Grimes: "I'm called a Nazi because I happily am proud of white culture"

[BUtterfield 8 40,426]

She needs to worry about Elon and her custody battle 

[Economy 46,193]

12 hours ago, Didymus said:

 

Some of the things she says make sense. White people have received a level of historical scrutiny (powered by Western postmodernist intellectual culture, which should be commended for this) that is not regularly thrown at other cultural units. The Eastern or Arab-Muslim slave trade, for instance, has abducted millions of African people into slavery for over a thousand years, and to say that out loud almost feels taboo at this point. This is a problem.

Somewhat agree here. Just about every race has at some point conquered land, taken slaves, oppressed other ppl throughout all of human history all over the world. This is not a "white people" thing. This is a human race thing

 

Even the 1st Nations white ppl colonized from. Ppl generalize them as 1 people and forget they actually were not. Most tribes were not united and fought eachother and in reality the land that was stollen was probably not stollen from the original owners but probably had changed hands multiple times over between them (not that it excuses the atrocites of the Europeans nevertheless)

 

I think what happens is that on a large scale in more recent history white ppl have been the opressors and biggest benefeciaries from colonization and so its more fresh in ppls minds and in historical records and also more impacts still lingering today

 

I think its natural for white colonisation to get emphasized more than others for those reasons. But to act like abusing power and opressing is inherent to being white exclusively is seriously throwing under the rug the entire history of humanity going back thousands of years.

 

Nearly all races have been guilty of these things. But who has had the most power and done the most harm has varied throughout human history depending what time period were looking at.

 

For example the Egypcians And Assyrians were pretty darn ruthless when they were major powers to name a couple examples

[gumzy3000 6,818]

It's weird to say white culture like it is to say black culture, yellow culture, brown culture, etc. Why not just say European culture or specify a country? Seems odd all around. I definitely don't see Grimes or Elon as neonazis... You people saying that sound dumb af and should target your criticisms at the real neonazis in Israel and white supremacists groups in Europe/US. 

[Didymus 34,020]

59 minutes ago, Economy said:

I think what happens is that on a large scale in more recent history white ppl have been the opressors and biggest benefeciaries from colonization and so its more fresh in ppls minds and in historical records and also more impacts still lingering today

Ánd:

White/Western academics have evolved historical discourse to the point of deconstructing specifically Western ideology

A large chunk of today's awareness about white crimes comes from the willingness of Western intellectuals to question their own history. I feel like this is often forgotten. Yes, it was helped along by decolonialist movements etc. but it sure is a historical anomaly for a culture to start a process of self-analysis on the level of scale and sophistication as has happened in the West.

If other cultures did this, they would also focus on their own role and agency in history, and we would all learn more and be more on equal footing. But this rarely happens (and if it does, it is often through exposure to Western academic education). That's ok, 'cause the West shouldn't be the standard, but it's something to think about.

The European and American far right are essentially trying to stop this self-deconstructive trend in Western academic thought because they think it amounts to self-annihilation. They are not just blaming immigrants and non-whites for everything, they are also blaming white intellectuals for cultural studies and its postcolonialist discourse, and how it seeps into the mainstream.

Edited January 1 by Didymus

[gumzy3000 6,818]

2 hours ago, Didymus said:

Ánd:

White/Western academics have evolved historical discourse to the point of deconstructing specifically Western ideology

A large chunk of today's awareness about white crimes comes from the willingness of Western intellectuals to question their own history. I feel like this is often forgotten. Yes, it was helped along by decolonialist movements etc. but it sure is a historical anomaly for a culture to start a process of self-analysis on the level of scale and sophistication as has happened in the West.

If other cultures did this, they would also focus on their own role and agency in history, and we would all learn more and be more on equal footing. But this rarely happens (and if it does, it is often through exposure to Western academic education). That's ok, 'cause the West shouldn't be the standard, but it's something to think about.

The European and American far right are essentially trying to stop this self-deconstructive trend in Western academic thought because they think it amounts to self-annihilation. They are not just blaming immigrants and non-whites for everything, they are also blaming white intellectuals for cultural studies and its postcolonialist discourse, and how it seeps into the mainstream.

