Anitta and Sam Smith shelved collaboration to be released

[27monster27 11,119]

36 minutes ago, Catnikko said:

just because sam is gay doesn't mean every queer person has to like what they were doing 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people should at least be proud that they are trying to push boundaries for sexuality.

[Bronco 5,743]

32 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

Try to look at it without hindsight. You didn't want to support it then when you should have.

Because it wasn't interesting? 
Unholy was nothing other queer & non queer acts haven't done since sexual liberation. And many have done better songs & better visuals and included them on better bodies of work. 

Besides the visuals, which really didn't fit the actual sound of the album, Gloria was nothing new as a body of work in Sam's discography. In fact this made the visuals look even more disingenuine. 

No one cared about whether or not other queers liked Sam Smith and their music until Sam Smith suddenly decided to go provocative - and it's no denying elements of fatphobia in society played an impact in the backlash, but the simple fact remains that Sam Smith didn't do anything that felt genuine in the era. There was no prior work in this fashion & clearly no commitment to it either. 

[Catnikko 13,697]

45 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people should at least be proud that they are trying to push boundaries for sexuality.

I get what you're saying but i honestly don't feel like that was the result of what they were doing, I actually think it did the opposite

[27monster27 11,119]

57 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Because it wasn't interesting? 
Unholy was nothing other queer & non queer acts haven't done since sexual liberation. And many have done better songs & better visuals and included them on better bodies of work. 

Besides the visuals, which really didn't fit the actual sound of the album, Gloria was nothing new as a body of work in Sam's discography. In fact this made the visuals look even more disingenuine. 

No one cared about whether or not other queers liked Sam Smith and their music until Sam Smith suddenly decided to go provocative - and it's no denying elements of fatphobia in society played an impact in the backlash, but the simple fact remains that Sam Smith didn't do anything that felt genuine in the era. There was no prior work in this fashion & clearly no commitment to it either. 

There was no prior because Sam Smith was in the process of exploring their sexuality. If their art was their conduit for it, then that is fine. Saying that other queer acts did it "better" is really invalidating. Sexual liberation should not be a comparison.

[Bronco 5,743]

12 minutes ago, 27monster27 said:

There was no prior because Sam Smith was in the process of exploring their sexuality. If their art was their conduit for it, then that is fine. Saying that other queer acts did it "better" is really invalidating. Sexual liberation should not be a comparison.

Sexual liberation is not capitalistic pop music babes. When someone is only talking about the topic in the context of promoting a single, it is not sexual liberation it is marketing. Especially as Sam Smith isn't an activist, they give interviews and talk about past exps which I do applaud, but Sam Smith doesn't speak out much from their platform about political issues inc sexual lib and body positivity. Hell, in 2020 Sam Smith was dating a member of the Brexit campaign staff team. 

"Exploring their sexuality" is not releasing a singular dirty song with an additional sexualised video for another song, that is shock tactics. 

My point about others having done the same, but to a better lyrical standard etc was because of this comment: 

1 hour ago, 27monster27 said:

I'm saying that people should at least be proud that they are trying to push boundaries for sexuality.

They didn't push any boundaries that other queers haven't pushed. Lets not create smoke where there's no fire. I think we should celebrate Unholy getting the 1st number 1 for a Trans & NB singer (Kim & Sam respectively). 
But the song didn't push boundaries as a piece of work itself. 

There are absolutely people who went to extreme lengths to hate Sam Smith for daring to exist as a fat queer in sexual spaces, undeniable. 
But lets not invent alternate realities where a song about a man cheating on his wife by going to a strip club is somehow pushing boundaries. 
Let's also not pretend that a music video referencing kinks is pushing boundaries.
You can't push boundaries that have already been pushed and nothing in the song or the video are new concepts for pop music. Madonna, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Lizzo, Kim Petras, Slayyyter, Gaga, Bronski Beat, Man2Man, Tyler Glenn, Gossip, Scissor Sisters, Bette Midler, Pet Shop Boys. All have music that talk about body positivity, sexual liberation, fetish, queerness and so forth. 

I have nothing against people liking Sam Smith, they personally aren't my cup of tea but I can see the appeal of their music. I just don't get this weird religious like zealotry for someone who's very very basic. 

 

[moonsago 6,518]

Wait... Sam Smith is rebranding? Lmao where did ya’ll get this? I knew Sam was gonna regret the mess that was 2022-2023, that sh*t was the most unauthentic and forced thing a popstar has done since Joanne. 

[Nutella 3,959]

7 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Sexual liberation is not capitalistic pop music babes. When someone is only talking about the topic in the context of promoting a single, it is not sexual liberation it is marketing.

2 hours ago, 27monster27 said:

people should at least be proud that they are trying to push boundaries for sexuality.

Man this one is complicated. But I think these are two big takeaways.

My two cents: Sam wasn't doing anything groundbreaking... to us. But there are up-and-coming generations that will need someone to look to as a role model for daring and self-loving behavior (however artificial it is/feels coming from said role model)

Personally, I feel the revealing clothes always wore Sam, not the other way around. Just personal taste. But I think their contributions to pop culture will be important to someone, somewhere, at some point.

