Beyonce didn’t want to do “Telephone”, because it was Techno-Pop

[Ladle Ghoulash 22,660]

2 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

I think it was probably more hurried shorthand for like electronically dance-y

Yeah, but I still wouldn’t say the production was/is far off from something like Sweet Dreams, so I think it’s just kind of funny (and, ultimately, trivial) that she saw it as something different for her lol.

[Ziggy 11,658]

Honestly for the best. The switch up takes the song to the next level and that variety was smart to showcase both women in their respective strengths and cohesion. Darkchild did his biiiiiig one (among many) with telephone

[Future Lovers 6,851]

7 hours ago, tlittlemonster said:

Well Gaga's roots are electro dance really so what did you expect her to do?

Gaga also stayed true to herself

When it's Beyoncé doing country, it's revolutionary and staying true to herself, when it's Gaga, it's not being able to be authentic haha

1. Gaga didn’t really do country. She put on a cowboy hat and did some southern heartland soft rock songs. 

2. Beyonce isn’t doing country for the hell of it. She did it as one album of a three act project in which she, a black artist, reclaims genres that originated with black musicians but were appropriated and stolen by white artists. 

3. Beyonce grew up in Texas surrounded by and appreciating country music from the time she was a child. 

Google is so free. It is not a chore to brush up on some context and history to understand the chasm of difference between Beyonce making a country album and Gaga making a not-quite country album. 

One is cultural and historical commentary. The other was an aesthetic. 

[Ziggy 11,658]

1 minute ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Yeah, but I still wouldn’t say the production was/is far off from something like Sweet Dreams, so I think it’s just kind of funny (and, ultimately, trivial) that she saw it as something different for her lol.

Right hahahahaha I think she’s really scrutinizing about what she sings on (since I feel like she starts her artistic process with demos or songs and then builds on them or removes, etc.).

it reminds me of when she first heard say my name (also dark child!) and said it sounded too jungle and it wouldn’t work. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 22,660]

9 minutes ago, Future Lovers said:

1. Gaga didn’t really do country. She put on a cowboy hat and did some southern heartland soft rock songs. 

2. Beyonce isn’t doing country for the hell of it. She did it as one album of a three act project in which she, a black artist, reclaims genres that originated with black musicians but were appropriated and stolen by white artists. 

3. Beyonce grew up in Texas surrounded by and appreciating country music from the time she was a child. 

Google is so free. It is not a chore to brush up on some context and history to understand the chasm of difference between Beyonce making a country album and Gaga making a not-quite country album. 

One is cultural and historical commentary. The other was an aesthetic. 

Tbf Beyoncé also isn’t really doing “country” either in the *strictly* traditional sense. It’s certainly a progressive country record (given that it includes a lot of southern rock influence, trap influence, hip/hop + rnb influence, psychedelic/funk influence etc.).  I’ve never really understood this talking point that Joanne isn’t “country” because of genre eclecticism, whereas CC is unquestionably country in spite of genre eclecticism.

I understand the cultural significance of Beyoncé stepping into a country space and am not saying she isn’t modernizing it and also centering the genre in its roots, but I just think the discourse surrounding the genre (which, ironically, based on the interludes, Beyoncé probably views as somewhat beside the point because she seems pretty intent on blowing up conventional genre demarcation) is kind of dizzying and contradictory.

I see no reason to either invalidate it as legitimate country nor to insist on the orthodoxy that it’s somehow the benchmark of modern country lol. It’s a progressive country pop record and I agree that Joanne isn’t strictly a “country” record (Americana is probably a bit more accurate), but it also definitely is rooted in elements of both traditional and contemporary country/southern rock. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:09 PM by Ladle Ghoulash

[nATAH 48,054]

i think the real question here is: what was so stressful about recording this song? was it the quick turn around of getting beyonce on in time?

gaga spoke about how stressful it was making this song 

[HermesG 1,557]

I wish she will do the continuation with another female can't stand her n her attitude at all 

[tlittlemonster 1,475]

1 hour ago, Future Lovers said:

1. Gaga didn’t really do country. She put on a cowboy hat and did some southern heartland soft rock songs. 

2. Beyonce isn’t doing country for the hell of it. She did it as one album of a three act project in which she, a black artist, reclaims genres that originated with black musicians but were appropriated and stolen by white artists. 

