Pet Shop Boys' Neil Tennant says Taylor's music doesn't come close to Michael Jackson

[LadyxGaGa 1,004]

u don’t this will hurt her sales do u??

[AnglerfishbraBENUS 4,833]

we’re so lucky our fave has a bad romance and a shallow. 

not everyone has that 

[SlaeUrAnus 14,748]

8 hours ago, Bronco said:

He's right tbf. 

I like her songs, I like quite a bit of the new album. But let's face it - we're 18 years in since Taylor's first album in 2006 and by now you'd expect to see artists coming through citing Fearless/Speak Now maybe even Red as influences. 

We're not. 
By comparison, we're 16 years in since The Fame and people are citing Gaga's The Fame/Fame Monster/BTW as influences. 

For older legacy acts - we're still seeing the likes of MJ & Madonna be cited by new emerging acts 40+ years in. 

I don't think there's a single Taylor Swift album (and I like the majority of them, love some of them even), that has any long lasting legacy/impact. Currently the only ones I think might have any impact in 10 years is Folklore/Evermore.  

I think Taylor will be more of an influence for her songwriting tbf.

[high culture 1,662]

Not that they are at all similar artists or need to be compared, but tbh a Michael Jackson Eras Tour would not be at the level of Taylor Swift Eras tour. He only had a handful of successful eras before he fell off

[NATAH 31,769]

3 hours ago, John Wayne said:

yet, you're still here, actively engaging and rooting for Shake it Off's demise. Just doesn't make sense

and what's wrong with that exactly? a bad song deserves slander 

[StrawberryBlond 13,311]

I may agree with his opinion and all but it really makes him sound out of touch to say that none of her songs have been or will be remembered. Like them or hate them, Love Story, Shake It Off, Blank Space, Look What You Made Me Do and Anti-Hero are probably her most memorable songs, even people who don't like or listen to Taylor are aware of most or some of them. However, older people who only listen to old music and people who don't listen to current music/the radio/watch much tv/hang around online will be unaware of them. And unfortunately, people who fall into these categories seem to think they have a monopoly over the relevancy and legacy of artists. Most of the world doesn't have a music lens as limited as yours and just because you haven't heard of these songs doesn't mean millions of others haven't. And to compare a track to someone else's is odd as they weren't trying to create the track you were comparing it to. Every time a new name rises up the ranks to become one of the biggest names on the planet, there's always an old timer naysaying them. I just wish they realised they're looking just like their grandfathers did when they asked why the youth were listening to The Beatles and The Rolling Stones when Elvis and Sinatra were clearly top tier. Every generation has its stars and this is ours. You can say what you like about them but they've clearly influenced enough people that you shouldn't question it. 

9 hours ago, Bronco said:

I don't think there's a single Taylor Swift album (and I like the majority of them, love some of them even), that has any long lasting legacy/impact. Currently the only ones I think might have any impact in 10 years is Folklore/Evermore.  

I agree with everything you said except this last bit. It's only superfans and critics who are wild about those albums. They also had limited success outside of America because they were so American coded. It was so weird to see Cardigan and Willow go to #1 in America while the rest of the world just passed those singles by. Look at the worldwide single positions of those songs and you'll see they were very niche releases. It's her big pop songs that are widely known.

8 hours ago, John Wayne said:

The funny thing is that people are "so tired of hearing about Taylor Swift", yet they won't stop talking about her. If you don't like her music, or her in general, why waste your precious time hating on her?

1. It's good to have an outlet for your hate in a way that allows you to converse with others so you don't feel you're alone or going mad with your beliefs

2. If we make our dislike louder on a large scale, perhaps it'll encourage radio to stop overplaying her songs, critics to stop over-scoring her and handing her more undeserved awards to her already overflowing collection and it will all result in her not being shoved down our throats as much.

It's the same reasoning for why we're vocal about any dislike. 

[PartySick 135,046]

1 hour ago, high culture said:

Not that they are at all similar artists or need to be compared, but tbh a Michael Jackson Eras Tour would not be at the level of Taylor Swift Eras tour. He only had a handful of successful eras before he fell off

Depends on how you compare them.

MJ's most successful tour was the Bad World Tour so I'll use ha

It was 123 shows with an estimated 4.4 million attending vs Taylor who sold 4.35 million tickets to 60 shows. So, her crowds on average were larger (looks like she booked larger, modern venues), MJ's attendance overall was larger.

More fans = MJ wins in my book

But anyway

Adjusted gross? The Bad Tour, in 2024 money, made about $310 million. A record in its day. Taylor's beaten that three times over.

However, consider that adjusted average ticket price for the Bad Tour would be about $75 today where as Taylor's tickets are in the hundreds at the cheapest, potentially thousands a piece.

They're hard to compare because the nature of touring has changed so much in the last 30 years.

But "he fell off"? Nah

He removed himself from the public eye, sure, but nearly every album he released still holds a record. Every one of his tours was a record setter. Even his return in 2009 crashed ticket selling sites when millions tried to get access to the This Is It O2 residency. Man sold 750,000 tickets in minutes just days before his death

IN SUMMATION:

Taylor's a money maker, MJ was a fan magnet. "The most famous man since Jesus", they say

[Cameltoe Chariot 11,903]

10 hours ago, Bronco said:

He's right tbf. 

