Biden internals showed Trump with 400 EVs

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, Bronco said:

I agree no incumbent was in with a strong chance of winning this year. But I think Bernie would have won 2016, which then puts the threat of Trump in 2024 into question entirely tbh

Looking at the results both Harris and Biden were set up to loose. Only a third candidate being elected through the primaries maybe stood a slim but very unlikely chance and only with complete awareness of how things stood with the Democratic party at that point of time but looking back on how they have run their campaign shows they didn't know these facts. They didn't know what needed to be done to undo the damage from the Biden era. They didn't even realize Biden had brought significant damage at all. Just the sentence "not a single thing comes to mind" says it all. It's the party that is so dysfunctional right now that by those means even someone charismatic like Michelle Obama wouldn't have won this tbh. Someone on CNN said Harris ran a campaign from the 2000s and I agree. They somehow completely overlooked the mass mobilization that was going on behind the Republican party and this didn't start just when early voting began. The way Trump defeated Clinton by surprise must have been early warning signs but they didn't listen and they thought the margins are in their favour based on the midterm election results.

I doubt Bernie Sanders would have defeated him. Trump is a figure that is so easy to underestimate but exactly that makes his biggest strength and that is his fire that is so connected to his base that just keeps burning. It burns as long as Dems do not realize that by riding on the Anti-Trump narrative, ignoring the shortterm struggles of high cost and the border, they are just pouring more fuel into that fire and this election showed internet and the media has developed in a way that puts that anger and fuel exactly the way Trump needs it to, to mobilize. And back in 2016, don't forget that a significant amount of the Republican party had not undergone the MAGA brainwash yet so they would have just treated Sanders as a radical left socialist anyway. I guess 2020 was his only chance to snatch it because of the devastating performance of Trump during the pandemic. And let's not forget that it leaves a big question mark if the cooperate branch of the Democratic party would have let Bernie do the things he wanted to do. I doubt it. Trump in comparison has just too many loyalists in his party to face a Democratic opponent that would be able to beat him by left wing politics as long as wealthy party donors have so much influence on the blue side. They need to restart their party and cut the cooperate branch so they can put real working class people to the forefront and just reinforce the freedom again to let them be themselves. In that sense, I guess the Democratic Party only stands a chance om this fight against Trump, given that he will govern more like an authoritarian this time, when the party becomes a civil rights movement again. They need to have people with backgrounds like Katie Porter for example and let go of establishment party faces to built back the trust and credibility to truly and undoubtedly represent the needs of the people. 

[Bronco 27,853]

3 hours ago, Natalia Kills said:

Yeah I can agree on 2016, he could have performed better than Hilary and maybe won by managing to show some difference from the Obama years. 

Hilary unfortunately felt like a weaker 3rd term of Obama. She still won the popular vote which is unfair to her, the electoral college needs to change. Trump won fairly this time around, but 2016 was a lucky grab of particular swing states.

It sucks women aren’t in the running to win. The dems messed up by making two female nominees be continuation candidates rather than fresh/change candidates. 

At this rate, I honestly think the republicans have a better chance of leveraging a female leader as an asset. 

I think the biggest issue with Hillary is her campaign felt like she saw it as a coronation of something owed to her after losing in 2008. Her energy was the epitome of the "I deserve this" meme

3 hours ago, chromaticainmyhead said:

doubt Bernie Sanders would have defeated him. Trump is a figure that is so easy to underestimate but exactly that makes his biggest strength and that is his fire that is so connected to his base that just keeps burning. It burns as long as Dems do not realize that by riding on the Anti-Trump narrative, ignoring the shortterm struggles of high cost and the border, they are just pouring more fuel into that fire and this election showed internet and the media has developed in a way that puts that anger and fuel exactly the way Trump needs it to, to mobilize. And back in 2016, don't forget that a significant amount of the Republican party had not undergone the MAGA brainwash yet so they would have just treated Sanders as a radical left socialist anyway.

There was absolutely the red scare issue with Bernie in 2016. But Trump hadn't built the base in 2016 which is part of the reason I think Bernie was the best candidate against him in that cycle.

Joe Rogan was a Bernie Bro until the 2020 cycle lets remember. So much of the base & the internet platform Trump has built and expanded since 2016 has the same roots and voter groups as Bernie's coalition did. 

Disaffected working class voters. People turned off from the corporatist politics of the Democratic and Republican establishment represented by Biden, Clinton, Bush & Cheney etc. Gen Z voters who have been repeatedly failed by every political establishment and given a poisened inheritence for the first time since the greatest generation. 