3. Beyonce grew up in Texas surrounded by and appreciating country music from the time she was a child. 

Google is so free. It is not a chore to brush up on some context and history to understand the chasm of difference between Beyonce making a country album and Gaga making a not-quite country album. 

One is cultural and historical commentary. The other was an aesthetic. 

The art police is here everybody!

[Pandacadabra 9,006]

1 hour ago, Future Lovers said:

Google is so free. It is not a chore to brush up on some context and history to understand the chasm of difference between Beyonce making a country album and Gaga making a not-quite country album. 

One is cultural and historical commentary. The other was an aesthetic.

So when Gaga made songs like Sinner's Prayer or Joanne or Million Reasons, its "not quite country" and Beyonce mixing genres that doesnt sound country is a country album? Okay, thats your opinion anyway.

Gaga talking about her family and her own life is demeaned to just an aesthetic but Beyonce who hasnt done "Country" before is cultural. 

[Ziggy 11,658]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Tbf Beyoncé also isn’t really doing “country” either in the *strictly* traditional sense. It’s certainly a progressive country record (given that it includes a lot of southern rock influence, trap influence, hip/hop + rnb influence, psychedelic/funk influence etc.).  I’ve never really understood this talking point that Joanne isn’t “country” because of genre eclecticism, whereas CC is unquestionably country in spite of genre eclecticism.

I understand the cultural significance of Beyoncé stepping into a country space and am not saying she isn’t modernizing it and also centering the genre in its roots, but I just think the discourse surrounding the genre (which, ironically, based on the interludes, Beyoncé probably views as somewhat beside the point because she seems pretty intent on blowing up conventional genre demarcation) is kind of dizzying and contradictory.

I see no reason to either invalidate it as legitimate country nor to insist on the orthodoxy that it’s somehow the benchmark of modern country lol. It’s a progressive country pop record and I agree that Joanne isn’t strictly a “country” record (Americana is probably a bit more accurate), but it also definitely is rooted in elements of both traditional and contemporary country/southern rock. 

I think with CC people didn't listen to the thesis of the album enough which basically used her foray into country inspirations as a means of saying that genre is largely limiting and not all that relevant, much to your point. it has nothing to do with whether she's country or not or to legitimize it; she's saying the question itself is patronizing and wrong and that genres historically have been used to box in black and female artists. she aint wrong!

[OliviaRodrigoStan 6,555]

6 hours ago, salty like sodium said:

I think it's also because Beyoncé didn't just do a country album, half the songs are hybrids between country and R&B and hip-hop, so that's probably what that person was staying.

But that's the thing: it wasn't an actual country album, and in it, she sounded the exact same as she did in literally any other song she recorded, ever . I understand Beyoncé fans are very passionate about her, and like to see her as this highly creative producer, "curator", etc, but the truth is she only does R&B Pop, and she only sounds like a R&B Pop artist . 

I see this idea that that she tried so many genres, and dominated all of them, repeated frequently by her audience, and... it isn't true at all . Beyoncé isn't recognized in any other genre besides radio pop and R&B . And there is no significant artistic shift in any of her projects, she sounds the same always, and she appeals to the exact same crowd, always . 

"Cowboy Carter" is a Beyoncé album like all the others, with a country twist, and that's about it . I think it's great that she plays with different sounds, and I'm glad her audience enjoys it, but to act like she legitimately is a genre-shifting act is delusional. She sounds R&B in every single song . 

She shops for different sounds because she's not a songwriter, therefore there is no "Beyoncé sound" she's tied to, so she can just get new writers to keep her brand fresh . Which is great, nothing wrong about being an interpreter. But her hopping from one writer to another, isn't musical innovation, because her main artistic input, which is her vocal delivery, is always the same . 

The one singular element that she brings to her records, doesn't change or evolve, ever. Her writers change, her artistic input stays the same. This isn't me demonizing her, one of my favorite artists of all time is Maria Callas, I do not think you HAVE to be a songwriter to be a remarkable musician . 

Beyoncé's vocal skills and performing abilities, are enough to make her an outstanding entertainer. I just don't see where the "innovator" narrative comes from. She hasn't done anything remarkable, ever, artistically wise, outside R&B and radio pop. 

