Zara Larsson: "People are really quick to diminish the success of a pop artist"

[King of the Fall 3,811]

6 hours ago, weed said:

https://www.metacritic.com/browse/albums/score/metascore/all/filtered

What does this prove exactly? I am seeing plenty of women and men getting great reviews from what you posted. Besides, we were talking about big mainstream pop artists in the current scene, not rappers like Kendrick Lamar.

[Maxine Puth 9,053]

I love how Gaga is a prime example of how this theory doesn’t really hold up (at-least not to an extreme) 

You can be successful as a woman in the industry dressed however you like. Want to put on a huge show with dancers and pop songs? You can do that. Want to be equally successful and critically acclaimed, just by sitting on the piano in a t shirt and natural makeup? You can do that too. 

I think it’s all in the audience you want to have. If you’re aiming for younger and let’s be honest, gay, fans. You have to put on a show. If you’re looking for older and usually straight fans, your options are less limited. 

[weed 71,439]

2 minutes ago, 4th Street said:

What does this prove exactly? I am seeing plenty of women and men getting great reviews from what you posted. Besides, we were talking about big mainstream pop artists, not rappers like Kendrick Lamar.

idk I felt like inserting myself 

[Guest]

I think there are two facets to this conversation. There is the musical aspect of it, and the performative aspect of it. It is very, very true that on the performative side of this conversation, the men involved in pop music tend to get away with doing a lot less than women. On the music side, pop music will almost always be seen as "less than" compared to other genres, because what makes for a pop song is generally pretty formulaic, and resides on the producer used and the chorus. If a song is catchy and gets stuck in your ear, it has a good chance at being a successful song, especially if it is marketed properly.

[King of the Fall 3,811]

I am picturing it now, the new narrative of all the crazy ARTPOP stans is going to be that the album only flopped because of Lady Gaga being a woman, clearly a case of blatant misogyny.

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,216]

5 hours ago, 4th Street said:

And why do you think that in pop music there is more of a pressure on women to look all glammed out? the answer to that is because people like Madonna pioneered so much of what we associate with the modern female popstar, it is simply what people have come to expect from a woman in pop music because it was a standard that was set long before today. I personally don't agree with type casting individuals in this way but that is the way it is because when people listen to mainstream pop music they are generally looking for something fun with exciting visuals. The mistake some people make is automatically associating stripped down with more talented.

I won't deny that but regardless of what started it, this is the way it is and it's not fair that all women should be held to the same standard when there's room for all different expressions of pop image. There's lots of choices if you want a bombastic female popstar so we should respect all forms of expression. It's not fair that men should get away with not trying as hard. I must also add that it's no problem whatsoever if a man cannot sing as long as he has good/catchy songs or puts on a good show. But a woman? Regardless of what she brings to the table, if she can't sing, it's seen as a huge problem and something she has to work on. This is especially evident on singing reality shows. You see how the judges know that a hot guy who sings sensitive songs on a guitar will sell even if he's got an awful voice and say how authentic he is but the pretty girl who serves looks and choreography to distract from her lack of vocal talent? Called out immediately. Valid criticism, but make it equal opportunity.

5 hours ago, 4th Street said:

What evidence do you have for this? with the exception of a few names like Harry Styles, it seems that the complete opposite has been the case in recent years. big mainstream male artists like Ed Sheeran, Justin Bieber, Machine Gun Kelly and Coldplay have all been scathingly reviewed by critics lately. Female artists like Taylor Swift, Beyonce, Lana Del Ray, Dua Lipa and Lady Gaga get glowing reviews from critics. If an artist is getting tons of negative feedback, chances are its because the music they put out is trash not that they are being more or less harshly reviewed based on gender.

Granted, things are getting a lot better. I strongly believe if Xtina's Stripped, Britney's In The Zone, Lana's Born To Die and Gaga's Joanne were released today, they'd get massively better reviews because views are changing towards women's talent and output. But I've undoubtedly seen male popstars gets consistently good MC reviews, sometimes in the 70's and 80's. Along with the ones you mentioned, look up the scores of Troye Sivan, Years & Years, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Pharrell Williams, The Weeknd, Beck, Bad Bunny, Lil Nas X, Daft Punk, Mark Ronson and BTS. And remember when Ed won Best Pop Solo at the Grammys despite being the only male in an otherwise female-led category? And he won with a song about being horny and viewing a girl as a literal object as opposed to the women who had songs about social awareness, break-ups and the recovery from an abusive producer? And he didn't even attend the ceremony? Men have always been placed above women in the industry, even in genres where they typically dominate.

[King of the Fall 3,811]

37 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

Granted, things are getting a lot better. I strongly believe if Xtina's Stripped, Britney's In The Zone, Lana's Born To Die and Gaga's Joanne were released today, they'd get massively better reviews because views are changing towards women's talent and output. But I've undoubtedly seen male popstars gets consistently good MC reviews, sometimes in the 70's and 80's. Along with the ones you mentioned, look up the scores of Troye Sivan, Years & Years, Justin Timberlake, Bruno Mars, Pharrell Williams, The Weeknd, Beck, Bad Bunny, Lil Nas X, Daft Punk, Mark Ronson and BTS. And remember when Ed won Best Pop Solo at the Grammys despite being the only male in an otherwise female-led category? And he won with a song about being horny and viewing a girl as a literal object as opposed to the women who had songs about social awareness, break-ups and the recovery from an abusive producer? And he didn't even attend the ceremony? Men have always been placed above women in the industry, even in genres where they typically dominate.

