US Supreme Courts Votes To Allow Cities To Ban Homeless Camps

[RAMROD 117,983]

The Supreme Court ruled Friday that people without homes can be fined for sleeping in public spaces, overturning a lower court’s ruling that enforcing camping bans when shelter is lacking is cruel and unusual punishment.

The 6-3 decision was the most significant ruling on the issue from the high court in decades.

It comes as record numbers of Americans lack permanent housing and as both Democratic and Republican leaders have complained a 2018 decision by a lower court has hamstrung their ability to address homeless encampments that threaten health and public safety.

“The Court cannot say that the punishments Grants Pass imposes here qualify as cruel and unusual,” Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote for the majority, referring to the small Oregon municipality at the center of the case.

“The city imposes only limited fines for first-time offenders, an order temporarily barring an individual from camping in a public park for repeat offenders, and a maximum sentence of 30 days in jail for those who later violate an order.”

https://www.aol.com/landmark-decision-supreme-court-lets-140925491.html

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,282]

Shocking, but not even remotely surprising, unfortunately 

[Nemo 4,414]

Cruel, but not unusual. That's the catch.

[HeavyMetal Halcyon 1,902]

Homelessness in America is an epidemic and only getting worse. In my neighborhood, there are many individuals without permanent shelter. It can be a nuisance, yes, but where are they supposed to go? We need to find a solution, not drive these people further into debt / give them fines they can’t pay? How will that help? 

[Bling 31,703]

I live in Portland and the issue has gotten OUT OF CONTROL, so much so that I fear for me and my family's safety just walking down the streets of our neighborhood which is across the river and 10min from downtown. It's everywhere.

Recently my 6mo puppy picked up the other end of a USED syringe  People are setting up camps on sidewalks where people with wheelchairs or disabilities literally cannot pass through. There's human feces on our neighborhood greenways, trash and food waste on sidewalks, our local grocery store always has at least 1 person camped right outside the entrance and also the store has rampant shoplifting.

I honestly could write a thesis paper on this but yeah...just something to think about. It's different when you're living it. 

EDIT: There's more to be done than just banning the camps. 

[HelloHangoverz 17,452]

11 minutes ago, BlingNotTheMusic said:

EDIT: There's more to be done than just banning the camps. 

Well you're absolutely right to be frustrated.

I volunteered for years with a homelessness charity here in the UK, and received a lot of training on the causes of homelessness, how to properly treat it, what exacerbates it etc. The charity was called Crisis and kind of advised the government on what to do re homelessness policy (not that they listened very much)

Homelessness is absolutely 100% easily fixable. And it's not just by two dimensionally chucking money at anybody who's got nowhere to go. If you provide somebody with the material basics to keep them off the streets, but also provide mental health support and community, it goes a long way. Homelessness/living on the streets only really happens when there's no material foundation ie wages, no mental health and no community surrounding the person.

I'm sorry but the cost of providing these things in any western country is not that much, and the issue is totally politiczed. It really doesn't need to be made any more complicated than that, but because humans are humans, that's what happens, and you end up with **** on your doorstep lol.

Edit: just to provide more context on how absolutely ridiculous it is over here....the piece of legislation that police use to 'shoo' rough sleepers is called The Vagrancy Act of 1824. It was literally passed in 1824 mama....with 1824 values. There are petitions ongoing as we speak to scrap it, but the conservatives don't care about homelessness. When they originally gained power in 2010, there had been a pledge in their election manifesto saying something like "if you live in a homeless hostel, you will be able to get more in benefits, to give you the support you need back to stability."

But then they sneakily and quietly changed the definition of "homeless hostel" so very few people could actually take advantage of it. 

[Economy 53,087]

Tbh my opinion on this depends how its used.

 

Not every area of a city is safe or appropriate to have an encampment at random. It cant be just anywhere. So part of me gets this @BlingNotTheMusic

 

But on the otherhand, this is also the kind of rulling that will end up getting abused by those who dont like or care about the homeless and they are going to unfairly declare almost every area "unsafe" to fit the bill/paw to the point they cant go anywhere

 

I would not have as much reservations on this if the same people complaining about the issues emcampments cause in some areas proposed alternate designated areas, or support for the homeless so they dont cause the issues concerned (for example the article talks about feces, well you have to go somewhere. If you have no public washroom what are you supposed to do? North America is terrible for public washroom availability. You have to go into businesses or coffee shops and most businesses only let customers use washrooms, some even lock doors and you have to ask for a key, so what do the homeless do then????)

