Just saw Joker

[LordByron28 852]

9 minutes ago, Bobina said:

 I know. I watched the movie(s) 

You questioned how they could be in love so quickly. I explained that one created an entire romance off of a 30 second interaction previously; while Lee was lying to him and saying/doing things that would make him believe it was real.

9 minutes ago, monstertoronto said:

I like your analysis of the films. I just didn’t really enjoy watching this one and felt the tone was all over the place. 

Understandable. I do see that perspective just don’t think the film deserves such a negative score and reception. Think it will be better received over time when the dust settles, even when its shortcomings are also still recognized. 

[monstertoronto 8,660]

3 minutes ago, LordByron28 said:

Understandable. I do see that perspective just don’t think the film deserves such a negative score and reception. Think it will be better received over time when the dust settles, even when its shortcomings are also still recognized. 

Honestly, for Gagas sake I do hope the film’s legacy is better received over time. But while I think the original Joker had a very cohesive tone and storyline, I personally don’t think adding (or arguably massively expanding) the musical conceit to this one helped the movie and I just dont know if time will solve the problem. But I don’t like that I didn’t like this movie. I wish I liked it more. 

[Helxig 41,079]

13 minutes ago, monstertoronto said:

All of this!!!  I don’t think it really pleases any particular fanbase and probably alienates a lot of them. The fanboys are NOT going to like all the musical interludes and I was kind of bored by all the dark room scenes. 

My selfish wish is that they chose to lean into a juxtaposition of big, vibrant, campy moments with dark, eerie, thought-provoking moments. Sometimes cutting back and fourth from, for example, a big campy musical scene to a deep and serious conversation, with the lyrics matching up with what they're saying. If it was done really well like that then the fanboys would give the musical scenes a pass or even admit they worked well, and the Gaga fans and normal people wouldn't have gotten bored of the more serious stuff. I mean I usually am pretty good and just focussing on dialogue but even I was really struggling in parts to bother to keep listening

The other idea in my head is that the whole entire movie was only half the movie. As in the whole court case and what Arthur was going through was condensed into about half the movie and the other half was an actual Harley origin story very similar to the first movie, and it would cut between their two perspectives equally and we'd see their stories playout alongside each other and intertwine. Rather than Harley just popping in for a few minutes randomly here and there to support Arthur's story. It could have been so interesting and exciting and actually add something to the plot twists

[monstertoronto 8,660]

1 minute ago, Helxig said:

The other idea in my head is that the whole entire movie was only half the movie. As in the whole court case and what Arthur was going through was condensed into about half the movie and the other half was an actual Harley origin story very similar to the first movie, and it would cut between their two perspectives equally and we'd see their stories playout alongside each other and intertwine. Rather than Harley just popping in for a few minutes randomly here and there to support Arthur's story. It could have been so interesting and exciting and actually add something to the plot twists

I actually love this idea. I think the court story honestly was so thin anyways. I couldn’t believe that it basically encompassed almost the entire film. Lee was actually a fascinating character that had a few twists/layers and I would have loved to spend more time with her. 

[Ivy 11,449]

I agree pretty much, altho I loved it. But it's definitely super dark and tragic. I did think there was a little bit of dark comedy at certain parts of the musical numbers. And I didn't really find it to be slow but I think that is subjective and depends on types of things that a person usually watches 

I almost think the music parts were jarring on purpose maybe? To give them a more surreal quality? Or maybe to show his state of mind being so different than reality? Idk but they were so contrasted, with the saturated colors and everything, compared with when it goes back to reality with gray and gritty quality. And every time they started singing I was thinking how much some ppl would be hating it which I kind of enjoyed 

I could definitely see Gaga's interest in that way that you described. Also the way it's showing the cycle of abuse, and mental health, relates to her interest in that and her beliefs in kindness

[tyler k 4,368]

respectfully, there's a thread for this you know that right?

 

[MaybeKermit 3,781]

54 minutes ago, monstertoronto said:

Interesting. I don’t know if I want to watch it again right now but I did enjoy seeing Gaga up there. That’s the only reason I would see it again. 