What is your point exactly? yeah there are some hot guys with shitty voices who succeed in music, just like there are plenty of female singers with shitty voices who become successful like Selena Gomez and Taylor Swift. Men sometimes get good reviews, sometimes they get bad reviews. Women sometimes get good reviews, sometimes they get bad reviews. Personally I do not think Ed deserved to win best pop solo album at the Grammy Awards but there are constantly artists winning who do not deserve to win objectively, that is true of men and it is true of women. If only men were winning awards all the time I would see your point but of course that is completely untrue because female artists are constantly winning awards and getting good reviews. Artists get good reviews, artists get bad reviews. Sometimes those artists unfairly snubbed or badly reviewed are men, sometimes those artists badly snubbed or reviewed are women.

[GAMS 1,825]

girl that new song is not good lol

 

[Economy 47,613]

Truth tho

[latina twilight 2,319]

if you can't see the clear difference between male and female artists then idk what to tell you lol

[King of the Fall 3,811]

I find it hilarious how users here keep saying there is a difference in the way female and male artists are reviewed by critics and awarded by organizations and yet everyone here seems desperate to not provide me with any examples, I wonder why? oh well, I guess I will be waiting for that answer till rigor mortis sets into my body. Also, just to be clear I am referring to present day, not things that happened in the stone ages of the music industry

[nATAH 43,448]

45 minutes ago, 4th Street said:

What is your point exactly? yeah there are some hot guys with shitty voices who succeed in music, just like there are plenty of female singers with shitty voices who become successful like Selena Gomez and Taylor Swift. Men sometimes get good reviews, sometimes they get bad reviews. Women sometimes get good reviews, sometimes they get bad reviews. Personally I do not think Ed deserved to win best pop solo album at the Grammy Awards but there are constantly artists winning who do not deserve to win objectively, that is true of men and it is true of women. If only men were winning awards all the time I would see your point but of course that is completely untrue because female artists are constantly winning awards and getting good reviews. Artists get good reviews, artists get bad reviews. Sometimes those artists unfairly snubbed or badly reviewed are men, sometimes those artists badly snubbed or reviewed are women.

you're missing the point. yes, men and women are both winning but look at the amount of effort, creativity, choreography, production and ambition a female popstar puts into selling an album vs the men

[King of the Fall 3,811]

19 minutes ago, NATAH said:

you're missing the point. yes, men and women are both winning but look at the amount of effort, creativity, choreography, production and ambition a female popstar puts into selling an album vs the men

Hmmm could it just be that choreography and production are not appreciated by everyone, some people are clueless and assume that singing with an acoustic guitar is automatically more authentic and requires more real talent. Adele has made a whole career out of just basically using her voice, where is the elaborate choreography and production required to make her songs hits? Where are the crazy costumes and choreography that was required in order for Gaga to make Shallow one of the biggest hits of her career? Creative and artistic male visionaries have often faced the same problems being critically recognized as women, why do you think David Bowie utterly despised the Grammy Awards? because for decades they ignored his work which everyone agreed was among the most innovative, groundbreaking and ambitious in music history. It was the same with Lady Gaga, her groundbreaking artistry is only being recognized now, although us fans always knew how incredible she is.

[Night Vision 3,050]

7 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Some of her views on feminism have been extremist before but when she gets it right, she gets it right. It's great to see people being unafraid to call out this double standard.  

Male pop artists tend to get better reviews from critics, though. And even when female artists have a stripped-back image, they're always under pressure to be look "presentable." Unlike Ed, they can't just show up with un-brushed hair, no make up and wearing yesterday's crumpled clothes. Adele just stands and sings but she's always dressed formally with perfect hair and make-up. I wouldn't consider Norah Jones or Joni Mitchell to be pop, that's where the difference lies. Clearly, the type of pop Zara's referring to is the bubbly, happy style that she makes, the traditional idea of what pop has been since the 80's. Billie probably is the one outlier but even if she isn't pressured to change her image (the opposite is true if anything, like when she got backlash for being too sexual, which is a problem all of its own), she's notably been under pressure from the beginning to push her vocal abilities and stop whispering instead of just accepting that this is her singing style. I notice that male artists are generally allowed to put out the same music of the same style over and over with absolutely no deviation from their set formula. Women, on the other hand, are called out as soon as they start to hear a song that sounds a bit too similar to a previous big hit (Ariana had to re-do a whole album because of the negative reception to her lead single, Focus, as it was cited to be too similar to Problem). Women are under massive pressure to reinvent themselves multiple times, particularly if they're in pop whereas men tend to stay the same without comment. And lets not even get started on women being regarded as not as authentic as men when they get started in the industry.

[Night Vision 3,050]

35 minutes ago, 4th Street said:

I find it hilarious how users here keep saying there is a difference in the way female and male artists are reviewed by critics and awarded by organizations and yet everyone here seems desperate to not provide me with any examples, I wonder why? oh well, I guess I will be waiting for that answer till rigor mortis sets into my body. Also, just to be clear I am referring to present day, not things that happened in the stone ages of the music industry

BRIT Awards 2023:

Artist of the Year

Male nominees - 5

Female nominees - 0

Grammys 2018 -

I think most people can agree that Ed was not the deserving winner here.

Did your rigor motis set in during the 35 minutes it took to get these examples?