You guys are all so smart haha

[TEANUS 12,427]

I read Ariana and the GASP I let out 

Sorry for her and her fans tho 

[ThisGuyTony 29,065]

“Rebranding” is giving the same energy as Katy’s focus groups for NRO and KP5 

[27monster27 11,119]

30 minutes ago, Bronco said:

Sexual liberation is not capitalistic pop music babes. When someone is only talking about the topic in the context of promoting a single, it is not sexual liberation it is marketing. Especially as Sam Smith isn't an activist, they give interviews and talk about past exps which I do applaud, but Sam Smith doesn't speak out much from their platform about political issues inc sexual lib and body positivity. Hell, in 2020 Sam Smith was dating a member of the Brexit campaign staff team. 

This overt hate of capitalism (not entirely underserved) and celebrity culture is one of the biggest issues I have with social movements, because it consistently acts as a block to recognizing the importance of activism from people with platforms. Mind you I am saying this as a proud left-wing activist myself.

32 minutes ago, Bronco said:

They didn't push any boundaries that other queers haven't pushed. Lets not create smoke where there's no fire. I think we should celebrate Unholy getting the 1st number 1 for a Trans & NB singer (Kim & Sam respectively). 
But the song didn't push boundaries as a piece of work itself. 

I don't understand why this is a problem. Just because other people did it doesn't mean they can't do it. This honestly (whether intentional or not) comes off as invalidating Sam Smith in what they do.

40 minutes ago, Bronco said:

There are absolutely people who went to extreme lengths to hate Sam Smith for daring to exist as a fat queer in sexual spaces, undeniable. 
But lets not invent alternate realities where a song about a man cheating on his wife by going to a strip club is somehow pushing boundaries. 
Let's also not pretend that a music video referencing kinks is pushing boundaries.
You can't push boundaries that have already been pushed and nothing in the song or the video are new concepts for pop music. Madonna, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, Lizzo, Kim Petras, Slayyyter, Gaga, Bronski Beat, Man2Man, Tyler Glenn, Gossip, Scissor Sisters, Bette Midler, Pet Shop Boys. All have music that talk about body positivity, sexual liberation, fetish, queerness and so forth. 

I think you are misconstruing what the argument is with this. They are using the song as a conduit to showcase their sexuality as a queer male in pop music.

Also, I encourage you to do some research on how kink and fetish have been a part of LGBTQ+ activism. Movements like fat fetishism and others have been instrumental in body confidence and fighting for queer sexual liberation.

[Bronco 5,743]

18 hours ago, 27monster27 said:

This overt hate of capitalism (not entirely underserved) and celebrity culture is one of the biggest issues I have with social movements, because it consistently acts as a block to recognizing the importance of activism from people with platforms. Mind you I am saying this as a proud left-wing activist myself.

18 hours ago, Bronco said:

They didn't push any boundaries that other queers haven't pushed. Lets not create smoke where there's no fire. I think we should celebrate Unholy getting the 1st number 1 for a Trans & NB singer (Kim & Sam respectively). 
But the song didn't push boundaries as a piece of work itself. 

Expand  

I don't understand why this is a problem. Just because other people did it doesn't mean they can't do it. This honestly (whether intentional or not) comes off as invalidating Sam Smith in what they do.

Its a problem because by claiming the latest as ground breaking you invalidate who actually broke the ground. 

My entire problem is you are invalidating the activism that gave Sam Smith the platform they have. Sam Smith is not an activist, they rarely speak out through their platform & actively pursued a relationship with a right wing bigot in 2020. 

I don't need to educate myself on how kink has been a part of activism. 1) I was citing examples where fetish has been used for activism by Sam's musical predecessors. Like Frankie Goes to Hollywood's Relax, George Michael's Outside and Scissor Sisters's Filthy Gorgeous & Tits on the Radio as examples. 

2) I've actively researched and presented at academic conferences on the role of **** actors & other sex workers in promoting & creating PrEP educational materials. 

3) I'm an active member of the queer fetish community. 

[Bronco 5,743]

18 hours ago, JessFletch said:

My two cents: Sam wasn't doing anything groundbreaking... to us. But there are up-and-coming generations that will need someone to look to as a role model for daring and self-loving behavior (however artificial it is/feels coming from said role model)

I do agree that to young queers it may have given them something. My big issue is the word ground breaking.

Its not. Even if it may be something "new" in the eyes of the newer generation. Labelling it groundbreaking discredits the work that Sam Smith followed. And lets face it Sam Smith and their fans have form for ignoring Queers who have achieved before them...

[nATAH 42,279]

On 3/1/2024 at 6:18 PM, 27monster27 said:

Why is everyone calling that era messy? LGBTQ+ people should be supporting their sexual freedom, not hating it. I don't get it.

just because it's queer and sexual doesn't automatically make it good

it was very hard to watch

[tylerjs 5,424]

Ive always found Sam smith to be absolutely insufferable in every way tbh. The voice is like nails on a chalkboard, personality seems to be unbearably embarrassing and try-hard, no sense of style or originality, no sense of artistic direction. It’s a shame they have such a large platform when so many other talented, enjoyable artists could be there instead

[Auther 22,080]

21 hours ago, 27monster27 said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that people should at least be proud that they are trying to push boundaries for sexuality.

Being gay is already stigmatized about being overly sexual. What is there to be proud about when that is an entire image? Not really understanding.

What boundaries are being pushed in sexuality in a world where even gay people don’t attend pride because of the overtly sexual nature of some pride events?

The Gloria brand wasn’t about pushing boundaries. It was about provocation. 

Edited March 2 by Agunimon