 

Maybe provide public washrooms before complaining the homeless sh*t on the ground. Or do we expect them to wave a wand and magically make their poo disapear?

 

Often the ppl who want them out of here or there the most are also the same people that put no effort into fighting the homeless issue or providing support or alternatives and thats a problem.

 

An encampment may be bad in some areas, I dont disagree... But dont ban it or make them move if u havent come up with an alternative as well

[Bling 31,703]

27 minutes ago, Economy said:

Tbh my opinion on this depends how its used.

 

Not every area of a city is safe or appropriate to have an encampment at random. It cant be just anywhere. So part of me gets this @BlingNotTheMusic

 

But on the otherhand, this is also the kind of rulling that will end up getting abused by those who dont like or care about the homeless and they are going to unfairly declare almost every area "unsafe" to fit the bill/paw to the point they cant go anywhere

 

I would not have as much reservations on this if the same people complaining about the issues emcampments cause in some areas proposed alternate designated areas, or support for the homeless so they dont cause the issues concerned (for example the article talks about feces, well you have to go somewhere. If you have no public washroom what are you supposed to do? North America is terrible for public washroom availability. You have to go into businesses or coffee shops and most businesses only let customers use washrooms, some even lock doors and you have to ask for a key, so what do the homeless do then????)

 

Maybe provide public washrooms before complaining the homeless sh*t on the ground. Or do we expect them to wave a wand and magically make their poo disapear?

 

Often the ppl who want them out of here or there the most are also the same people that put no effort into fighting the homeless issue or providing support or alternatives and thats a problem.

 

An encampment may be bad in some areas, I dont disagree... But dont ban it or make them move if u havent come up with an alternative as well

I just want to feel safe in our neighborhood where we spend so much money paying rent, only to walk down the street and encounter someone tweaking out or garbage on the street, or see remnants of drug use or camps. There's a nature area close to our place with trails that are great for the dogs, but we're so nervous going there now because homeless people have taken over and are living in the woods with tents and ****. It's awful. Not to mention they always start fires and the fire trucks have to show up and deal with them. 

A big sentiment from a lot of people here is we pay so much in rent, so much in taxes, yet we have to put up with all of this crap? Our tax money is paying for, what, exactly? Why don't we all just stop paying rent and lay tents down 

[PartySick 174,244]

I feel like I remember one of those "liberal wonderland" European nations basically solving homelessness by, wait for it, 🥁 🥁 🥁 🥁 giving people homes.

They just did an experiment with UBI in Colorado where they gave homeless people regular incomes. By the end of it, about half of them had homes, jobs or better jobs, and their kids were in better schools.

It really is as super simple as giving people the help they need to lift themselves out of such a sh*tty situation.

Food, a roof, rehab, our country makes enough to pay for it all easily several times over.

Do that instead of making it illegal for them to sleep in public.

[Economy 53,087]

34 minutes ago, BlingNotTheMusic said:

I just want to feel safe in our neighborhood where we spend so much money paying rent, only to walk down the street and encounter someone tweaking out or garbage on the street, or see remnants of drug use or camps. There's a nature area close to our place with trails that are great for the dogs, but we're so nervous going there now because homeless people have taken over and are living in the woods with tents and ****. It's awful. Not to mention they always start fires and the fire trucks have to show up and deal with them. 

A big sentiment from a lot of people here is we pay so much in rent, so much in taxes, yet we have to put up with all of this crap? Our tax money is paying for, what, exactly? Why don't we all just stop paying rent and lay tents down 

Well, i did not disagree with u that some areas are not appropriate or safe for homeless encamptments

 

All i said in a nutshell is that they have to go somewhere and a lot of people and politicians wanna tear down their camps but then provide absolutely no alternative accomodations or designate other areas they could maybe go instead

 

I also re-eiterate my point about bathrooms. I keep hearing the argument about them urinating or deficating yet North American cities provide like almost no public washrooms whatsoever. Are the homeless supposed to hold it now? Lets be realistic. They got bodily functions too just the same and if their only option is to pee or poo in public thats what their gonna do

 

People who only complain about the nusance they cause but dont talk about possible solutions to help them as well, it kinda shows selfish concern for themselves and that they dont care much for what the homeless go thru or their situation.

