Armed rebellion against Russian leadership

[doraemon 1,143]

OK guys. Just to be clear: Right now, everything is totally blur and unpredictable. No one can wrap what exactly happened in the past those WTF hours. All we can do right now is keep praying and/or donating to Ukraine, and of course, watch ourselves.

I said it before but I'll said it again: Lukashenko, Putin's puppet and/or fxxkbuddy with benefits, brokered a deal so Prigozhin stopped the march and leaves for Belarus. But, we must be aware that:

1) either Lukashenko might kill Prigozhin instead under Putin's military general's shadow order, which of course, led to either massive killings of Wagner soldiers who wanted to avenge their crazy leader...

or

2) the deal didn't break through, Prigozhin went berserk, Wagner backed-out from the Ministry of Defense, and this whole thing started all over again, but next time it happened, he might gone red and deaf with anger...

Either way, it doesn't impact Ukraine. They're still fighting in the battlefield. But if back then Lukashenko didn't even brokered any deal and the march to Moscow went through, imagine Prigozhin collected the heads of Shoigu, Gerasimov, Tsalikov, and eventually, Putin, right in front of our television sets/smartphone screens.

I mean, did you see the videos of people in Rostov-on-Don cheering for Prigozhin instead of booing him?

[calmar 22,766]

[Removed post due to proof of it being incorrect, I apologize]

[Dennis 8,391]

19 hours ago, FfFfFfFF said:

 

Think of how some Westerners started cheering up for a far right Neo-nazi group trying to seize power in a nuclear armed country and then have the warlords try to battle for the nuclear facilities (as if this sounds like it could bring in any way security or safety for the world), moreover you ask for a civil war with different factions, supposedly supported by foreign countries (US-backed/ supported by China or Iran). Reality checks are very much needed.

To address you and anyone who's foolish enough to believe this argument. No one is cheering up for them. I think in this thread, it was made clear by many users including myself that they're just as bad as the russian military (they are a creation of the russian military anyway). It's curious though that this is the first time you complain about Wagner. I could've sworn that few months ago you claimed that Ukraine should accept ceasefire and let large parts of its population continue to be occupied by Wagner. So when they're in Ukraine, Africa, Syria, not a problem, but when the monster turns on its master all of a sudden they're neo-nazis? 

I do agree that russian nuclear facilities should be secured, that's why we want russian troops to withdraw from Ukraine and focus on protecting their own country from evil Wagner (or similar future rebellions).

[FfFfFfFF 58,059]

6 hours ago, Dennis said:

To address you and anyone who's foolish enough to believe this argument. No one is cheering up for them. I think in this thread, it was made clear by many users including myself that they're just as bad as the russian military (they are a creation of the russian military anyway). It's curious though that this is the first time you complain about Wagner. I could've sworn that few months ago you claimed that Ukraine should accept ceasefire and let large parts of its population continue to be occupied by Wagner. So when they're in Ukraine, Africa, Syria, not a problem, but when the monster turns on its master all of a sudden they're neo-nazis? 

I do agree that russian nuclear facilities should be secured, that's why we want russian troops to withdraw from Ukraine and focus on protecting their own country from evil Wagner (or similar future rebellions).

If you are well-aware and educated for what Wagner stands for, then you are not the target of my comment.

The comment you made makes no sense as Wagner has already headquarters all over Russia. The Russian Army and Wagner committed war crimes, but this doesn’t mean they kill anybody they see on the street, they kill people in open confruntations (like all other armies in the planet, including the US army in Iraq). You and people like you want the open confruntations to continue indefinitely (as Ukraine will not be getting all its land back and the misguided thought that it will - which is propagated by the Western countries - is what prevents Ukraine for accepting peace). 

Ukraine should accept a ceasefire rather than continue a war that is going nowhere and whose frontlines didn’t change for a like a year, should accept giving up Crimea who was lost 9 years ago (the babies born the year Crimea was annexed by Russia will start highschool this year) and whose population identifies as Russian instead of Ukrainian, instead of bringing destruction to a land that was peaceful for a decade. The ''counter-offensives'' will just be ''offensives'' by this point. All countries lost land, and all countries lost land unjustly and had to cope with that reality. This is not a video game or football game, but real life.

https://euroskopia.com/half-of-spain-wants-the-war-to-end-soon-even-if-ukraine-loses-territories/ I am glad that support for the war is on the decline in European countries but propaganda over the last years was so ramptand and blurred some many people's and radicalized to unspeakable extends.

[doraemon 1,143]

 

[doraemon 1,143]

11 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

If you are well-aware and educated for what Wagner stands for, then you are not the target of my comment.

The comment you made makes no sense as Wagner has already headquarters all over Russia. The Russian Army and Wagner committed war crimes, but this doesn’t mean they kill anybody they see on the street, they kill people in open confruntations (like all other armies in the planet, including the US army in Iraq). You and people like you want the open confruntations to continue indefinitely (as Ukraine will not be getting all its land back and the misguided thought that it will - which is propagated by the Western countries - is what prevents Ukraine for accepting peace). 

Ukraine should accept a ceasefire rather than continue a war that is going nowhere and whose frontlines didn’t change for a like a year, should accept giving up Crimea who was lost 9 years ago (the babies born the year Crimea was annexed by Russia will start highschool this year) and whose population identifies as Russian instead of Ukrainian, instead of bringing destruction to a land that was peaceful for a decade. The ''counter-offensives'' will just be ''offensives'' by this point. All countries lost land, and all countries lost land unjustly and had to cope with that reality. This is not a video game or football game, but real life.

https://euroskopia.com/half-of-spain-wants-the-war-to-end-soon-even-if-ukraine-loses-territories/ I am glad that support for the war is on the decline in European countries but propaganda over the last years was so ramptand and blurred some many people's and radicalized to unspeakable extends.

