Biden issues a statement on the rise of antisemitism in the U.S

[Dennis 8,391]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Well, I mean, the first person you challenged in this thread said "antisemitism is wrong" before expanding on their opinion of the general situation so...it goes both ways 

 

Well I don't want to debate this any further, but I took a bit of an issue with the "I condemn but". I responded by saying that even if the police previously disbanded their protest, that doesn't give them a pass to turn into full nazis.

I don't know why it's hard for people to condemn stuff like this without if and buts. Really disappointing. Stuff like this doesn't require any nuance. We have students being harassed in a place that's supposed to be safe for them.

[Emvee 8,866]

People are forever conflating Judaism with Zionism and all it does is hurt both jews and Palestinians. What those students said is wrong and they are allowing their anger to lead their politics.  A huge mistake that will only lead to more suffering. 
 

Also, I cannot believe Andy Ngo is still being used as a source here. Deplorable. The fact that HE is a source is suspicious and leads me to believe these students were incited. 

[PartySick 174,546]

Just now, Dennis said:

Well I don't want to debate this any further, but I took a bit of an issue with the "I condemn but". I responded by saying that even if the police previously disbanded their protest, that doesn't give them a pass to turn into full nazis.

I don't know why it's hard for people to condemn stuff like this without if and buts. Really disappointing.

Wouldn't be much of a conversation otherwise

Also, because there is a surrounding and overarching context to it all.

Antisemitism is on the rise because of an improper response to Israel's current crimes against humanity where some fools lay the blame or guilt at the feet of those that share a religious or cultural identity with the genocidal maniacs running that country.

And, again, accusations of antisemitism have been weaponized to chip away at calls for the genocide to end.

Just denouncing hate without giving it context is more of an empty and worthless platitude than a solution or conversation oriented behavior.

[Dennis 8,391]

15 minutes ago, PartySick said:

And, again, accusations of antisemitism have been weaponized to chip away at calls for the genocide to end.

We have human brains. We should be able to process where antisemitism is a real occurrence and where it's being weaponized. If somebody can't tell the difference, it's their issue. I didn't post a video of Netanyahu accusing AOC of antisemitism because she decried his offensive. I posted videos of ACTUAL occurences of antisemitism.

I'm just wary of giving the impression that it's being justified or given context. I think you're not justifying either. 

In my view, nothing can ever justify what's being done in those videos. Complete lunacy, bigotry and ignorance. And we can leave it at that, to not add insult to injury to anyone who may be reading this and may have been impacted.

[Aren 965]

16 minutes ago, high culture said:

What Israel has done to Palestinians in the last 100 years is far far worse than one day of retaliation. The same way you're calling me antisemitic, I can say you're anti-Palestinian. (I'm not antisemitic -- I'm anti Zionist). Your opinion is not automatically the correct one

Judaism is a religion of peace and love, Israel is a far right ethnoreligious state killing off the people who were there before them so they can have their land. The country and the religion are not the same. There are many many anti Zionist Jews (whom I have many who I am proud to call my friend). 
 

Calling antisemitism on people advocating for the end of merciless killing of innocent people is just you deflecting from the fact that you support the genocide

So you acknowledge Jews are an ethnoreligous group. Good. Where does this ‘ethnos’ come from? Israel. Jews are indigenous to Israel.
 

And no, Palestinian Arabs were not there before Jews. Jews have a 3000-year-old continuous presence in the land Israel. Jews eventually became a minority in their own land due to persecution and displacement, and now have their country back.

[Pennywise 36,080]

@PartySick can we ban openly genocidal maniacs, or... 

[PartySick 174,546]

13 minutes ago, Aren said:

So you acknowledge Jews are an ethnoreligous group. Good. Where does this ‘ethnos’ come from? Israel. Jews are indigenous to Israel.
 

And no, Palestinian Arabs were not there before Jews. Jews have a 3000-year-old continuous presence in the land Israel. Jews eventually became a minority in their own land due to persecution and displacement, and now have their country back.

How...is any of this relevant to modern American jews facing antisemitism or the current government and military of Israel enacting a genocide on Gazans alive today (or at least alive recently)?

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,896]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

I took a bit of an issue with the "I condemn but"

There was no "but". My first sentence was "antisemitism is bad" then a period. 

The next statement letting you know that you cited a grifter known for lying about protests in your post about a serious issue we want taken seriously. Because if I posted about a hatecrime and cited Jussie Smullett, people wouldn't take my post seriously. The last statement was pondering whether the protests were mentioned on here when they started without the vitriolic hate or if it was only noteworthy when it became antisemitic because I didn't know if it was brought up before. 

I was trying to help you and also further the conversation beyond just "antisemitism is happening and it is bad" but somehow, instead, those 3 statements gave some people the go-ahead to insinuate I was a toxic, ultra-partisan pro-Hamas antisemite. 

[Dennis 8,391]

7 minutes ago, Roughhouse Dandy said:

last statement was pondering whether the protests were mentioned on here when they started without the vitriolic hate or if it was only noteworthy when it became antisemitic. 