The stylistic shift from "Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)"

and "Disease"

or between "Bad Romance"

and "The Lady Is A Tramp" 

or between "Moth To The Flame" 

and "Sound Of Music Tribute" 

Is much more significant musically wise than that found in Beyoncé's discography, because GaGa ~changes her interpretation~ when performing in different genres . She sings different, so it sounds different. 

Beyoncé always interprets and sings the same way, so whatever project she's on, always sounds R&B + whatever style her team of writers bring up . Again this isn't me saying: "Beyonce is trash because she can't write her own music, and is a one-note singer". 

Beyoncé as a vocalist is S+ at what she does, which is R&B, and she is a remarkable performer, she deserves her level of success . I simply cannot see where this "Beyoncé is an innovator, GaGa isn't quite there, but she has some variety too" discourse stems from . When GaGa shifts genres, the songs actually sound different, because she sings different; when Beyoncé "changes genres", the songs sound all the same, cause she performs them all the same way 

ON TOPIC: Well, I can see why she thought the song wouldn't fit her. Based on the Britney demo, I mean, yeah, it really is far detached from her brand . But I'm glad she joined the song in the end, she brought a new flavour to it, and made it quite special. She also looked amazing in the video 

[Ziggy 11,658]

27 minutes ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

But that's the thing: it wasn't an actual country album, and in it, she sounded the exact same as she did in literally any other song she recorded, ever . I understand Beyoncé fans are very passionate about her, and like to see her as this highly creative producer, "curator", etc, but the truth is she only does R&B Pop, and she only sounds like a R&B Pop artist . 

I see this idea that that she tried so many genres, and dominated all of them, repeated frequently by her audience, and... it isn't true at all . Beyoncé isn't recognized in any other genre besides radio pop and R&B . And there is no significant artistic shift in any of her projects, she sounds the same always, and she appeals to the exact same crowd, always . 

"Cowboy Carter" is a Beyoncé album like all the others, with a country twist, and that's about it . I think it's great that she plays with different sounds, and I'm glad her audience enjoys it, but to act like she legitimately is a genre-shifting act is delusional. She sounds R&B in every single song . 

She shops for different sounds because she's not a songwriter, therefore there is no "Beyoncé sound" she's tied to, so she can just get new writers to keep her brand fresh . Which is great, nothing wrong about being an interpreter. But her hopping from one writer to another, isn't musical innovation, because her main artistic input, which is her vocal delivery, is always the same . 

The one singular element that she brings to her records, doesn't change or evolve, ever. Her writers change, her artistic input stays the same. This isn't me demonizing her, one of my favorite artists of all time is Maria Callas, I do not think you HAVE to be a songwriter to be a remarkable musician . 

Beyoncé's vocal skills and performing abilities, are enough to make her an outstanding entertainer. I just don't see where the "innovator" narrative comes from. She hasn't done anything remarkable, ever, artistically wise, outside R&B and radio pop. 

The stylistic shift from "Eh, Eh (Nothing Else I Can Say)"

and "Disease"

or between "Bad Romance"

and "The Lady Is A Tramp" 

or between "Moth To The Flame" 

and "Sound Of Music Tribute" 

Is much more significant musically wise than that found in Beyoncé's discography, because GaGa ~changes her interpretation~ when performing in different genres . She sings different, so it sounds different. 

Beyoncé always interprets and sings the same way, so whatever project she's on, always sounds R&B + whatever style her team of writers bring up . Again this isn't me saying: "Beyonce is trash because she can't write her own music, and is a one-note singer". 

Beyoncé as a vocalist is S+ at what she does, which is R&B, and she is a remarkable performer, she deserves her level of success . I simply cannot see where this "Beyoncé is an innovator, GaGa isn't quite there, but she has some variety too" discourse stems from . When GaGa shifts genres, the songs actually sound different, because she sings different; when Beyoncé "changes genres", the songs sound all the same, cause she performs them all the same way 

ON TOPIC: Well, I can see why she thought the song wouldn't fit her. Based on the Britney demo, I mean, yeah, it really is far detached from her brand . But I'm glad she joined the song in the end, she brought a new flavour to it, and made it quite special. She also looked amazing in the video 

