Israel strikes Iran's nuclear facilities

[LOVEDRUG 11,285]

26 minutes ago, Bronco said:

You are 100% right. And it just demostrates the damage caused by the far right extremists in power in Israel. They have deliberately wrapped themselves in the Star of David and some go out of their way to almost perform charicatures of being a jew to outsiders to increase the global society's mental perception of Israeli government = all of Judaism. 

Its a deliberate strategy that's worked exactly as they want. Opponents can often go too far and rubbish any claim of antisemitism even when its blatant jew hatred, which as a result pushes people away from opposition movements. 

 

I ultimately think that line of thinking is a little dodgy, because I think it, to an extent, removes agency from those being antisemitic. I mean, no matter what Likud or Netanyahu does, antisemitism is still unacceptable. In relation to Jews feeling scared to show their Jewish identity in public, the damage is ultimately done by the antisemites who conflate Netanyahu with all Jews.

Netanyahu himself is absolutely trying to conflate himself with all Jews regardless of where they are, and it's definitely having an effect, but antisemites are the ones actually causing the rise in antisemitism, not him. If they weren't already antisemites, they wouldn't need to look for an excuse to cover up their behaviour.

I do agree with the sentiment you expressed though, that what's happening is making it worse. But it's not creating antisemites, just giving them a convenient excuse.

[River 127,747]

1 hour ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

No offense, but now I hope you, on some level, understand how other people have felt when you’ve very callously said **** like this about Americans and mocked them for being offended (often insinuating that getting offended by anti-American sentiment is “MAGA behavior”), because I agree with you that people shouldn’t be shamed because of the decisions of their government. It’s absolutely wrong to hate or harass Israelis or Jews because of the horrific behavior of the Israeli government. Americans are not all MAGA in the same way that Israelis are not all colonial Zionists. 

You’re right, I’ve said some hurtful things in the past year and half and I’m sorry about that.

I’ve been angry for a while because all I could see is hate and people crossing the line, disguising  their antisemitism by anti Zionism and even telling jews “it’s not antisemitism” because they felt powerful enough to define to jews what and what is not antisemitism just to to give themselves a pass or to read every time that Israel shouldn’t exist.

I’ve seen a lot of parallels between Israel and USA, from the creation of these countries, to the wars, racism and so on, and then Trump was elected and did all his sh-t so I was kinda exploding and I guess hate consumed me.

But anyway, like I said I’ve been struggling with my israelism since the wars started and I wish people were more eager to listen to moderate Israelis without going and were less hateful and maybe a dialogue could start. 

[PartySick 172,975]

1 minute ago, LOVEDRUG said:

I ultimately think that line of thinking is a little dodgy, because I think it, to an extent, removes agency from those being antisemitic.

Not really? They're both in the wrong tbh.

Acknowledging that antisemitism is on the rise due to Israel's actions and constant need to declare "Israeli = Jewish = Israeli" doesn't excuse hateful pricks when they're hateful pricks. 

Just makes 'em both terrible tbh.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,996]

5 hours ago, River said:

You’re right, I’ve said some hurtful things in the past year and half and I’m sorry about that.

I’ve been angry for a while because all I could see is hate and people crossing the line, disguising  their antisemitism by anti Zionism and even telling jews “it’s not antisemitism” because they felt powerful enough to define to jews what and what is not antisemitism just to to give themselves a pass or to read every time that Israel shouldn’t exist.

I’ve seen a lot of parallels between Israel and USA, from the creation of these countries, to the wars, racism and so on, and then Trump was elected and did all his sh-t so I was kinda exploding and I guess hate consumed me.

But anyway, like I said I’ve been struggling with my israelism since the wars started and I wish people were more eager to listen to moderate Israelis without going and were less hateful and maybe a dialogue could start. 

I appreciate you saying that and know that, as far as I see it, we’re in this together. I totally get how you feel when it seems like hatred and fascism take over parts of your country and how painful it is not only to live that, but to know that there are so many people who live in your country that don’t want it to be that way and there is genuinely so much that is beautiful about your country and the people who live there. I’m really sorry that people are lashing out like this and I hope that people can, like you said, start to realize that not every Israeli (or every Jew globally, for that matter) shares Netanyahu’s bloodlust. I hope you and your family stay safe during this and am praying for peace 

[LOVEDRUG 11,285]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Not really? They're both in the wrong tbh.

Acknowledging that antisemitism is on the rise due to Israel's actions and constant need to declare "Israeli = Jewish = Israeli" doesn't excuse hateful pricks when they're hateful pricks. 

Just makes 'em both terrible tbh.

Anyone being antisemitic because of Israel's actions is either stupid, a hypocrite or already an antisemite. Again, I don't think antisemitism is on the rise 'due to Israel's actions', it's just now an available excuse to use.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,996]

1 minute ago, LOVEDRUG said:

Anyone being antisemitic because of Israel's actions is either stupid, a hypocrite or already an antisemite. Again, I don't think antisemitism is on the rise 'due to Israel's actions', it's just now an available excuse to use.

I see what you’re saying, but I think this take misses the fact that right wingers are actively using Israel’s actions to radicalize people against the Jews, so, in that sense, the situation and the rhetoric surrounding it not only actively galvanizes latent antisemitism, but also serves as a flashpoint/on ramp to convert people to antisemitism. 

[Bambino 24,321]

2 hours ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

Ana is good on this issue but she’s, unfortunately, also a huge transphobe.

I'm not familiar with her opinions and views on other stuff but as far as it goes, when it comes to Palestine, she's the bravest. She also only got exposure when she started talking about this. People in the Middle East are very font of her I tell you.

[Ladle Ghoulash 53,996]

Just now, Bambino said:

I'm not familiar with her opinions and views on other stuff but as far as it goes, when it comes to Palestine, she's the bravest. She also only got exposure when she started talking about this. People in the Middle East are very font of her I tell you.