I agree with this but I don't think it's fair to say only white / western people evolved western ideology to the point it was able to self reflect and critic itself. I am sure a lot of POC and non westerners contributed to this as well. In fact, I would say they are just as important as they show their perspective and that creates new ways of thinking and ideas.

Even non western / white countries might view their own history from a western lens because of their recent colonial history. India or Mexico are examples of this. It's hard for these cultures to self reflect and criticise thier people's own wrongdoings when they are still not fully over the long lasting effects of colonialism from the western/white world.

We also have to remember that white people were able to rapidly progress in the past 500 years and they became the most powerful group of people history has ever seen. Of course thier academic standards would improve and eventually give them the ability to critic their own race/culture. Colonized and oppressed people did not have the opportunity to advance in this regard.

Edited January 1 by gumzy3000

[Didymus 34,020]

37 minutes ago, gumzy3000 said:

I agree with this but I don't think it's fair to say only white / western people evolved western ideology to the point it was able to self reflect and critic itself. I am sure a lot of POC and non westerners contributed to this as well. In fact, I would say they are just as important as they show their perspective and that creates new ways of thinking and ideas.

Even non western / white countries might view their own history from a western lens because of their recent colonial history. India or Mexico are examples of this. It's hard for these cultures to self reflect and criticise thier people's own wrongdoings when they are still not fully over the long lasting effects of colonialism from the western/white world.

We also have to remember that white people were able to rapidly progress in the past 500 years and they became the most powerful group of people history has ever seen. Of course thier academic standards would improve and eventually give them the ability to critic their own race/culture. Colonized and oppressed people did not have the opportunity to advance in this regard.

100% agree with this also. I meant "white/Western" to include Western (educated) POC, who have indeed contributed and still contribute massively to postcolonialism, but that was probably not clear and not entirely fair anyway, as you say.

And there are in fact great and thought-provoking examples of cultures applying similar discourse. The 2009 Civil Rights Congress of Nigeria is the classic one, which concluded: "We cannot continue to blame the white men, as Africans, particularly the traditional rulers, are not blameless. ... In view of the fact that the Americans and Europe have accepted the cruelty of their roles and have forcefully apologised, it would be logical, reasonable and humbling if African traditional rulers ... accept blame and formally apologise to the descendants of the victims of their collaborative and exploitative slave trade." Source

These academic/humanitarian developments just rarely reach mainstream conversation 'cause... more fun to just stick to the white people need to apologize for everything routine. Which, again, understandable but probably counter-productive.

Edited January 1 by Didymus

[djBuffoon 11,962]

18 hours ago, RahrahWitch said:

White culture is such a dog whistle term. You can have national or regional cultures with predominantly white population like British or Irish but nobody really uses the term "white culture" because all that does is try to create a racial divide (for obvious racist reasons) when nationality is the key component.

This, precisely. 

[andreas85 384]

She follows Andrew Tate (I don't have to explain this) and Rita Panahi (Australian "journalist" obsessed with posting far-right stuff) on twitter so neo-nazi accusations aren't really that suprising nor unfair.

[Economy 46,193]

9 hours ago, gumzy3000 said:

I agree with this but I don't think it's fair to say only white / western people evolved western ideology to the point it was able to self reflect and critic itself. I am sure a lot of POC and non westerners contributed to this as well. In fact, I would say they are just as important as they show their perspective and that creates new ways of thinking and ideas.

Even non western / white countries might view their own history from a western lens because of their recent colonial history. India or Mexico are examples of this. It's hard for these cultures to self reflect and criticise thier people's own wrongdoings when they are still not fully over the long lasting effects of colonialism from the western/white world.

We also have to remember that white people were able to rapidly progress in the past 500 years and they became the most powerful group of people history has ever seen. Of course thier academic standards would improve and eventually give them the ability to critic their own race/culture. Colonized and oppressed people did not have the opportunity to advance in this regard.

Agreed. Self reflection in the West would not have occured so easily if the oppresed didnt stand up and speak out about it. So white ppl didnt do the change on their own.

 

 

Edited January 1 by Economy

[PartySick 142,162]

Ah yes, white culture. From the exact same people that brought you such hits as "All Lives Matter", "Back the Blue", and "Make America Great Again".

