Meta bans the use of the word ‘Zionist’ as a derogatory term

[Not The Real Gaga 7,582]

 

People have been abusing the word too much since last year. Also, way too many people same to be ok with (casual) antisemitism nowadays... which is worrying.

However, I don't think banning the word makes sense when it's also used in its right context.

[Diamond Blood 4,552]

@PartySick I think it's time to lock/delete this thread

[StupidLoveBis 1,363]

Being Jewish, I'm happy. 
The word Zionist is used for anything and everything without even knowing what it means. 

[Pennywise 36,080]

Okay, can we use “Israeli” instead, then? Since y’all are so bent on victimizing yourselves? 

 

example: “The Israeli are so vile” 

 

Does this work? 

[Pennywise 36,080]

Like… y’all KNOW that Zionist does not mean “Jew”. You just “want” it to mean that so that you can be victims. 

[Pennywise 36,080]

And you can’t be a militarist, ethnonationalist, genocidal settler colony AND be victims 

[Pennywise 36,080]

Anyway

 

[PartySick 172,543]

2 minutes ago, ARTPOPKISS said:

@PartySick I think it's time to lock/delete this thread

I don't see a reason to. Nobody can even agree on what this word means.

Some say it's simply a Jewish desire to return to the homeland of their people.

Other's say it's a concept that supports colonialism and Israel uses it to justify what they're doing to the people of Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, etc.

Idk who's right. Maybe they're both a little right and, like most things, the answers aren't black or white. Maybe the best analogy for the concept, for me to understand at least, would be numerous beliefs in the Christian faith that are perfectly harmless in theory but in practice can cause immeasurable suffering for others. But then I have to question if zionism is rooted in Jewish mythology like bigoted beliefs are rooted in Christian mythology...and then, like any idea, it should be open to scrutiny. Or is it a cultural thing? Or...what even is the difference between the two.

Do Jews believe they have a right to the land because their people lived there a long time ago? They slowly migrated away over 2000 years for a multitude of reasons and decided in the 1940s to go back after Europe became such a dark place for their people? Or do they believe their deity has said they're entitled to it by any means? Because one of those is arguably laughable and ridiculous, especially when you see how much suffering is happening because of it. But then I'm not sure if it's right or wrong to tie the term "zionist" to Israel's terrorist-like actions or not tbh so I'd like to see this conversation play out between people who are more well informed than I am.

Obviously we can lock the thread and warn for problematic posts if it gets to that point.

This thread did set me off on a little reading journey of my own though. I'm learning about the Roman persecution of the Jewish people, the peace in Palestine between all three Abrahamic faiths, and the roots of the zionist movement from way back in the 1700s. It's just honestly sad their perfectly valid desire for a homeland has lead to a modern government that's displaced, kidnapped, assaulted, impoverished, oppressed, and murdered millions.

I look to American Jews for a lot of my "is this hate or not?" decisions. They are the second largest population of Jews in the world after all, and imo being removed from the area gives them a more impartial view without sacrificing their identity as Jews and it seems a great deal of them would like to distance themselves from Israel, its actions, and the concept of zionism entirely to the point that entire Jewish groups in the US will march with pro-Palestinian protestors and decry zionism whenever they can.

The studies are actually interesting. There was a poll back in Feb asking Jews about the situation in Israel/Gaza. Only half of American Jews have a favorable view of the Israeli government and that number drops when you only consider younger Jews. Iirc, a third of younger Jews even said Hamas has valid reasons for fighting Israel. That's not to say they support them, of course not, just that they believe their reasons for fighting are valid.

...I'm rambling...I did not mean to write a novel lmao  it's 6am and I've found something that interests my little adhd mind, excuse me

Don't be afraid to use the report button

Peace!

[Jill 31,812]

13 hours ago, PartySick said:

I don't see a reason to. Nobody can even agree on what this word means.

Some say it's simply a Jewish desire to return to the homeland of their people.

Other's say it's a concept that supports colonialism and Israel uses it to justify what they're doing to the people of Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, etc.

Zionism is factually an ethnonationalist ideology in support of the establishment, first and foremost, of a Jewish state based on some sense of ancestral divine rights. Zionism was used as the moral justification for the colonization of Palestine back in the 19th and 20th centuries, which even American media identified as a colonial project during the early years.

This colonial project, justified as I said only on the grounds of a perceived divine right to an already populated territory, caused the displacement (and eventual genocide) of millions, and went ahead past the established limits even when Palestine accepted to give out some of its territory. Nevertheless, Israel persisted in their project and have since sought to expand their dominion even more, by extreme violence if necessary (which they do).

Now, there are some more points necessary for understanding Israel's and the Zionist role today within the Middle East. The main one I think is the ideological excuse, Zionism, but there's also the material reality, which is that Israel serves a very specific geopolitical purpose within the M.E. area, and that purpose is to stop Arab countries from forming anti-hegemonic coalitions against other colonial powers, mainly in Europe and North America. This is the reason why Israel's existence was (and still is) supported by the US and other allies economically and ideologically.

We also have to clarify that, even though Zionism, as an ideology, was created as a response to anti-semitism (which was and still is very prevalent), it purports to resolve the issue by establishing a "peaceful" zone in which Jewish people can "thrive". However, as it is obvious, this won't resolve anti-semitism, on the contrary, it will cause even more issues. You can't just separate people every time one group oppresses the other. You have to resolve the oppression directly.

It also is ethnonationalism, plain and simple, and ethnonationalism isn't good anywhere. Not because of moral reasons, but because it causes many other forms of oppression, which is what's happening now. What the Nazis did to the Jews, Zionists are now doing to the Palestinians in a sort of very dramatic and sad irony. This is very wrong under any and all circumstances.