Colorado Supreme Court removes Trump from 2024 ballot based on 14th Amendment

[r4therupbeat 1,587]

why is he not in prison 3 years ago. American's system is taking too long 

[kurtz 52]

The Constitution is the foundation of US government but it is subject to interpretation. The US Supreme Court has final say and I would guess that most justices will be extremely reluctant to dramatically affect a presidential election without an ironclad case. 

The Court got involved in the 2000 election in Bush v Gore and I think recently passed justice O’Connor regretted that it happened. 
 

Trump hasn’t been even charged with insurrection. Trying to derail his candidacy thru legal means is starting to sound like desperation by Democrats who are deathly afraid he’s going to win. 
 

 

[Bronco 25,127]

1 hour ago, Okinawa said:

BBC writes

The BBC isn't wrong about the potentials (if SCOTUS upholds it) - but I wouldn't cite the BBC for anything related to American politics. Their American political coverage is some of the worst I've seen, they really half arse it. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 52,941]

14 minutes ago, kurtz said:

The Constitution is the foundation of US government but it is subject to interpretation. The US Supreme Court has final say and I would guess that most justices will be extremely reluctant to dramatically affect a presidential election without an ironclad case. 

The Court got involved in the 2000 election in Bush v Gore and I think recently passed justice O’Connor regretted that it happened. 
 

Trump hasn’t been even charged with insurrection. Trying to derail his candidacy thru legal means is starting to sound like desperation by Democrats who are deathly afraid he’s going to win. 
 

 

The Constitution doesn’t explicitly require conviction. Also, again, if Trump were wholesale disqualified, that would be a largely self-inflicted wound by Republicans for nominating someone as compromised as Trump. 

[Inactive 698]

On 12/20/2023 at 9:00 AM, bionic said:

If the Constitution is the backbone of American democracy and binds the institutions within American democracy, then its application is upholding democracy, not a threat to it.

If the Colorado Supreme Court (or whoever) have legitimately and correctly applied the Constitution and thus deemed Trump to be an ineligible candidate, then its not their fault that the Republicans continue to run him as a candidate.

I agree in general with your post that I'd rather Trump not be disqualified on a technicality and he should be formally convicted etc, but if the Court is correctly applying THE most important document in US constitutional law then thats not an affront to democracy. It would be worse if they concluded the Constitution barred him but allowed him to run anyway

.

[Ladle Ghoulash 52,941]

2 minutes ago, LilMissThang said:

The constitution is vague and archaic + it's interpretation is constantly debated and changed by courts. The U.S. really wasn't a democracy until the 1900s, and if you think we should solely follow the constitution to uphold democracy you'd probably be displeased to learn about the many amendments that ended slavery, gave women the right to vote, allowed those who didn't own property to vote, and ended slaves counting as three/fifths a person for political representation. As much as I dislike Trump, the left's attempt to get him off polls is likely going to backfire. Especially when there is selective enforcement of laws (Trump is -rightfully- impeached for asking Ukraine to investigate Biden family but Biden has faced little to no consequences so far for taking hundreds of thousands from Ukraine without reporting it as income and paying taxes: https://www.wsj.com/us-news/law/hunter-bidens-foreign-dealings-spell-more-trouble-ahead-19e3a465 ) Just like the gun issue, the constitution can be interpreted in many ways legally (i.e. whether arms can include any type of firearm invented since, whether individuals or militias have the right to bear arms, etc, etc). If the left continues to selectively prosecute their political rivals while giving their side get-out-of-jail free cards, it's only going to strengthen "drain the swamp" and "liberal elite political corruption" rhetoric which may backfire whether the candidate is Trump or Ron DeSantis vs Biden. Given the economy, wars, Biden's age, etc, it's just giving the right more fuel for their fire.

(https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/09/scholars-warn-of-danger-in-an-outdated-constitution-democracy-tyranny-of-the-minority/) 

In what world is this a selective prosecution of their political opponents and who has been given a “get out of jail free card?” 

[Inactive 698]

On 12/20/2023 at 11:28 AM, Ladle Ghoulash said:

The Constitution doesn’t explicitly require conviction. Also, again, if Trump were wholesale disqualified, that would be a largely self-inflicted wound by Republicans for nominating someone as compromised as Trump. 