If you think No Angel sounds one thing like Texas Hold ‘Em idk what to tell you lmao Gaga’s voice is insanely theatrical, true. So she can really change many qualities of her voice but that’s not really the determinant of going into a genre. If we’re being 100, Gaga has basically only “conquered” dance pop. Not even jazz bc her jazz is sooooo surface level. It’s no shade to her I LOVE it but my point is pop stans love to pit these women against one another when they have way more in common than different. They both tour in genres that aren’t their home to varying degrees. Beyoncé’s genre conquering, to me, is more in that she knows enough about them to splice these songs up and make disparate sounds work. It’s not I’m going into silos like you’re implying she’d need to. She isn’t even saying that’s her effort but yall wanna box her in like that when she’s saying IN SPOKEN WORD in the album CC that she’s not sticking to genre convention. 
 

Pop fans need to tread sooooo lightly when talking about who can do what genres bc most times they barely know a thing about anything but pop, if even that
 

[OliviaRodrigoStan 6,555]

3 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

If we’re being 100, Gaga has basically only “conquered” dance pop.

I agree, I think GaGa is a remarkable Pop musician and that's it, I don't think she is this huge name in any other genre . But same is true about Beyonce, whom is way less versatile in her actual artistic delivery, hence why I don't understand her fanbase's insistence of claiming she is an innovator . 

Beyoncé does not write her music, she only interprets it, and her delivery is the exact same in every song, where is the versatility? . She hasn't "conquered" anything, nobody outside of her hardcore fanbase associates her with any genre besides R&B and mainstream pop. Because she has not released any artistically significant production, outside of R&B and mainstream pop, ever .

If you guys in her fandom enjoy her albums, that's amazing. But not a single one of those "genre conquering" productions, actually meant anything for those genres, hence why her fanbase never expanded beyond her established demographic. Pop fans and commercial R&B fans are the only audience she has, because that's the only genre she ever "conquered" to some extent . 

I'm fine with GaGa being an S+ Pop songwriter and performer, and just an ok act in other fields . I just don't get why Beyoncé fans chose delusion, and keep telling themselves that she holds artistic merits that she doesn't . 

Is she an amazing vocalist? yes, is she a great, charismatic live performer? yes. Is she relevant outside R&B or Pop music? no . She's pretty limited actually, in terms of artistic range. 

She's excellent at the things she does, which is singing and dancing, and then her actual music sounds largely the same, and is heavily reliant on her writers team's abilitiy to make it work for her . It's ok to love her and appreciate her ~for that~ I don't understand the need to build this whole grandiouse discourse around her, when her music is out there for all to listen, and it sounds largely the same . 

She's hot, and rich, and has a beautiful voice, and is super successful, there's enough legitimately cool things about her to celebrate and brag about. I don't understand the need to be delusional and call her things that she's not . 

She's a wonderful gworl, but she's neither an innovator, nor is she a genre-conquering queen, I'm sorry, she sounds the exact same at everything she does, that's why she only appeals to the same people over and over . But if you want to see her as an innovator bestie, that's absolutely ok, we just disagree and that's it 

[50 Ft Queenie 284]

6 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Oh we’re doing the beyonce uneducated thing again…yall need to stfu. It’s an offhand comment she’s not a producer but there’s literally no way in hell you sing the variety of what she sings without having a firm and clear musical education of some kind formal or informal. Y’all pretentious as hell

Not really, I'm not a bey hater at all, I really enjoy her music. I'm  Pretty sure back then Bey didn't know what Berghain was, had a different idea of what ‘techno’ was, had not listened to ‘classics’ by aphex to get a idea of techno. Today, I'm sure she has massively evolved & knows all the things I mentioned & can tell the difference between techno pop, techno and house  I sure hope so 

Edited Wednesday at 01:11 AM by 50 Ft Queenie

[salty like sodium 1,790]

@OliviaRodrigoStan Ngl, I was both surprised and disappointed to read such a take from you because I've always found your contributions to be really insightful and informed in the past and this was just an unexpected change to that trend.  So let's unpack this piece by piece...