I like her songs, I like quite a bit of the new album. But let's face it - we're 18 years in since Taylor's first album in 2006 and by now you'd expect to see artists coming through citing Fearless/Speak Now maybe even Red as influences. 

We're not. 
By comparison, we're 16 years in since The Fame and people are citing Gaga's The Fame/Fame Monster/BTW as influences. 

For older legacy acts - we're still seeing the likes of MJ & Madonna be cited by new emerging acts 40+ years in. 

I don't think there's a single Taylor Swift album (and I like the majority of them, love some of them even), that has any long lasting legacy/impact. Currently the only ones I think might have any impact in 10 years is Folklore/Evermore.  

oh... my god.

You're so right! I haven't heard a single rising star list Taylor or ANY of her songs as an influence.

I can name 10 major acts RIGHT NOW that have named Gaga as a major inspiration for them.

[ChicaSkas 21,096]

11 hours ago, PartySick said:

Whose music does though

He's not the most successful and influential artist in history for no reason hello

This. The only one who comes faintly close is Lady Gaga. 

[phantasmas 8,452]

19 hours ago, Teletubby said:

Peppa Pig, Rita Ora, Dua Lipa, Bebe Rexha, Zara Larsson...

the way I would only support Peppa Pig out of this line up 

[HermioneT 1,899]

20 hours ago, NATAH said:

Shake It Off slander is my favourite, what a god awful song

I actually listened to and love Taylor's music a lot, but hate Shake It Off. It's just a terrible and overall annoying song .

Not entirely sure why there are these ongoing comparisons between two mostly not super comparable careers.

I hope Taylor takes a break after TTPD and touring so everybody can stop comparing, hating her or hating on those who criticise her for a while  I guess we all had heard about and from her a little too much the recent years (however I think it's incredibly impressive how well she plays her game!)

 

[palma 2,224]

People who consume Taylor's music do so almost exclusively and those who don't click with her do not touch her material with a stick. She also doesn't have many undeniably-hit-material singles. Even her biggest hits like Cruel Summer, WANGBT or the 1989 singles have nothing on Rih's, Gaga's or Katy's big hits.  

It's so weird when you think about it, on paper she's like the biggest thing in music history with a MASSIVE, crazy fan base yet I never really heard her music playing in a café or whatever - probably has more to do with where I live but still Madonna, Gaga, Beyoncé, Adele and Rihanna are very well recognized household names compared to her. I always perceived her as the BTS of the white female demographic tbh 

[The Fame Monster 3,373]

I love Michael Jackson's music, and I consider it some of the best pop music there is. While I agree with Neil Tennant that Taylor Swift's music doesn't quite reach the level of Michael's, I still believe Taylor is a legendary artist who will leave behind a great legacy, much like Michael has. Even if she doesn't have a "Billie Jean" in her music catalogue, her impact on the industry is undeniable.

[Bronco 1,948]

11 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I agree with everything you said except this last bit. It's only superfans and critics who are wild about those albums. They also had limited success outside of America because they were so American coded. It was so weird to see Cardigan and Willow go to #1 in America while the rest of the world just passed those singles by. Look at the worldwide single positions of those songs and you'll see they were very niche releases. It's her big pop songs that are widely known.

Not sure I agree.
Caridgan went to the top 10, number 1 in many cases, in Australia, UK, US, Ireland, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Malaysia, Singapore, NZ. And won 2 awards in China. 

Willow charted better in those countries above + charted better in Croatia, Israel, Euro Digital Sales chart, Hungary & hit #2 on the Global 200. And had better year end chart performance. 

I'd not call 2 records that have gone Platinum or even multi-plat in multiple countries as niche. 

But also in terms of impact - it is often the work that superfans are wild about that get cited in the pop field. The people getting into music and embarking on their own pop career as a result of an artist are the superfans. And the existing musicians taking inspiration for their own work are often in tune with the critics - Rock/Metal acts tend to talk about other albums on nearly every promo tour they do lol

I'm not convinced we'll see singer-songwriters in the future citing them, but I genuinely think given that both albums are Taylor's most artistic and narrative they are the most likely. 

[Bronco 1,948]

42 minutes ago, The Fame Monster said:

I love Michael Jackson's music, and I consider it some of the best pop music there is. While I agree with Neil Tennant that Taylor Swift's music doesn't quite reach the level of Michael's, I still believe Taylor is a legendary artist who will leave behind a great legacy, much like Michael has. Even if she doesn't have a "Billie Jean" in her music catalogue, her impact on the industry is undeniable.

I genuinely think the Eras tour is going to be her legacy, much like how people still talk about Madonna's Blonde Ambition tour 30+ years later. 

The Eras tour & the Renaissance tour I really think have set the standard for a stadium tour higher than any pop act has achieved prior. The production, the visuals, the staging are just insane even compared to their own prior stadium tours.