This doesn't make it sound any better, let's just stop. It reminds me of when Trump claimed the Charlottesville protestors were "provoked" into what they did by the counter-protestors. As I said, Columbia's decision to declare the protest unlawful doesn't give them a pass to do what they did. 

There are things you just unequivocally condemn. This is one of them.

[Aren 965]

3 minutes ago, PartySick said:

How...is any of this relevant to modern American jews facing antisemitism or the current government and military of Israel enacting a genocide on Gazans alive today (or at least alive recently)?

American Jews are being shouted at ‘go back to Poland’. Big part of the recent rise in antisemitism is due to misinformation that Jews are not indigenous and are ‘colonizing’ Palestine.

[PartySick 174,546]

5 minutes ago, Aren said:

American Jews are being shouted at ‘go back to Poland’. Big part of the recent rise in antisemitism is due to misinformation that Jews are not indigenous and are ‘colonizing’ Palestine.

Even the UN says Palestine is being occupied by Israel, my guy.

[Roughhouse Dandy 13,896]

29 minutes ago, Dennis said:

This doesn't make it sound any better, let's just stop. It reminds me of when Trump claimed the Charlottesville protestors were "provoked" into what they did by the counter-protestors.

There are things you just unequivocally condemn. This is one of them. 

The protestors that were not being antisemetic were carted away for legally occupying a college quad and now this is happening with the pissed off people the police didn't arrest. Now what's left is largely a group of angry, stubborn people with a bone to pick and hate in their heart instead of a protest simply bringing attention to the genocide of Palestinians. That's the reality of the situation you posted about. I did condemn what's happening now unequivocally more than once. Me mentioning other relevant info about this protest that doesn't simplify into "antisemitism is bad" that I lead with doesn't change that. 

And for you to ignore my other points repeatedly and also not clear up the way you mischaracterized my words, encourage others who were doing the same, keep up Andy's video, and continue to conflate my comments with justifying these protestor's actions is telling. Coming from someone who is ✨️on your side✨️ about this topic?Not a good look at all. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 55,339]

14 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Even the UN says Palestine is being occupied by Israel, my guy.

I think a slightly finer issue this user has touched on has less to do with the imperialism (which Israel, imo, is undoubtedly engaged in), but more with the arguments people often make that the Jewish diaspora is not indigenous to/has no ancestral ties to that region. There’s a contingency of the pro-Palestinian movement that has framed the issue in the context of modern colonialism (ie predominantly white nations occupying foreign countries predominantly inhabited by indigenous POC), which I don’t think is wholly accurate (which also, in turn, links Israel with the idea of white supremacy and also does erase their history). That being said, even if we accept the idea that the Jewish diaspora has ancestral origins in modern day Israel, that by no means implies they have a mandate to oppress the Palestinians.

[PartySick 174,546]

2 minutes ago, Ladle Ghoulash said:

I think a slightly finer issue this user has pointed out has less to do with the imperialism (which Israel, imo, is undoubtedly engaged in), but more with the arguments people often make that the Jewish diaspora is not indigenous to/has no ancestral ties to that region. There’s a contingency of the pro-Palestinian movement that has framed the issue in the context of modern colonialism (ie predominantly white nations occupying foreign countries predominantly inhabited by indigenous POC), which I don’t think is wholly accurate. That being said, even if we accept the idea that the Jewish diaspora has ancestral origins in modern day Israel, that by no means implies they have a mandate to oppress the Palestinians.

Israel, as it is, was created in 1948 and it's been hell for the people that lived there and their descendants since then. I think that's the relevant bit tbh.

I don't even entertain the idea of people being removed from Israel just because their ancestors were given the country in the 1940s. That's about as likely to happen as every American with white or black skin being sent "back" to the UK or Africa respectively.

Like, I'm not gonna argue one way or the other about colonialism, I don't feel that's even close to the most pressing issue related to this whole...deal.

Israel's current government and military leadership is commiting atrocities, that's problem #1 right there. In response to Israel's crimes, Jews across the world are taking heat from idiots who conflate their identity with genocide. That's problem #2.

Reaching back 3,000 years to argue over land rights and race seems so pointless to me. That discussion can be had when Israeli and Palestinian leadership sit down to discuss a final solution to this conflict.

But I also just don't fully understand arguments over land rights to begin with. Whether it's immigration or your ancestors' colonialism or whatever. Live where you do/wanna live and do it peacefully, why do we have to make up so many imaginary problems 

[Dennis 8,391]

9 minutes ago, PartySick said:

But I also just don't fully understand arguments over land rights to begin with. Whether it's immigration or your ancestors' colonialism or whatever. Live where you do/wanna live and do it peacefully, why do we have to make up so many imaginary problems 

I just wanted to say I agree with this.

I really don't like this nativist argument. If somebody is going to criticize Israel, there's better grounds for that, than to try to question "who was here first".

Crazy how some white Americans for example have the audacity to talk about "land back", when they'd be the first to be kicked out if we applied this principle universally.

And today we live in a day and age where people constantly move and immigrate. This concept of "purity test"as it relates to indigeniety  is so stupid.