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

in it, she sounded the exact same as she did in literally any other song she recorded, ever .  [...] her main artistic input, which is her vocal delivery, is always the same

 Have you ever listened to a Beyoncé song?  I can name you five different songs, off the top of my head, that she sings in completely different ways: (1) Virgo's Groove (R&B croon + falsetto) (2) Daughter (Opera style singing) (3) Apeshit (rapping) (4) Otherside (chestier lower register) (5) I Care (belting + falsetto) (6) I'd Rather Go Blind cover (old-style belting)

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

she only does R&B Pop

Don't Hurt Yourself – blues/rock

Hold Up - reggae

7/11 - hip-hop/trap

16 Carriages - country

My Power - hip-hop, gqom and afrobeats

Virgo's Groove - disco/funk

Sandcastles - soul/ballad

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

Beyoncé isn't recognized in any other genre besides radio pop and R&B

Says who? 

Just based on Grammys alone: she has previously won in the following genres: Country, Dance/Electronic, Rap/Hip-Hop, Pop, R&B. She was further nominated in Rock, Americana and Rap categories (no victories though). She's probably the person who's been nominated across the most different genres at the ceremony.

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

And there is no significant artistic shift in any of her projects, she sounds the same always, and she appeals to the exact same crowd, always

The fact you even think that Lemonade and Cowboy Carter appeals to the same crowd is kind of whack.  I know so many people who didn't like Beyoncé because they're not into R&B who fell in love with Renaissance because it was primarily a dance/house/ballroom/disco revival album and then proceeded to hate Cowboy Carter because it was more country, Americana and ballad-driven with some elements of R&B. This is such a huge reach and sounds like it was written by someone who didn't listen to a single song from either project.  The mere suggestion Break My Soul and Texas Hold 'Em sound anything alike is just wild.

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

She sounds R&B in every single song

Her voice is her voice, each person has their own unique sound. If you put Adele on a Gaga track she would still sound like Adele, like this doesn't make sense?  Gaga sounds great on Jazz but her voice doesn't magically change on her pop tracks, the theatricality is still there, she's a theatre kid and it shows and that's precisely why we love her. If you can name artists who do have different voices in different genres, more power to you but... Each person's voice is unique, that's kind of the whole point of voices. 

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

She shops for different sounds because she's not a songwriter, therefore there is no "Beyoncé sound" she's tied to, so she can just get new writers to keep her brand fresh

Yes because clearly Joanne, Born This Way, Harlequin and Mayhem all sound exactly the same since Gaga is tied to a "Gaga sound".   I'm sorry what??  Also it's really presumptuous of you to assume she isn't a songwriter. Are you in the studio watching her to make that assessment? Are you reading the interviews of the people crediting her input in her own songs when you are making that assessment? Or are you just focusing on gossip read online? Just because she works collaboratively with other professionals doesn't mean she has nothing to bring to the table. It's quite insulting to call her "an interpreter" because it completely strips her of any creative agency in her music. As a reminder, this is a woman who founded her own record label so she could create music on her own terms, without label execs telling her what she was or wasn't allowed to record. She clearly is capable of having creative decisions of her own? You also act like most other artists in the industry write on their own when everyone has cowriters. Taylor Swift has worked with Jack Antonoff for like a decade now. Olivia Rodrigo is basically married to Dan Nigro and even Addison Rae had cowriters on every song on her album. It's extremely rare for artists to write their own material on their own for a wide variety of reasons.

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

I just don't see where the "innovator" narrative comes from. She hasn't done anything remarkable, ever, artistically wise, outside R&B and radio pop. 

What exactly would you consider "remarkable" in this specific career-type, exactly?  Among Beyoncé's most famous achievements, she has:

– Released a surprise album in 2013 on a Friday that was so impactful it literally changed the entire way music is released (new music used to be released on Tuesdays until this album, and then the entire industry shifted to Fridays)

– Released a film to accompany an album in 2016 that was both an exploration of grief and infidelity as well as black womanhood, black identity and racism

– Curated and released an Afrobeats-inspired album to coincide with the release of the Lion King, as well as an accompanying film that reimagines the Lion King's story through the lense of black identity and heritage

– In 2022, released a time capsule album that reclaimed genres that were pioneered by black queer artists, including disco, house and funk, and celebrated their contributions through innovative sampling.

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

[Gaga's stylistic shifts]

This feels really biased to be honest. (And unecessary? I don't get why we need to compare these two AGAIN. This is like the third time in as many days guys. )

Gaga is incredibly talented and sings beautifully but to claim she doesn't sound like the same person on each of those songs is a reach. Her voice is recognisable: it's her voice. That's why people who like it tend to also like her music in different genres. It's exactly the same thing, the only difference being that you like Gaga's voice/music and you don't like Beyoncé's...