 

Anyone with compation would be thinking about where they are gonna go once they move them not just the fact that they are gonna move them. Cuz that means as soon as ur problem is solved and they are out of sight they are no longer really of your concern

 

Anyone with compation would also wonder how they are gonna go to the bathroom once laws against public defecations are harder enforced, and not just concerned with stopping it

[Naak Le Vaar 1,222]

Wages are stagnant, rent and mortgage/interest rates are sky high, this is no accident. This is a pipeline to legally enslave people

[Bling 31,703]

4 minutes ago, Economy said:

Well, i did not disagree with u that some areas are not appropriate or safe for homeless encamptments

 

All i said in a nutshell is that they have to go somewhere and a lot of people and politicians wanna tear down their camps but then provide absolutely no alternative accomodations or designate other areas they could maybe go instead

 

I also re-eiterate my point about bathrooms. I keep hearing the argument about them urinating or deficating yet North American cities provide like almost no public washrooms whatsoever. Are the homeless supposed to hold it now? Lets be realistic. They got bodily functions too just the same and if their only option is to pee or poo in public thats what their gonna do

 

People who only complain about the nusance they cause but dont talk about possible solutions to help them as well, it kinda shows selfish concern for themselves and that they dont care much for what the homeless go thru or their situation.

 

Anyone with compation would be thinking about where they are gonna go once they move them not just the fact that they are gonna move them. Cuz that means as soon as ur problem is solved and they are out of sight they are no longer really of your concern

 

Anyone with compation would also wonder how they are gonna go to the bathroom once laws against public defecations are harder enforced, and not just concerned with stopping it

I totally see your point 

Unfortunately, living with this for 10+ years and it progressively getting worse, 2 years ago the house I was staying in got broken into, stank of urine and, well, you know they were homeless by the smell, stole my spare keys for my new car and estimated $1200 worth of personal belongings, forced me to not take public transit because people get on with 3-4 HUGE garbage bags of cans and their random hoarder stuff, not to mention tweaking out and stinking while I'm on my way to work, parking their stolen RVs in our already limited street parking, friends have had cars stolen from their ****ing driveway at their house and later found and completely wrecked full of drugs, the list goes on...you lose a lot of compassion 

[Economy 53,087]

Just now, BlingNotTheMusic said:

I totally see your point 

Unfortunately, living with this for 10+ years and it progressively getting worse, 2 years ago the house I was staying in got broken into, stank of urine and, well, you know they were homeless by the smell, stole my spare keys for my new car and estimated $1200 worth of personal belongings, forced me to not take public transit because people get on with 3-4 HUGE garbage bags of cans and their random hoarder stuff, not to mention tweaking out and stinking while I'm on my way to work, parking their stolen RVs in our already limited street parking, friends have had cars stolen from their ****ing driveway at their house and later found and completely wrecked full of drugs, the list goes on...you lose a lot of compassion 

Thats understandable

 

I live in the part of the city with the most homeless cuz im by a lot of subsidized housing and its literally beggers in every corner, prostitutes (that clearly have addiction issues not out of a career choice) and stuff tho based on what ur describing its not as vad as your area

 

But i think the conversation needs to be had harder on how to prevent homelessness in the first place, and how to help accomodate the ones that already are homeless.

 

Simply trying to remove them does not help solve the core issues fundamentally and it can also be highly inhumaine

 

So im not really arguing against having to move camps in some circumstances if required... but its also about HOW you do it, and how you provide them with alternate support or accomodations if you must move them.

[CameronSpears 2,155]

11 hours ago, BlingNotTheMusic said:

I live in Portland and the issue has gotten OUT OF CONTROL, so much so that I fear for me and my family's safety just walking down the streets of our neighborhood which is across the river and 10min from downtown. It's everywhere.

Recently my 6mo puppy picked up the other end of a USED syringe  People are setting up camps on sidewalks where people with wheelchairs or disabilities literally cannot pass through. There's human feces on our neighborhood greenways, trash and food waste on sidewalks, our local grocery store always has at least 1 person camped right outside the entrance and also the store has rampant shoplifting.

I honestly could write a thesis paper on this but yeah...just something to think about. It's different when you're living it. 

EDIT: There's more to be done than just banning the camps. 

Oh get over it. Do you have a house? Be grateful and learn to watch your dog.

[27monster27 16,039]

This is like one of four conservative things done by the right-wing majority supreme court in less than a week, and they all suck.

This is a prologue to Project 2025 I fear.