Not sure why Grimes or anyone here is giving this even a shred of validity. Nobody's talking about European cultures here, this movement (or whatever you wanna call it) comes directly from American whites not feeling special enough because black Americans do have a distinctly American culture and identity that's independent from their national ancestry but still very much based on their blackness.

21 hours ago, Debithius said:

So European culture that has been evolving since 55.000 BC is nothing to be proud of according to some of y'all? 

Also let's not start talking about bad things white people have done. Literally every single culture/race on this planet has done unspeakable things and continue to do so. I get what Grimes is saying and it doesn't mean you're a Nazi because you love your own culture. This some conditioned self-hate, sheesh.

If she wants to take part in French, Italian, or Ukrainian traditions and culture then nobody would bat an eye. Or hell, whatever traditions they have in Montreal or even new age west coast cultures 'cause I'm pretty sure she lives in California.

But there is no culture in which the only defining factor is "I have light skin" and that's exactly what she's referring to, whether she knows it or not, because this is an American debate.

"White culture" makes as much sense as "straight pride" and it's virtually a synonym with "white pride", only one step removed from "white power", so she deserves those accusations of nazism 'cause she's lending validity to their toxic and bigoted bullsh*t, even if she's just being her usual pick-me "contrarian because I think it makes me sound smart to always have the dissenting opinion" self.

[PartySick 142,162]

15 hours ago, Economy said:

I think what happens is that on a large scale in more recent history white ppl have been the opressors and biggest benefeciaries from colonization and so its more fresh in ppls minds and in historical records and also more impacts still lingering today

Not only this but the direct and more severe consequences of subjugation at the hands of white people are still around in countries like the US, which, I've been told, is the center of the universe or something

But yeah, there's millions still living with the scars of segregation and bigotry in a country whose state borders are still built around where it was and wasn't legal to own their great great grandparents as property (the Mason and Dixon line).

Edited January 1 by PartySick

[Debithius 5,407]

10 minutes ago, PartySick said:

Ah yes, white culture. From the exact same people that brought you such hits as "All Lives Matter", "Back the Blue", and "Make America Great Again".

Not sure why Grimes or anyone here is giving this even a shred of validity. Nobody's talking about European cultures here, this movement (or whatever you wanna call it) comes directly from American whites not feeling special enough because black Americans do have a distinctly American culture and identity that's independent from their national ancestry but still very much based on their blackness.

If she wants to take part in French, Italian, or Ukrainian traditions and culture then nobody would bat an eye. Or hell, whatever traditions they have in Montreal or even new age west coast cultures 'cause I'm pretty sure she lives in California.

But there is no culture in which the only defining factor is "I have light skin" and that's exactly what she's referring to, whether she knows it or not, because this is an American debate.

"White culture" makes as much sense as "straight pride" and it's virtually a synonym with "white pride", only one step removed from "white power", so she deserves those accusations of nazism 'cause she's lending validity to their toxic and bigoted bullsh*t, even if she's just being her usual pick-me "contrarian because I think it makes me sound smart to always have the dissenting opinion" self.

Of course there is. A lot of traditions and cultures are exclusively practiced by people with light skin just as Asians have their culture and traditions and the same goes for Africans.

[PartySick 142,162]

1 minute ago, Debithius said:

Of course there is. A lot of traditions and cultures are exclusively practiced by people with light skin just as Asians have their culture and traditions and the same goes for Africans.

I-

Do you know how many cultures exist in Asia and Africa? And how NONE of them are based on their race?

I think you missed my point entirely.

[Debithius 5,407]

2 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I-

Do you know how many cultures exist in Asia and Africa? And how NONE of them are based on their race?

I think you missed my point entirely.

Apparently.

[Economy 46,193]

1 hour ago, PartySick said:

Not only this but the direct and more severe consequences of subjugation at the hands of white people are still around in countries like the US, which, I've been told, is the center of the universe or something

But yeah, there's millions still living with the scars of segregation and bigotry in a country whose state borders are still built around where it was and wasn't legal to own their great great grandparents as property (the Mason and Dixon line).

I mean, what u mentioned is exactly the kind of stuff i was refering to in my last part when I said "and also more impacts still lingering today"

 

But since I didnt elaborate, thanks for expanding. The US and lingering racial disparities was very much among the top examples I was thinking of when I said that

Edited January 1 by Economy