You're also underplaying a lot of how the production, mixing, mastering and vocal stacking influences and impacts these songs. There are more overlapping voices in Bad Romance than in "Lady is a Tramp", for example, and even though she sings LIAT with a slight vintage accent, you're also comparing a song that's very high-pitched to one that's very low-pitched (of which Beyoncé also has many examples). Of course Gaga isn't going to sing the high-pitched chorus to LIAT the same way as she sings the medium-pitched chorus of Bad Romance, since her voice won't create those notes in the same register. LIAT probably uses more mix-area and head voice coordinations whereas in Bad Romance she can stay comfortably in her chest voice and belt area. When she sings "I don't wanna be friends... want your bad romance!" her voice is noticeably higher in Bad Romance and starts to sound like her singing in LIAT as a result.

Voices also evolve a lot over time, Gaga singing Eh Eh today wouldn't sound the same as Gaga singing Eh Eh in 2010, same as Beyoncé today not sounding the same as she did back then.

It honestly feels a bit racist to claim Beyoncé's voice is only capable of singing R&B style – what does that even mean?  When she's singing Blackbird by the Beatles, that's a country song. She isn't using any of the melisma traditionally associated with R&B since it wouldn't be appropriate for the song, nor any of the belting. Just compare her singing in "I Care" and "Blackbiird" and you'll see the way she delivers those notes is totally different, there's a lot more stability and less vibrato in Blackbiird.

 

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

Beyoncé is an innovator, GaGa isn't quite there, but she has some variety too

I don't know who was saying that but personally I don't think Gaga isn't an innovator. She's building her very own career blueprint that doesn't fit into a traditional pop career (pop albums + jazz albums + films and soundtrack albums + a country album) and is an incredibly versatile talent.

The reason people might more heavily lean into the narrative Beyoncé is an innovator is because pretty much all her albums since 2013 have been concept albums with very strong concepts that elevate the music beyond just being a collection of songs into being an artistic statement, often with accompanying audiovisual releases (films, a music video per song, etc.)

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

Beyoncé does not write her music, she only interprets it

Here are just some of the ways Beyoncé contributes to her music:

— Melody and vocal arrangements, as well as freestyling: Ryan Tedder has gone on record acknowledging she added the "bridge" in Halo with that vocal run on her own, which wasn't there in the original demo. She also freestyled part of the vocals on "Rocket", there's video footage of that.

— She also stacks and harmonises her vocals, which is part of the songwriting process since each stacked harmony has a different melody

— She has already stated in interviews taking time with Renaissance because if a drum snare wasn't right she would sit there in the studio for hours looking for the exact one she had in mind for that specific track

— She contributes to lyrics as well, of course, considering many of these lyrics are specifically about her children, her husband, her life. There are some instances where she uses lyrics written by others too, but claiming she never writes lyrics would be factually incorrect. Her co-writers on Formation have confirmed she wrote all the verses herself.

— Her collaborators on her joint album with Jay-Z also went on record saying how involved she was with the writing process and production process:

"She was 100 percent involved. She put her mind to the music and did her thing. If she had a melody idea, she came up with the words. If we had the words, she came up with the melody. She’s a beast. [...] And on records like “SUMMER,” Beyoncé would be like, “I want to hear strings; I want to hear horns. Use my string section, use my horns — I got them all here.” They really produced these records with us. That’s why it says produced by Beyonce and JAY-Z and Cool and Dre. They definitely gave us direction. And when we were doing it right, they told us not to stop. [...] Haters, that’s their job: to do everything to discredit brilliant people. As someone who had the opportunity and the honor to actually share the same creative space with Beyonce, there’s nothing farther from the truth than that statement. That’s what haters do. God bless ‘em. Tell them to stream the album!"

2 hours ago, OliviaRodrigoStan said:

I don't understand the need to build this whole grandiouse discourse around her

What I don't understand is the need to diminish her abilities, deny her involvement in her own work (were you there in the room with her?) and strip her of her agency. Is it because she's a woman? Because she's black? Both? Why are you so reticent to accept she does contribute to the writing of her material, when there is many instances of documented evidence proving how heavily-involved she is?