Kazakhstan Bans Face Coverings, Muslim Women Asked To Embrace National Style

[Dancerinthedark95 341]

So if you want to cover your face then move out from Kazakhstan??? I can't go to Middle East and even kiss my bf without being punished lol

[River 127,505]

7 minutes ago, PartySick said:

And y'all gay men that assume a woman that chooses to embrace her culture and religion must be oppressed and unable to think or act for herself so she needs the government to forbid her from wearing a headdress to liberate her should also take a seat  

The women in Iran who were murdered because they didn't want to be covered says hello from the grave.

To be born into a religion is not a choice in the first place, your own religious choices are made after you've been brainwashed since you are a kid.

A young girl who's still in primary school is not choosing to cover herself, she's forced into.

Like was it my choice to have a circumcision? no. it was forced on my parents to do this to me because of religion.

 

We can go in this circle as much as you want but these women are oppressed and their "choice" is not a genuine one. 

Religion is a cult after all.

[NUTELLA 26,830]

A thread for whiplash

[PartySick 172,545]

4 minutes ago, River said:

The women in Iran who were murdered because they didn't want to be covered says hello from the grave.

To be born into a religion is not a choice in the first place, your own religious choices are made after you've been brainwashed since you are a kid.

A young girl who's still in primary school is not choosing to cover herself, she's forced into.

Like was it my choice to have a circumcision? no. it was forced on my parents to do this to me because of religion.

 

We can go in this circle as much as you want but these women are oppressed and their "choice" is not a genuine one. 

Religion is a cult after all.

We're not talking about Iran, we're talking about Kazakhstan. And for the second time in this thread, mutilating someone's body is completely different from allowing someone to wear what they want

I grew up in a Baptist household, regularly got my ass beat by deeply devout adults in the name of the lord for the stupidest reasons and we're all watching as religious nut jobs elect people who are erasing decades of progress. I know religion is f*cked. But outlawing religious expression will only entrench those beliefs deeper into the people that hold them 'cause now they're martyrs.

You don't outlaw religious expression. The government should be writing laws that help protect women who willingly walk away from more harmful practices and investing in community outreach and welfare programs. They can't make those decisions FOR those women, that is quite literally the definition of oppression, or at least adjacent to it  

Besides, like @Oriane said, the only people who'll be facing any kind of persecution from the government due to these laws will be women. And now, it's not members of their own community or family telling them what to wear, it's their government. Idk how y'all think that's progress  

[River 127,505]

Just now, PartySick said:

We're not talking about Iran, we're talking about Kazakhstan. And for the second time in this thread, mutilating someone's body is completely different from allowing someone to wear what they want

I grew up in a Baptist household, regularly got my ass beat by deeply devout adults in the name of the lord for the stupidest reasons and we're all watching as religious nut jobs elect people who are erasing decades of progress. I know religion is f*cked. But outlawing religious expression will only entrench those beliefs deeper into the people that hold them 'cause now they're martyrs.

You don't outlaw religious expression. The government should be writing laws that help protect women who willingly walk away from more harmful practices and investing in community outreach and welfare programs. They can't make those decisions FOR those women, that is quite literally the definition of oppression, or at least adjacent to it  

Besides, like @Oriane said, the only people who'll be facing any kind of persecution from the government due to these laws will be women. And now, it's not members of their own community or family telling them what to wear, it's their government. Idk how y'all think that's progress  

Then why you're talking like it's happening in a western country? it's not, it's happening in Kazakhstan, a developing country, with a muslim majority, with a muslim prime minister, the goverment always control the religion there and has to control religion there to prevent extremism, it's a time bomb like in every developing country, in every moment an extremist can rise and take them over. 

Iran IS the best example of oppression and you can't throw it away in one sentence.

"expression" "embrace" and all these beautiful words don't exist in religion.

Ya'll don't understand the abrahamic religions and how f-cked up they and how little choices you have and how easily you get erased by your own family and community if you don't follow the religion practices!!! 