She’s basically a TERF (claims the left “abandoned her” by advocating for “biological men” entering women’s spaces). But I agree that she and TYT have seemed to have been on the right side re: Palestine.

[LOVEDRUG 11,285]

8 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I see what you’re saying, but I think this take misses the fact that right wingers are actively using Israel’s actions to radicalize people against the Jews. 

I don't entirely disagree, but also think it's important to consider that there are serious issues with antisemitism on the left too. Most of the antisemitism I've experienced or witnessed over the past few years has been from people who'd otherwise decry racism and can't see the irony in what they're saying, people who would fall into the 'stupid' and 'hypocrite' categories I suggested.

With the society we live in, whereby antisemitism is generally quite socially acceptable, those who appear to be 'becoming antisemites' likely already hold extensive antisemitic prejudices. I don't really buy the argument that people are knowingly going from being completely fine with Jews to virulently antisemitic due to what Israel's doing.

[Bambino 24,321]

4 minutes ago, LOVEDRUG said:

Anyone being antisemitic because of Israel's actions is either stupid, a hypocrite or already an antisemite. Again, I don't think antisemitism is on the rise 'due to Israel's actions', it's just now an available excuse to use.

Well, people don't have a problem with Judaism or Jews at all. It's the Zionist ideology that's hateful and needs to be taken down. Not every Jew is a Zionist (check out the Neuturi Karta group) and not every Zionist is a Jew (every US president proudly said he was a Zionist). But that's up for people who actually make an effort for learn the difference between a Jew and a Zionist.

However, when it comes to others, you also can't blame them that Israel, the little US-funded colonial project who does all of the atrocities you can think of, defines itself as a Jewish-only state and home to all Jews in the world and does all of these atrocities in the name of Jews and in the name of protecting Jews from consequences of actions committed by the Israeli government.

I know very well that not every Jew in the world wants to be connected to this specific colonial project, and you know that too as well. I mean, there are even atheist Israelis who say the 'land was given to them by God' and that they're 'God's chosen people' and that shows how far the Zionist government is doing with brainwashing their citizens. 

I can't speak if antisemtisim is on the rise due to Netanayahu's actions (the Zionist government in general) but I do know that being antisemtic should not be a part of the Free Palestine movement and shouldn't embraced in its name either.

[Bambino 24,321]

7 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

She’s basically a TERF (claims the left “abandoned her” by advocating for “biological men” entering women’s spaces). But I agree that she and TYT have seemed to have been on the right side re: Palestine.

What's TYT? Or who? Edcuate moi please lol

[LOVEDRUG 11,285]

Just now, Bambino said:

Well, people don't have a problem with Judaism or Jews at all. It's the Zionist ideology that's hateful and needs to be taken down. Not every Jew is a Zionist (check out the Neuturi Karta group) and not every Zionist is a Jew (every US president proudly said he was a Zionist). But that's up for people who actually make an effort for learn the difference between a Jew and a Zionist.

However, when it comes to others, you also can't blame them that Israel, the little US-funded colonial project who does all of the atrocities you can think of, defines itself as a Jewish-only state and home to all Jews in the world and does all of these atrocities in the name of Jews and in the name of protecting Jews from consequences of actions committed by the Israeli government.

I know very well that not every Jew in the world wants to be connected to this specific colonial project, and you know that too as well. I mean, there are even atheist Israelis who say the 'land was given to them by God' and that they're 'God's chosen people' and that shows how far the Zionist government is doing with brainwashing their citizens. 

I can't speak if antisemtisim is on the rise due to Netanayahu's actions (the Zionist government in general) but I do know that being antisemtic should not be a part of the Free Palestine movement and shouldn't embraced in its name either.

If people can't connect the dots in their head that Jews don't equal Netanyahu when they manage to separate every other minority group from the actions of the few, I think they are either 'stupid, hypocrites or already antisemites'.

[Bambino 24,321]

Just now, LOVEDRUG said:

If people can't connect the dots in their head that Jews don't equal Netanyahu when they manage to separate every other minority group from the actions of the few, I think they are either 'stupid, hypocrites or already antisemites'.

Stupid or hypocrites? I wouldn't use such names to call people who have been made to think that all Muslims are terrorists, or all Muslim women are suppressed, or that Arabs don't have vehicles or homes and live only in desert tents and ride camels, but I would take the time to educate them out of the stereotyped they were fed with by the media on Palestine/Islam/Middle East/Arabs.

If they learn and still want to be a racist, then yes they are stupid.

[PartySick 172,975]

16 minutes ago, LOVEDRUG said:

Anyone being antisemitic because of Israel's actions is either stupid, a hypocrite or already an antisemite. Again, I don't think antisemitism is on the rise 'due to Israel's actions', it's just now an available excuse to use.

I mean could be. It's definitely not a coincidence that Israel started carpet bombing their prisoners and then the rate of antisemitic attacks/instances skyrocketed though.

Whether it emboldened them or they took Netanyahu's "we are Jews" spiel to heart, idk if that's really a worthwhile debate.

Antisemitism bad, Israel also bad.

That's kinda all we need lmao

[PartySick 172,975]

1 minute ago, Bambino said:

Stupid or hypocrites? I wouldn't use such names to call people who have been made to think that all Muslims are terrorists, or all Muslim women are suppressed, or that Arabs don't have vehicles or homes and live only in desert tents and ride camels, but I would take the time to educate them out of the stereotyped they were fed with by the media on Palestine/Islam/Middle East/Arabs.

If they learn and still want to be a racist, then yes they are stupid.

Oh girl I grew up with people who call Muslims "sand n-words".

There's no helping them. They're not teachable or reachable.

You can only crush them.