So you're saying that it's OK for Ukraine to let go a huge chunk of land (Crimea included) belonged to them since 1991? If there's Ukrainian GagaDaily member looking at this, they're going to haunt you, hun. It's as if you're discounting Ukraine's sovereignty as an independent nation.

[4th Time Around 5,059]

16 minutes ago, doraemon said:

 

Prigozhin is not Napoleon now is he?

[Dennis 8,391]

1 hour ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Ukraine should accept a ceasefire

And this is the thing. This is not a ceasefire that brings peace, restores borders and ends hostilities. This would be a ceasefire that would leave large chunks of Ukrainian territory and ukrainians living in it, under russian occupation, including the neo-nazis that you just mentioned (Wagner, glad you admitted they're neo-nazis). Would you want to live under the control of neo-nazis who behead, torture and rape people whenever they want to? So unless you're willing to live like that, don't lecture Ukrainians on what they should do.

[FfFfFfFF 58,059]

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

And this is the thing. This is not a ceasefire that brings peace, restores borders and ends hostilities. This would be a ceasefire that would leave large chunks of Ukrainian territory and ukrainians living in it, under russian occupation, including the neo-nazis that you just mentioned (Wagner, glad you admitted they're neo-nazis). Would you want to live under the control of neo-nazis who behead, torture and rape people whenever they want to? So unless you're willing to live like that, don't lecture Ukrainians on what they should do.

Well exactly did I deny that? Azov and Wagner were always neo-Nazi and the same sh*t fighting on two opposing barricades, I have never denied it as is an obvious fact. 

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

Would you want to live under the control of neo-nazis who behead, torture and rape people whenever they want to? 

This is propaganda, did American soldiers rape and kill Iraqis 24/7 or the war crimes happened mostly in the times of open confruntation? You put an end to the war and the life of regular citizens mostly returns to normal.

The occupation zone in Ukraine includes both Ukrainians and Russians. The idea that all of Ukraine's citizens living in those regions are Ukrainians that support Zelensky is a mere myth. A big portion of them identified with Russia and are 99% welcoming of Russia. If Ukraine gets back those lands and Crimea the ethnic Russian population will be treated as enemies of the state, as they collaborated with the Russians. 

You can educate yourself on the ethnic make up of Ukraine here, http://pop-stat.mashke.org/ukraine-census-2001-lang/total.htm (always a good idea to be informed if you have strong opinions on a topic). 

 

[doraemon 1,143]

3 hours ago, 4th Street said:

Prigozhin is not Napoleon now is he?

well, he's not

[FfFfFfFF 58,059]

3 hours ago, doraemon said:

So you're saying that it's OK for Ukraine to let go a huge chunk of land (Crimea included) belonged to them since 1991? If there's Ukrainian GagaDaily member looking at this, they're going to haunt you, hun. It's as if you're discounting Ukraine's sovereignty as an independent nation.

And before that, it belonged to Russia and before that to the Ottoman Empire. And Ukraine's western lands always belonged to different countries and those said countries gave up said lands to Ukraine and moved forward. This is how the borders of Europe came to be. On the same rational, you might oppose Taiwanese and Kosovar independence as one can claim Taiwan and Kosovo ''always'' belonged to China and Serbia.

[doraemon 1,143]

2 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

And before that, it belonged to Russia and before that to the Ottoman Empire. And Ukraine's western lands always belonged to different countries and those said countries gave up said lands to Ukraine and moved forward. This is how the borders of Europe came to be. On the same rational, you might oppose Taiwanese and Kosovo independence as one can claim Taiwan and Kosovo ''always'' belonged to China and Serbia.

You mean, Imperial Russia? I mean, you're probably referring to the days before Imperial Russia become Russian Republic, Russian SFSR, and eventually USSR. Btw, during 1917-1921, Ukraine is actually an independent nation before absorbed into USSR.

[Dennis 8,391]

The guy posts a language map and thinks that if your spoken language is russian and you live somewhere else other than Russia, it means Russia has the right to invade whatever country you live in and add that territory to Russia by force. Little does he know that Zelensky himself grew up in one of those "red" villages in the map where people spoke russian.

Why bother arguing with them at this point. Good that they've completely exposed the ridiculousness of their stance. 

[doraemon 1,143]

9 minutes ago, Dennis said:

The guy thinks that if your spoken language is russian and you live somewhere else other than Russia, it means Russia has the right to invade whatever country you live in and add that territory to Russia by force. Little does he know that Zelensky himself grew up in one of those "red" villages in the map where people spoke russian.

Why bother arguing with them at this point. Good that they've completely exposed the ridiculousness of their stance. 

Agreed. Why do we even bother... *sigh

[FfFfFfFF 58,059]

11 minutes ago, Dennis said:

The guy posts a language map and thinks that if your spoken language is russian and you live somewhere else other than Russia, it means Russia has the right to invade whatever country you live in and add that territory to Russia by force. Little does he know that Zelensky himself grew up in one of those "red" villages in the map where people spoke russian.

Why bother arguing with them at this point. Good that they've completely exposed the ridiculousness of their stance. 

I knew you would have 0 idea about how censuses in Ukraine are being made, 0 idea about the metholody. But you would not shut up about Ukraine and Rusisia as if you know these countries. 

In Ukraine most of the population is bilingual meaning speaking both Russian and Ukrainian. The map shows the mother's language, which is the language someone identifies themselves with. Zelensky was born in a blue area, with 70& of the population identifying as Ukrainian.

In other words, educate yourself before screaming from the rooftops about something you don't know about. If you barely found out where Ukraine is on the map, chances are you don't have valuable input about the matter of facts.