 

you can't dance in both weddings and expect different results, you either full time against religion at all cost or you don't and just let it control our lives and then cry when they use it against you, which they do, every single day.

[SHALLOW 16,469]

40 minutes ago, PartySick said:

And y'all gay men that assume a woman that chooses to embrace her culture and religion must be oppressed and unable to think or act for herself so she needs the government to forbid her from wearing a headdress to liberate her should also take a seat  

They are oppressed. They just accepted it and have literally been brainwashed into thinking that's what their God wants from them. 

Unfortunately these countries are poorly educated and things are unlikely to change so if this is what it takes for them to progress and have better lives then I'm happy for them. Think about how many young women won't have to go through all that. I'm sure they'll end up being much more open minded than older women who just accepted that cause they've been living with that for so many years. 

I just can't understand how do you guys not agree that it's a good thing. Sure, it is an obligation but at the end of the day the result is going to be positive and in those countries you don't get that many opportunities to progress as as society so we should be happy about this.

[PartySick 172,545]

3 minutes ago, River said:

Then why you're talking like it's happening in a western country? it's not, it's happening in Kazakhstan, a developing country, with a muslim majority, with a muslim prime minister, the goverment always control the religion there and has to control religion there to prevent extremism, it's a time bomb like in every developing country, in every moment an extremist can rise and take them over. 

Iran IS the best example of oppression and you can't throw it away in one sentence.

"expression" "embrace" and all these beautiful words don't exist in religion.

Ya'll don't understand the abrahamic religions and how f-cked up they and how little choices you have and how easily you get erased by your own family and community if you don't follow the religion practices!!! 

 

you can't dance in both weddings and expect different results, you either full time against religion at all cost or you don't and just let it control our lives and then cry when they use it against you, which they do, every single day.

Yes, Iran is a great example of religious extremism. It's also probably the most extreme example of zealotry along side Israel and the American alt-right  and I find it ridiculous to say "Iran has an Islamic dictatorship therefore all ONE BILLION Muslims in the world have inherently evil beliefs that should be suppressed by their respective governments".

Above all else I'll always support people making their own choices.

Like I said, the government should be empowering these women and giving them space to leave their religious fanaticism if they choose to.

They shouldn't be replacing "your husband commands you to wear this" with "your government forbids you from wearing this".

[SHALLOW 16,469]

You guys have to stand up by your values.

If you support women, you can't support these oppressive practices, PERIOD.

[PartySick 172,545]

1 minute ago, SHALLOW said:

They are oppressed. They just accepted it and have literally been brainwashed into thinking that's what their God wants from them. 

Unfortunately these countries are poorly educated and things are unlikely to change so if this is what it takes for them to progress and have better lives then I'm happy for them. Think about how many young women won't have to go through all that. I'm sure they'll end up being much more open minded than older women who just accepted that cause they've been living with that for so many years. 

I just can't understand how do you guys not agree that it's a good thing. Sure, it is an obligation but at the end of the day the result is going to be positive and in those countries you don't get that many opportunities to progress as as society so we should be happy about this.

It is not the government's place to make that decision for them.

I don't understand how you guys don't see the glaring hypocrisy in what you're saying  

You're just replacing one master (husband, patriarch) with another (the government). 

That does nothing to liberate women.

[SHALLOW 16,469]

5 minutes ago, PartySick said:

It is not the government's place to make that decision for them.

I don't understand how you guys don't see the glaring hypocrisy in what you're saying  

You're just replacing one master (husband, patriarch) with another (the government). 

That does nothing to liberate women.

It's called a silver lining. Their intention may not be good but the results will be.

I wish the same for my country. Italy is supposed to be a lay country and yet religion is everywhere. Churces don't pay taxes and the Vatican can do whatever it wants, even kill people and hide it. They're incredibly priviliged and i wish someone would do something about it even tho Christians would hate it. 