I don't know for certain Bernie would have won it. But he was the only one in 2016 besides Trump making a play for it. The Dems rejected him and essentially fought the 2016 campaign not against Trump or Bernie but against the voters wanting to break the cycle of the establishment winning. As a result, Trump got an essentially unchallenged monopoly over the biggest voter coalition present in western democracies currently. 

Biden made small plays for them in 2020 and it worked. Especially on the back of a disastrous year for Trump who was totally fumbling the economy & COVID. And then 2024 happens and its like all the ground gained and lessons learned were handed over without a thought.

[dit 46,738]

omg I kinda hate Biden with a passion for genocide and for this MESS. His stubborness is one of his worst qualities EVER

[GoldenPonyboy 2,434]

23 hours ago, Siena said:

The democrats biggest mistake was  putting in Kamala, and then having her essentially run as a Biden 2.0. The Dems assumed having her being the new face of the campaign wound be enough for them to win, when they needed new and very clear ideas and plans, especially for the economy. They seriously underestimated how unhappy people have been with the last 4 years. The moment I watched Kamala’s interview on The View and I heard her say that she would’ve changed nothing, that’s when I knew we were f*cked. Had she been able to distance herself from Biden , I think she could’ve won. But also criticizing the administration she just spent 4 years apart of is also not a good idea, so I really don’t know what the Dems were thinking at all. They should’ve held a primary but here we are now  

 

Problem is voters believed the choice was between abortion and the economy, despite republicans not putting any good policy forward. It was a false choice.  Kamala tried with the housing stuff but in the end, the economy as it is has recovered decently from the pandemic. People just assume republicans are better for the economy, despite the last 20 years proving the exact opposite. Tho i agree the messaging shouldve been clearer. I understand she didnt want to backstab biden, but all she needed to do was explain biden did well at recovering, and outline a plan for moving forward from that point. All trump said was he was gonna put tariffs and people just assumed it was gonna be a net positive

[GoldenPonyboy 2,434]

7 hours ago, Bronco said:

I agree no incumbent was in with a strong chance of winning this year. But I think Bernie would have won 2016, which then puts the threat of Trump in 2024 into question entirely tbh

This so much. If trump had lost in 2016, the republican party would never have morphed into this mess. Bernie wouldve scooped up all the voters that were tired of the establishement. Not to mention a lot of people voted for trump solely to stick it to the dems for what they did to bernie

[BornAsUnic0rn 2,249]

I want to believe Biden stayed in the race this stubbornly to take the inevitable L and protect Harris, the party or whoever runs 2028, because he knew this race was not winnable. His administration‘s legacy would have benefited greatly from being looked at retrospectively after Trump‘s next term. He would have lost spectacularly, taken the full blame, left office hated by the whole country but viewed kind by history.

 

But Democrats pushing him out as disgracefully as they did just to take such a humiliating loss basically ruined even the future legacy of Biden‘s term and I‘m not even sure they have any chance in the next 8 years. 

[bionic 50,111]

I just got home from a very disappointing week in Nevada... Having spoken to 100+ people this past week across various swing states this is not a surprose

[bionic 50,111]

12 hours ago, BornAsUnic0rn said:

I want to believe Biden stayed in the race this stubbornly to take the inevitable L and protect Harris, the party or whoever runs 2028, because he knew this race was not winnable. His administration‘s legacy would have benefited greatly from being looked at retrospectively after Trump‘s next term. He would have lost spectacularly, taken the full blame, left office hated by the whole country but viewed kind by history.

 

But Democrats pushing him out as disgracefully as they did just to take such a humiliating loss basically ruined even the future legacy of Biden‘s term and I‘m not even sure they have any chance in the next 8 years. 

The party pushed Biden out and he threw Kamala under the bus by insisting there wasn't enough time for a primary. The party wanted to have one

[BornAsUnic0rn 2,249]

22 minutes ago, bionic said:

The party pushed Biden out and he threw Kamala under the bus by insisting there wasn't enough time for a primary. The party wanted to have one

Because the prospects of a primary would have been even worse, let‘s be real. Having the Democrats „battle it out“ next to republicans surrounding trump after he was almost shot would have looked terrible. And as incumbent party you can’t completely **** on the current administration. And none of the popular possibilities were ready to take the hit with a 3 month long campaign. 
 

I‘m certain Biden wanted to be front and center, take the full blame for the humiliation and leave for good. Dems were in a fight against losing since the midterms, anyone who thinks they had a better chance in 2024 than max 50/50 is naive.