Istanbul's Hagia Sofia will no longer be free to visit by foreign tourists

[Economy 52,844]

58 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

The issue is that the conversion from a museum to a church was billed as a way to make entrance free for everybody. And now that it was made into a mosque, the fee is back. 

 

How long ago was it made into a church before mosque?

[Evil R 1,084]

8 hours ago, MelbHawker said:

Hagia Sophia was built as a Christian Orthodox Church though.. it’s what it is. It’s not an extremist opinion to hold. It remains the symbol of Greek Orthodoxy to this day.

It is an extremist opinion. It was a church... was...more than 600 years ago. The city was captured and it was converted. This is how things works. It is not the first religious building that was converted. There are many across the world. The last state of the building was a mosque before turning into a museum. One would argue that it remains a symbol for the fall or conquest of Constantinople to this day and it holds special meaning too.

So it should remain a museum.

[Pennywise 36,080]

Did y’all know that only like very important people have been buried in Hagia Sophia, but also Gli, the cat who lived there between 2004-2020? I’m crying 

[dit 46,738]

On 11/7/2023 at 4:23 PM, r4therupbeat said:

so free for the Greeks right?

I always see this lol and yes Hagia Sophia was originally a church but the Ottomans did beautify it even more tbh so lets give credit where it's due. It's a beautiful mix of both Greek and Turkish architecture tbh. Wish it was a museaum still but it's ok I guess...

[dit 46,738]

On 11/7/2023 at 8:32 PM, LoliLux said:

Indeed. When the US will be looking away in a possible upcoming war over Taiwan, Turkey will snatch some Greek islands, it already is heavily militarizing for a while and shamelessly bombing Syria

In my opinion, Hagia Sofia should be a church as it is a symbol for Greek Christianity.

(if you want to reply, you can do it in the Transnistria topic, to package our discussion in one topic. I wanted to add that, Romania was not only under Soviet influence, there was a time it was under the influence of the Ottoman empire. And if NATO falls apart, Turkey might want to bring back its influence on you. Look at what they are doing to Syria...both Russia and Turkey have imperial ambitions and you are inbetween)

 

Does this mean you think the Grand Mosque Cathedral of Cordoba should be turned back to a Mosque since it was build from scratch as a mosque? (there are some unproven debates that it was a church but apparently if there was one it was destroyed before the current Cordoba Mosque Cathedral was built.

Point is the Hagia Sophia was made into a mosque 600 years ago already. It just had a few decades as a museum. I personally think it should remain a museum because it captures the beautify of both Greek and Ottoman architecture (you do realize that more than just the medallions were added right? lots of the beautiful exterior parts were added by the Ottomans) etc. 

[Ayesha Erotica 1,924]

3 hours ago, dit said:

Does this mean you think the Grand Mosque Cathedral of Cordoba should be turned back to a Mosque since it was build from scratch as a mosque?

This is an interesting question since I was this autumn/late summer in Granada and southern Andalusia and the Alhambra plays a big role there, and it is typical for Andalusia to have had religious buildings changing religious hands back and forth. I cannot answer your question with strong conviction because I am only somewhat but not deeply informed about it. I do believe, considering that Turkey has been persecuting Christians and closing so many churches in the past decades (Turkey was 20% Christian at the beginning of 20th century, it now is below 1%), that Hagia Sofia should become a Christian church again because otherwise there is almost nothing big left of Christianity which was big in Turkey once. Being a museum is the worst solution as it is against the very idea of a church, of any religious building. That being said, I don't know how many big and famous mosques there are in Spain, if there is a sufficient number, I'd say no, if however the situation is similair to Turkey (in a vice versa sense), then yes.

[FfFfFfFF 58,083]

7 hours ago, dit said:

Does this mean you think the Grand Mosque Cathedral of Cordoba should be turned back to a Mosque since it was build from scratch as a mosque? (there are some unproven debates that it was a church but apparently if there was one it was destroyed before the current Cordoba Mosque Cathedral was built.

Point is the Hagia Sophia was made into a mosque 600 years ago already. It just had a few decades as a museum. I personally think it should remain a museum because it captures the beautify of both Greek and Ottoman architecture (you do realize that more than just the medallions were added right? lots of the beautiful exterior parts were added by the Ottomans) etc. 

The Ottoman additions are minimal to the building though (but they do exist - the minarets, the medalions, the mihrab). Personally I would also love for Hagia Sofia to be a church or a museum, but the biggest impediment to being a church is that Istanbul no longer has a sizeable Orthodox population. I believe the small sized church in Fanar has enough space to fill in the active Orthodox population. As for Cordoba I don't feel like it concerns me because I see it as a Catholic issue. When Cordoba was converted, the Eastern and Western churches were already separated so people in the east do not really have an emotional connection to it.

[FfFfFfFF 58,083]

11 hours ago, Economy said:

How long ago was it made into a church before mosque?

The question can be explained in more ways: for instance to many Greeks in never oficially stopped being a church - it just became a church used as a mosque. It was the main center of the Eastern Christian Church, the biggest church in the entire world (both east and west), the place which converted the East Slavs to Christiniaty etc; Greeks built more churches and other buildings but nothing ever replaced Hagia Sofia in a true sense.

It was even temporarily occupied by Latin Crusaders.

In numbers, Haga Sofia was an Eastern Orthodox church from 360 to 1204, Catholic church from 1204 to 1261, Eastern Orthodox from 1261-1453 and Ottoman mosque from that point until the 20th century. Before 360 there were other 2 smaller churches on the same spot.

[MelbHawker 6,583]

9 hours ago, Art Deco said:

It is an extremist opinion. It was a church... was...more than 600 years ago. The city was captured and it was converted. This is how things works. It is not the first religious building that was converted. There are many across the world. The last state of the building was a mosque before turning into a museum. One would argue that it remains a symbol for the fall or conquest of Constantinople to this day and it holds special meaning too.

So it should remain a museum.

We have a very different view on what extremism means, then.

To me, it is not wrong to view it as a church due to its origin/history.. it’s literally called ‘Hagia Sophia’ which is the Greek term for ‘Holy Wisdom’ and it still contains Christian Orthodox imagery on its walls.. it’s still one of the biggest, if not the biggest, symbol of Christian Orthodoxy in the world. It’s not a fanatical or unreasonable view to have given these facts, so ‘extremism’ feels just a little irrelevant here.

I agree that it should remain a museum, but Erdogan will always gets his way.