If it's what it takes to eliminate that stupid, harmful practice, then I'm all for it. 

[RaveMonster 613]

1 hour ago, River said:

Kazakhstan is a country with Muslim majority, you gays should see it as a progress.

I feel like people who comes from Christian countries where the oppression on women and what they wear and were their place in the world is doesn't exist, don't understand how these laws are actually liberating women, even if their reasons are bad.

Judaism is as oppressive as Islam, orthodox women needs to wear a wig or cover their faces, to wear long clothes, all this and all that, like just imagine yourself covering all your body during the current heat wave please.

 

Ya'll gay men fighting for women for their "right" to be oppressed, are much worst than the muslim man who wears chill clothes near his covered wife on a summer day, take a seat and let women fight for themselves.

You need to stop telling gay people how they should feel about a topic just because they are gay. This topic doesn’t even involve gay people. 

No one in this thread is fighting for women to be oppressed, people are concerned about governments creating laws that go against basic human rights.

Also women are oppressed everywhere. No one lives in a country where women don’t have to dress a certain way based on their gender.

This is clearly a slippery slope regarding human rights and you can’t just you’re trying to paint everyone here as bigots when people are just showing concern about clear authoritarianism. 

[PartySick 172,545]

1 minute ago, SHALLOW said:

It's called a silver lining. Their intention may not be good but the results will be.

I wish the same for my country. Italy should be a lay country and yet religion js everywhere. Churces don't pay taxes and the Vatican can do whatever it wants, even kill people and hide it. They're incredibly priviliged and i wish someone would do something about jt even tho Christians would hate it. 

I just cannot get behind that kind of thinking tbh.

I don't f*ck with the government being allowed to tell you what you can and can't wear, do, say, believe, etc.

Any time I've wanted religion to disappear it's about been about hoping society itself would progress and abandon the fairytales and backwards thinking. Not once have I ever thought it'd be right for laws to be made outlawing those beliefs and cultural practices.

That's where our disconnect lies

[SHALLOW 16,469]

1 minute ago, RaveMonster said:

You need to stop telling gay people how they should feel about a topic just because they are gay. This topic doesn’t even involve gay people. 

No one in this thread is fighting for women to be oppressed, people are concerned about governments creating laws that go against basic human rights.

Also women are oppressed everywhere. No one lives in a country where women don’t have to dress a certain way based on their gender.

This is clearly a slippery slope regarding human rights and you can’t just you’re trying to paint everyone here as bigots when people are just showing concern about clear authoritarianism. 

 

Just now, PartySick said:

I just cannot get behind that kind of thinking tbh.

I don't f*ck with the government being allowed to tell you what you can and can't wear, do, say, believe, etc.

Any time I've wanted religion to disappear it's about been about hoping society itself would progress and abandon the fairytales and backwards thinking. Not once have I ever thought it'd be right for laws to be made outlawing those beliefs and cultural practices.

That's where our disconnect lies

In every other country imposing certain dress codes would have been a problem but in this context it's actually something positive.

It's all about context. This is not ideal but if it's what it takes i honestly support this singular decision. Ofc I'm sure i won't agree with the other possible decisions they've made and are going to make but i see this one as a silver lining

[PartySick 172,545]

1 minute ago, RaveMonster said:

No one in this thread is fighting for women to be oppressed, people are concerned about governments creating laws that go against basic human rights.

This whole part right heeeere.

I genuinely don't understand how "my husband tells me to dress this way" is bad (which we can all agree on) but "my government forbids me from dressing this way" is...good?  

Like, what part of that is empowering to women? Is it that the men dictating what they can and can't do are elected officials rather than members of their families or communities?

[RaveMonster 613]

8 minutes ago, SHALLOW said:

You guys have to stand up by your values.

If you support women, you can't support these oppressive practices, PERIOD.

Literally no one has said they support women being oppressed y'all need to either read slower or cut it out because no one is saying that.

We’re concerned the government can just tell you want you can wear and not.