I felt the same way you do after my 1st watch. Definitely thought “damn… it was bad”, but just wanted to go again by myself (bcs my 1st watch was with a group of friends and they didnt like it, even during the movie some of them were on their phone so it kinda distracted me from trying to enjoy it). 
 

and so I went by myself, and really enjoyed it much more. Soundtrack is amazing, cinematography is amazing, story-wise ofc there are some problems but it was less disturbing during my 2nd watch. 
 

only things that still annoyed me were SPOILERS !!!!! (cant find the spoiler button)

1) the way Gaga starts singing “my friends should see me now”, it really starts the whole campy/corny musica vibe 

2) the way Gaga sings Close to You, (from the moment she stands up and dances I mean). Again, too corny and doesnt fit the vibe of that scene

3) how early they “expose” Harley (when his attorney tells him her dad is a doctor etc). Couldve chosen a better moment + way for Arthur to find out

4) switch from Arthur’s scene to Gaga singing World on a string and putting on her makeup, felt too random

that’s all that bothered me during my 2nd watch tbh

[MOT 2,515]

I must admit I would still like to know what went on behind the scenes. The marketing of the movie, even before any trailers, suggested a much bigger role for Gaga. So was that intentionally misleading, or was there genuinely a change of plan, and if the latter, why ?

That being said, I thought that what we ended up with made sense. The movie was Arthur's story, and in that story nothing REALLY good could happen to him. In terms of the plot, Lee's role was to reignite the Joker character, but their romance couldn't go anywhere. Arthur had nothing going for him. He was a powerless man with no love in his life, and the only reason anyone paid any attention to him was because he was a murderer - not a good place to be. His fantasies were all he had. Take away that music and there was nothing.

[SHALLOW 15,535]

The movie really isn't that bad. It's just that the audience didn't expect to be a musical even tho they told us 2 years ago. People are just overreacting.

My only critique is that they could have cut some boring scenes and added more Lee. I wouldn't change much else as i like the general idea ( people only liking a part of yourself but not your true self) it was very metanarrative and it definitely teases the fans too a little which wasn't that bad imo

Edited 3 hours ago by SHALLOW

[monstertoronto 8,660]

45 minutes ago, Ivy said:

I agree pretty much, altho I loved it. But it's definitely super dark and tragic. I did think there was a little bit of dark comedy at certain parts of the musical numbers. And I didn't really find it to be slow but I think that is subjective and depends on types of things that a person usually watches 

I almost think the music parts were jarring on purpose maybe? To give them a more surreal quality? Or maybe to show his state of mind being so different than reality? Idk but they were so contrasted, with the saturated colors and everything, compared with when it goes back to reality with gray and gritty quality. And every time they started singing I was thinking how much some ppl would be hating it which I kind of enjoyed 

I could definitely see Gaga's interest in that way that you described. Also the way it's showing the cycle of abuse, and mental health, relates to her interest in that and her beliefs in kindness

I’m glad that you loved it even though we had similar reactions to the material in some way. I think maybe it’s just not my normal kind of movie to watch, so maybe it really isn’t for me. I think I want a little hope sometimes and there felt like there was none lol. 
def also think Gaga would respond to the themes of abuse and want to shine a light on that too. 

[monstertoronto 8,660]

30 minutes ago, MaybeKermit said:

I felt the same way you do after my 1st watch. Definitely thought “damn… it was bad”, but just wanted to go again by myself (bcs my 1st watch was with a group of friends and they didnt like it, even during the movie some of them were on their phone so it kinda distracted me from trying to enjoy it). 
 

and so I went by myself, and really enjoyed it much more. Soundtrack is amazing, cinematography is amazing, story-wise ofc there are some problems but it was less disturbing during my 2nd watch. 
 

only things that still annoyed me were SPOILERS !!!!! (cant find the spoiler button)

1) the way Gaga starts singing “my friends should see me now”, it really starts the whole campy/corny musica vibe 

2) the way Gaga sings Close to You, (from the moment she stands up and dances I mean). Again, too corny and doesnt fit the vibe of that scene

3) how early they “expose” Harley (when his attorney tells him her dad is a doctor etc). Couldve chosen a better moment + way for Arthur to find out

4) switch from Arthur’s scene to Gaga singing World on a string and putting on her makeup, felt too random

that’s all that bothered me during my 2nd watch tbh

I liked the Close to You scene while also feeling it was jarring and didn’t really make sense for the movie. Again it was like, is this happening or is it his imagination. But I thought she looked cute doing it. 
I agree with all of your other points too. 

[Auralegends 3,917]

I just the movie as well. The movie is not as bad as people make it out to be, I actually liket it, though the ending was very stupid. 

As for Gaga, she is amazing in this film, her acting is on point and she really brings Lee as a character to live. I also get why some of her scenes were scrapped, like her dancing on the stairway.

I also get why she made Harlequin, but to avoid spoilers:

Spoiler

In the movie, she really develops from being a "normal" woman to Lee. AS the movie progresses she puts on more make-up and slowly transforms into the character. At the end, she is on her own, as Arthurt says there is no Joker.

So right at the point Lee's transformation is done, the Joker is gone, hence Gaga wasn't done with Lee. This whole transformation led nowhere, but now Gaga/Lee used this as the seed for the Harlequin album