.

[Inactive 698]

On 12/20/2023 at 11:39 AM, Ladle Ghoulash said:

In what world is this a selective prosecution of their political opponents and who has been given a “get out of jail free card?” 

.

[Ladle Ghoulash 52,941]

1 minute ago, LilMissThang said:

I think this decision will fuel more "liberal elite political corruption" and "drain the swamp" rhetoric even if the nominee is Ron DeSantis vs Biden. Personally, I'm more concerned about DeSantis becoming president right now because I think he is more likely to win and his anti-LGBT laws,  death penalty laws that expand crimes included and don't require unanimous votes, lots of reasons to be concerned. 

They’re going to use that rhetoric no matter what. I don’t care how they spin it because I ultimately think it is Constitutionally justified. What’s more: DeSantis is polling at 14% and will not win the nomination, much less the general election. 

[Ladle Ghoulash 52,941]

3 minutes ago, LilMissThang said:

Hunter Biden, https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/08/politics/hunter-biden-charges-what-matters/index.html, even the IRS is coming forward saying they were politically pressured to give him a plea deal  This has been a big news story this past year..

He’s literally being prosecuted by the DOJ. In what world is that a “get out of jail free” card?  Also: plea deals are not uncommon in cases like this. George Santos has also been offered a plea deal in his fraud case.

[kurtz 52]

I saw a recent poll that said 46% of Americans think the legal prosecutions of Trump are politically motivated. That’s an alarming number. When people see Trump now leading in every poll and then there are all these legal efforts to keep him from winning, it just reinforces their thinking that “They are out to get him.”  In fact it makes Trump even stronger politically. 
 

There are lots of Americans that are thinking “If The NY Times, CNN and these media giants and celebrities and leading Democrats are all so strongly against Trump there must be something good about him.” That’s just how many people think and they have their reasons  

 

[Inactive 698]

On 12/20/2023 at 11:46 AM, Ladle Ghoulash said:

He’s literally being prosecuted by the DOJ. In what world is that a “get out of jail free” card?  Also: plea deals are not uncommon in cases like this. George Santos has also been offered a plea deal in his fraud case.

.

[Inactive 698]

On 12/20/2023 at 11:49 AM, kurtz said:

I saw a recent poll that said 46% of Americans think the legal prosecutions of Trump are politically motivated. That’s an alarming number. When people see Trump now leading in every poll and then there are all these legal efforts to keep him from winning, it just reinforces their thinking that “They are out to get him.”  In fact it makes Trump even stronger politically. 
 

There are lots of Americans that are thinking “If The NY Times, CNN and these media giants and celebrities and leading Democrats are all so strongly against Trump there must be something good about him.” That’s just how many people think and they have their reasons  

 

.

[Ladle Ghoulash 52,941]

6 minutes ago, kurtz said:

I saw a recent poll that said 46% of Americans think the legal prosecutions of Trump are politically motivated. That’s an alarming number. When people see Trump now leading in every poll and then there are all these legal efforts to keep him from winning, it just reinforces their thinking that “They are out to get him.”  In fact it makes Trump even stronger politically. 
 

There are lots of Americans that are thinking “If The NY Times, CNN and these media giants and celebrities and leading Democrats are all so strongly against Trump there must be something good about him.” That’s just how many people think and they have their reasons  

 

And here’s a poll suggesting that 2/3 of Americans think the 1/6 charges are serious

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/thirds-americans-jan-6-charges-trump-poll/story?id=101954747
 

Sure, the GOP will campaign on this issue, but that doesn’t mean it will necessarily convince people that aren’t already inclined to believe it.

[Ladle Ghoulash 52,941]

3 minutes ago, LilMissThang said:

Well there's pressure to prosecute him like anyone else would be, and also internal political pressure to give him a plea and drop charges like I said. They dropped federal charges and only pursued misdemeanors. Former IRS agents have called it a sweetheart deal. https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/21/hunter-biden-plea-deal-experts-00102996#:~:text=Republicans are bashing the agreement,the truth is more complicated.

He’s still being charged with three felonies and I personally don’t see any compelling evidence that anything politically motivated is happening here.