Kazakhstan Bans Face Coverings, Muslim Women Asked To Embrace National Style

[SHALLOW 16,469]

Just now, PartySick said:

This whole part right heeeere.

I genuinely don't understand how "my husband tells me to dress this way" is bad (which we can all agree on) but "my government forbids me from dressing this way" is...good?  

Like, what part of that is empowering to women? Is it that the men dictating what they can and can't do are elected officials rather than members of their families or communities?

Forbidding to dress them that way actually gives them way more options and freedom than just wearing one thing that completely deletes them as people.

They're not be aware cause they've been brainwashed but I'm sure that can't be good for a person and I'm sure science and psychology  support what I'm saying.

[PartySick 172,545]

Just now, SHALLOW said:

 

In every other country imposing certain dress codes would have been a problem but in this context it's actually something positive.

It's all about context. This is not ideal but if it's what it takes i honestly support this singular decision. Ofc I'm sure i won't agree with the other possible decisions they've made and are going to make but i see this one as a silver lining

I think things like this will just see a negative blowback.

Similar to how fighting terrorism with violence only creates more terrorism, laws like this will just cause certain communities to feel even more isolated and victimized which just exacerbates the problems at their core.

The enemy of religion isn't prohibition, it's knowledge, freedom, and connection with communities outside the one you were raised in.

[Horny Chicken 10,935]

We don’t live in an ideal world. All our actions have consequences, regardless of our intentions. Look at the bigger picture and consider the context. 

My hyper religious dad turned one of our big houses into a church, old people find company here. The consequence? Many of the kids here don’t complete secondary education because God will just fix everything. 
 

On this topic of Kazakhstan, we have to weigh the overall benefits and drawbacks for this particular country. And I think the women have more to gain from this. 

[SHALLOW 16,469]

2 minutes ago, RaveMonster said:

Literally no one has said they support women being oppressed y'all need to either read slower or cut it out because no one is saying that.

We’re concerned the government can just tell you want you can wear and not. 

 

There's just an incredible inconsistency then. You guys have to make a choice!

Nah, you guys are saying that women should be allowed to think like that. They simply don't know better as they're uneducated and brainwashed. We can't allow a small portion of women to dictate the oppression of many other women who don't want to wear that f***ing veil.

I'm not for governments forcing stuff either but I'm just saying this will end up being very positive even if it's morally wrong to force stuff on people 

[RaveMonster 613]

8 minutes ago, PartySick said:

This whole part right heeeere.

I genuinely don't understand how "my husband tells me to dress this way" is bad (which we can all agree on) but "my government forbids me from dressing this way" is...good?  

Like, what part of that is empowering to women? Is it that the men dictating what they can and can't do are elected officials rather than members of their families or communities?

This is exactly why many western societies are going backwards because people just don’t see how giving more power to the government is the one way ticket go fascism. History has proven this to be a thing.

Just because something is wrong doesn’t mean it should be illegal. 

[River 127,505]

13 minutes ago, RaveMonster said:

You need to stop telling gay people how they should feel about a topic just because they are gay. This topic doesn’t even involve gay people. 

No one in this thread is fighting for women to be oppressed, people are concerned about governments creating laws that go against basic human rights.

Also women are oppressed everywhere. No one lives in a country where women don’t have to dress a certain way based on their gender.

This is clearly a slippery slope regarding human rights and you can’t just you’re trying to paint everyone here as bigots when people are just showing concern about clear authoritarianism. 

No 

[SHALLOW 16,469]

8 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I think things like this will just see a negative blowback.

Similar to how fighting terrorism with violence only creates more terrorism, laws like this will just cause certain communities to feel even more isolated and victimized which just exacerbates the problems at their core.

The enemy of religion isn't prohibition, it's knowledge, freedom, and connection with communities outside the one you were raised in.

Nah women literally don't have power there so they can't do anything, especially since they're so submissive that they want to keel wearing it.

However so many women will be incredibly free and empowered and that's what's important.

You keep talking about knowledge and education. Do you realize which country we're talking about? Unfortunately they're incredibly limited and culture won't change without forced measures. Culture is incredibly difficult to change and religion practices are incredibly difficult to eradicate. This is the only thing that would work, especially in those countries.

By using your logic, these people will never be motivated to change and nothing will change for hundreds of years. Having these kinds of disruptions for cultures that are so unwilling to change and progress is a good thing. People will have the opportunity to experience life differently and see that not wearing a veil is not that bad after all

[RaveMonster 613]

3 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

There's just an incredible inconsistency then. You guys have to make a choice!

Nah, you guys are saying that women should be allowed to think like that. They simply don't know better as they're uneducated and brainwashed. We can't allow a small portion of women to dictate the oppression of many other women who don't want to wear that f***ing veil.

I'm not for governments forcing stuff either but I'm just saying this will end up being very positive even if it's morally wrong to force stuff on people 

I’m sorry but you’re literally contradicting yourself.
 

You’re telling us we are inconsistent and that we need to make up our minds but you’re the one saying oppression is wrong but a but of oppression by the government is good. 
 

You’re not making any sense and you’re also putting words in our mouths. No one is saying we should force women to wear face coverings. Those women aren’t even forcing other women to wear face coverings. You’re making up an scenario that doesn’t exist.

