Kazakhstan Bans Face Coverings, Muslim Women Asked To Embrace National Style

[PartySick 172,545]

12 minutes ago, RaveMonster said:

This is exactly why many western societies are going backwards because people just don’t see how giving more power to the government is the one way ticket go fascism. History has proven this to be a thing.

Just because something is wrong doesn’t mean it should be illegal. 

Government has to be empowered to provide services to the people but not to dictate people's lives.

Also, we're all ignoring the fact that this law isn't even being enacted to empower women, it's being enacted 'cause headdresses prevent the government from collecting scans for facial recognition databases which itself has a million problems and concerns.

[PartySick 172,545]

3 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

I just think that them being free to choose between wearing and not wearing it is just bs cause they'll still feel pressured by society and their families. Think of a young woman who's forced to wear it not by the government but by her brainwashed mother. We have to consider the social pressure too.

This measure will eliminate even these cases. As a result many women will be empowered.

I hope you see where i come from but we can also agree to disagree 

I've seen where you're coming from for a while tbh I just disagree that it's government's place to disarm the pressure women face in their families and communities annnnnd I don't see how it's empowering when it's just a different set of men making their choices for them

We're gonna keep going in circles  

I guess agree to disagree 'cause otherwise we're gonna be making the same freaking points for a dozen pages

[RaveMonster 619]

9 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

I take context into account. For certain countries things like these are the only things that are gonna work and somehow emancipate women, even tho this measure was not taken for that reason.

I'm saying that if you support women you should see this as good news, period.

There’s nothing empowering about forcing a woman to wear or not wear a piece of clothing. 
 

You can agree with this ban and think it’s a good thing but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s a way of human rights infringement.  Us explaining this to you doesn’t mean we agree with women being oppressed.

[River 127,542]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

It's a pop forum, I'll leave my opinion as I please thank you  

The religion thing isn't even a part of it for me, it's the power trade and how giving a woman's autonomy to a different set of men is seen as empowering for some reason.

Like, Imma just keep saying it, we all agree it's wrong for men to dictate what women can or can't wear but then y'all approve of the men running the government telling women what they can or can't wear  

Even going as far as to say "they can't think for themselves" like...

Idk, make it make sense  

idk, if just one girl, one woman out of 10 billion muslims in the world doesn't want to wear it but she's forced, we need to fight for her.

The worst thing about oppression is that the outside society is assuming that it's a choice, just because all we hear about is that it is actually a choice. 

we can't know what's really happening to each individual.

Also Kazakhstan is not really a democracy, it is a democratic republic on paper, but the system there is very close to Egypt, it may be bad or good, but it's kinda the best option at the moment in such a fragile country.. we saw what happened when we tried to impose democracy in countries who's not ready for it.

[PartySick 172,545]

3 minutes ago, River said:

The worst thing about oppression is that the outside society is assuming that it's a choice, just because all we hear about is that it is actually a choice. 

Well, it's certainly not a choice anymore

[RaveMonster 619]

10 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Government has to be empowered to provide services to the people but not to dictate people's lives.

Also, we're all ignoring the fact that this law isn't even being enacted to empower women, it's being enacted 'cause headdresses prevent the government from collecting scans for facial recognition databases which itself has a million problems and concerns.

It doesn’t make any sense.

Let’s liberate women from men by letting men make a law that prohibits them from wearing a piece of clothing that is important to them… okay? Hello?

Also the way no one has accused anyone of being Islamophobic…

I’m all in for safety and security but making it illegal to not have your face out is a bit insane. I really can’t get behind a government that just  tells me or anyone what to wear and that’s already a thing here in western countries if you think about nudity having different standards for men and women 

[PartySick 172,545]

2 minutes ago, RaveMonster said:

It doesn’t make any sense.

Let’s liberate women from men by letting men make a law that prohibits them from wearing a piece of clothing that is important to them… okay? Hello?

Also the way no one has accused anyone of being Islamophobic…

I’m all in for safety and security but making it illegal to not have your face out is a bit insane. I really can’t get behind a government that just  tells me or anyone what to wear and that’s already a thing here in western countries if you think about nudity having different standards for men and women 

Are we gonna turn this into a "free the nipple" thing? 'Cause I'm here for it  

There are absolutely better ways to empower women than to remove a choice from them and this law wasn't even written with that goal in mind anyway.

[RaveMonster 619]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

Are we gonna turn this into a "free the nipple" thing? 'Cause I'm here for it  

There are absolutely better ways to empower women than to remove a choice from them and this law wasn't even written with that goal in mind anyway.

And Kazakhstan is probably one of the most relaxed Muslim countries anyway. They literally have pageants and send a queen to miss universe. This is targeting a small group of the population 

[River 127,542]

21 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Well, it's certainly not a choice anymore

choice is overrated anyway 

We saw what people did with their freedom to choose who to vote for 

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

4 hours ago, Oriane said:

The problem is that laws like this will only punish the women in question, not the men enforcing this culture. Freedom can't be achieved with restriction.

Ding ding ding! 

But all the freedom fighters who think this is great will be screeching when the same governments restrict their access to something they consider a right. 

 

[Sepsami 20,977]

5 hours ago, PopMusicForever said:

It’s getting tiring when Christianity gets all the **** from the liberal western people but not Islam when Islam is 1000 times worse when it comes to human rights and everything else.

As queer people respecting Islam in any way or shape in my opinion is degrading yourself to the worst point. It is worse than Christianism by far and its believers are the worse and bunch of ignorants who will do anything to spread their religion in every corner.

im Muslim technically and in no shape or form I respect it. Seeing it close by it is by far way worse than any other religion.

This 100% 

The gays that are fighting the fight on the side of Islam should spend a month living in Brussels 

[Sarah H 4,376]

1 hour ago, SHALLOW said:

Forbidding to dress them that way actually gives them way more options and freedom than just wearing one thing that completely deletes them as people.

They're not be aware cause they've been brainwashed but I'm sure that can't be good for a person and I'm sure science and psychology  support what I'm saying.

Thank you. You get it. 

[RaveMonster 619]

2 minutes ago, Sepsami said:

This 100% 

The gays that are fighting the fight on the side of Islam should spend a month living in Brussels 

Just because gay people think Muslims should be able to practice their religion doesn’t mean  they have to agree with everything their religion says. 

Christianity is usually more tolerant nowadays because we made progress. They were burning women at the stake not too long ago. If we can judge every Christian individually and based only on their own beliefs then we can do the same with Muslims.

[Bronco 25,131]

5 hours ago, PopMusicForever said:

But only Islam forces them to cover tho. Come on now.

Not true. 

Almost every religion enforces some form of "decency" restrictions on women. 

E.g. orthodox judasim has women cover their hair after marriage to show their status as a man's property.

Christian veiling exists, its just out of fashion in the west. But there's a reason nuns, all female saints etc are seen in veils. Female veiling is set out in Genesis. 

The only reason why Islamic veiling is seen as so prevelant is because of the number of islamic dictatorships and authoritarians. Most western dictatorships have eschewed religion and focused on personal leadership cults rather than relying on a religious mythos hence the higher rate of secularism 

[Sepsami 20,977]

54 minutes ago, RaveMonster said:

Just because gay people think Muslims should be able to practice their religion doesn’t mean  they have to agree with everything their religion says. 

Christianity is usually more tolerant nowadays because we made progress. They were burning women at the stake not too long ago. If we can judge every Christian individually and based only on their own beliefs then we can do the same with Muslims.

No one is advocating for muslims not being able to practice though  it's just the facial veil that is being outlawed in some countries, to which I really don't see the issue. Every other type of cover is still allowed.