Those women are brainwashed but so is every woman who can’t walk around topless with her nipples showing when men can do it basically everywhere.

[RaveMonster 613]

4 minutes ago, River said:

No 

I guess “no” is all you can come up with considering you were not making any sense. 

[River 127,505]

23 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Yes, Iran is a great example of religious extremism. It's also probably the most extreme example of zealotry along side Israel and the American alt-right  and I find it ridiculous to say "Iran has an Islamic dictatorship therefore all ONE BILLION Muslims in the world have inherently evil beliefs that should be suppressed by their respective governments".

Above all else I'll always support people making their own choices.

Like I said, the government should be empowering these women and giving them space to leave their religious fanaticism if they choose to.

They shouldn't be replacing "your husband commands you to wear this" with "your government forbids you from wearing this".

I think we as men should just not intervene in these kind of situations, because in some sense, we all here, basically, told women what to do, how to react, what is good and what is bad for them 

Also, everyone here sees it from an "islamphobic" point of view, and it is wrong, because it's happening in a mulsim majority country and by muslims, so in some sense, it's their fight only.. it's not happning from Muslim hate, like in the US or Europe where Muslims are oppressed or hated, it's totally different.

[SHALLOW 16,469]

1 minute ago, RaveMonster said:

I’m sorry but you’re literally contradicting yourself.
 

You’re telling us we are inconsistent and that we need to make up our minds but you’re the one saying oppression is wrong but a but of oppression by the government is good. 
 

You’re not making any sense and you’re also putting words in our mouths. No one is saying we should force women to wear face coverings. Those women aren’t even forcing other women to wear face coverings. You’re making up an scenario that doesn’t exist.

Those women are brainwashed but so is every woman who can’t walk around topless with her nipples showing when men can do it basically everywhere.

I take context into account. For certain countries things like these are the only things that are gonna work and somehow emancipate women, even tho this measure was not taken for that reason.

I'm saying that if you support women you should see this as good news, period.

[River 127,505]

Just now, RaveMonster said:

I guess “no” is all you can come up with considering you were not making any sense. 

k 

[PartySick 172,545]

Just now, SHALLOW said:

Nah women literally don't have power there so they can't do anything, especially since they're so submissive that they want to keel wearing it.

However so many women will be incredibly free and empowered and that's what's important.

You keep talking about knowledge and education. Do you realize which country we're talking about? Unfortunately they're incredibly limited and culture won't change without forced measures. Culture is incredibly difficult to change and religion practices are incredibly difficult to eradicate. This is the only thing that would work, especially in those countries.

I don't think you're giving people enough credit tbh. 

Like I said, silly laws like this will only isolate communities as they entrench themselves out of defiance to unjust government rules but the best way to break the hold religion has on someone is to connect people with others who think differently. Those connections will be a little harder to make now.

9 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

They simply don't know better as they're uneducated and brainwashed. We can't allow a small portion of women to dictate the oppression of many other women who don't want to wear that f***ing veil.

Sis I'm begging you to see there are three options here:

1) Women are forced to wear head coverings

2) Women are forbidden from wearing head coverings

3) Women are free to wear what they want

And we are advocating for the third option  you don't get to say "they can't think for themselves so we get to dictate what they do" 'cause it makes you JUST AS BAD as the extremist men that won't let them leave the house without an approved outfit.

[PartySick 172,545]

1 minute ago, River said:

I think we as men should just not intervene in these kind of situations, because in some sense, we all here, basically, told women what to do, how to react, what is good and what is bad for them 

Also, everyone here sees it from an "islamphobic" point of view, and it is wrong, because it's happening in a mulsim majority country and by muslims, so in some sense, it's their fight only.. it's not happning from Muslim hate, like in the US or Europe where Muslims are oppressed or hated, it's totally different.

It's a pop forum, I'll leave my opinion as I please thank you  

The religion thing isn't even a part of it for me, it's the power trade and how giving a woman's autonomy to a different set of men is seen as empowering for some reason.

Like, Imma just keep saying it, we all agree it's wrong for men to dictate what women can or can't wear but then y'all approve of the men running the government telling women what they can or can't wear  

Even going as far as to say "they can't think for themselves" like...

Idk, make it make sense  

[SHALLOW 16,469]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I don't think you're giving people enough credit tbh. 

Like I said, silly laws like this will only isolate communities as they entrench themselves out of defiance to unjust government rules but the best way to break the hold religion has on someone is to connect people with others who think differently. Those connections will be a little harder to make now.

Sis I'm begging you to see there are three options here:

1) Women are forced to wear head coverings

2) Women are forbidden from wearing head coverings

3) Women are free to wear what they want

And we are advocating for the third option  you don't get to say "they can't think for themselves so we get to dictate what they do" 'cause it makes you JUST AS BAD as the extremist men that won't let them leave the house without an approved outfit.

I just think that them being free to choose between wearing and not wearing it is just bs cause they'll still feel pressured by society and their families. Think of a young woman who's forced to wear it not by the government but by her brainwashed mother. We have to consider the social pressure too.

This measure will eliminate even these cases. As a result many women will be empowered.

I hope you see where i come from but we can also agree to disagree