Ladle Ghoulash 16,613 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, PartySick said: First, chill, I'm not attacking you. Second, reread your post. Lowkey fear mongering over government censorship and disagreeing that hate speech can be violent is the same thing the right does to excuse their own hate speech. I mean, what do you think the solution is? If we can't have the law on our side when someone attacks us or portrays us as perverted abominations, then what do we do? Grin and bear it? Kill 'em with kindness? Turn the other cheek? Ignore it? What is the proactive and effective solution you'd suggest? I'm honestly curious. I never said that hate speech couldn't be violent. I said that verbal abuse isn't *necessarily* violent. Reread my last post. I just said that the terms have to be clearly defined in regard to what the offense is and what the recourse is. I was only railing against the overly broad implication that verbal abuse is necessarily violence. And the "fear mongering" is literally in response to proposals that Trump has made for a second term: he specifically said he would use the force of the federal government to crack down on the dissemination of "disinformation" (aka whatever he doesn't agree with). All I'm saying is that any laws that should be passed have to be nuanced enough that they can provide recourse for people who have been harmed, but not overly broad that they can be abused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 146,722 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, deactivated001 said: I was only railing against the overly broad implication that verbal abuse is necessarily violence Why do you feel this way though? Or rather, would you describe what that woman in the video was doing as violence? 6 minutes ago, deactivated001 said: And the "fear mongering" is literally in response to proposals that Trump has made for a second term: he specifically said he would use the force of the federal government to crack down on the dissemination of "disinformation" (aka whatever he doesn't agree with). All I'm saying is that any laws that should be passed have to be nuanced enough that they can provide recourse for people who have been harmed, but not overly broad that they can be abused. Right, that's fair, I guess I oversimplified your original point. I definitely think it's doable though and would likely be something a person/victim has to pursue themselves, much like many current prejudice laws work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatelynnMarie 4,276 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Brainiac said: Omg girl I'm from Long Island too and know exactly what you're talking about. My hometown is Trump central. Where on the island are you from? I'm from Franklin Square in Nassau but live in Virginia now. OMG PERIOD! there's rarely anyone ever from here omg i won't put the town, but i'm from suffolk i've wanted to move so bad literally since i was around 14/15. it's so beautiful here, but omg the people and expenses are just too much. almost two weeks ago now actually, i almost got out of the car i was in to fight because i overheard a guy verbally abusing this girl while just hanging out by the dock. he was saying the f slur, alllllll of this really disgusting stuff. thankfully she was in her car, safe, and left. it's more involved but like, to see that stuff, it genuinely hurts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladle Ghoulash 16,613 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, PartySick said: Why do you feel this way though? Or rather, would you describe what that woman in the video was doing as violence? Right, that's fair, I guess I oversimplified your original point. I definitely think it's doable though and would likely be something a person/victim has to pursue themselves, much like many current prejudice laws work. In part, I feel like that rhetoric is a bit overly sensationalized. I think that any accusation that any speech is intended to be violent has to be based on more specific criteria (such as: what was the setting? Did the speaker pose a threat to their target? What was the effect on the recipient of the speech/insult?). That being said: I would certainly say that what that woman was saying was absolutely harassment, but I'm not sure it alone qualifies as violence. I think that speech approaches violence when it could be considered "pre-violence," which I think would be speech that seeks to incite or organized violence against a person or a group of people in a concrete/observable way. And while I recognize the potential this kind of rhetoric has to incite violence, I think that any action regarding anti-LGBTQ+ rhetoric of this nature would be better suited toward attacks against its purveyors (Turkey Carlson, Matt Walsh etc.) in the form of group libel suits from LGBTQ+ advocacy groups under the premise that this speech can lead to hate motivated violence. Imo, if you can shut the lights off at the headquarters of the propagaters of this kind of rhetoric, you can reduce its prevalence in a way that amounts to a form of democratic accountability that doesn't necessarily rely on the gov't policing speech, which I'm only skeptical of because I don't know if the federal govt should be given that discretionary power over speech (although I know it's a thorny + complicated issue). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKOUTbritney 22,264 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I’d sue her for accusing me of being a pedophile. Sue her and then take her house Sam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuffy 1,023 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 1 hour ago, NATAH said: trans people are being murdered and your energy is focused on how that user comes across? our comments are "abrasive" and "patronizing" because we're SICK and TIRED of abuse, violence and murder of innocent people Um... my Dad is trans. So I wholeheartedly understand the experiences they go through on a daily basis. The problem is that there's no point discussing with people if you're not willing to engage in a conversation. Otherwise they feel alienated and that provokes them to act out more. Forums are for discussions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuffy 1,023 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 2 hours ago, deactivated001 said: Honestly, don't feel bad. Some folks in this thread really love to patronize without hearing other people's arguments in good faith. If you're not 100% with them, you're against them; because that's how free thinking works, right? Thanks, I appreciate this. It's a forum for a reason, right? People wouldn't engage with this content if they weren't willing to discuss it as adults. And I get your point on the challenges of legalizing speech and the role of speech in violence. It's a very very messy area and I think people out of frustration (which I understand) want to blanket ban parts of it, without realizing the risk and legal messiness it poses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MANiCURE 6 10,216 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 I don't like them but they don't deserve this at all. This woman should be ashamed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nATAH 43,535 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 9 hours ago, Gogo Yubari said: Um... my Dad is trans. So I wholeheartedly understand the experiences they go through on a daily basis. The problem is that there's no point discussing with people if you're not willing to engage in a conversation. Otherwise they feel alienated and that provokes them to act out more. Forums are for discussions. what is there to talk about? the woman is crazy old bitch, that's all that needs to be focused on there's nothing to discuss about it, no other view point, no middle ground, she's a nasty ass lunatic who needs slapping down mother, what must i do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainiac 10,601 Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 15 hours ago, CatelynnMarie said: OMG PERIOD! there's rarely anyone ever from here omg i won't put the town, but i'm from suffolk i've wanted to move so bad literally since i was around 14/15. it's so beautiful here, but omg the people and expenses are just too much. almost two weeks ago now actually, i almost got out of the car i was in to fight because i overheard a guy verbally abusing this girl while just hanging out by the dock. he was saying the f slur, alllllll of this really disgusting stuff. thankfully she was in her car, safe, and left. it's more involved but like, to see that stuff, it genuinely hurts That’s exactly why I had to move away. I love Long Island for its beauty and nature but the people can really suck and it was too expensive for me to stay and be able to move out of my parents house and support myself on the salary I was making. Most of my family and many friends are still there though so it will always be home to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella Goth 1,149 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 if i was him i'll give her a free show and free lap dance and see what shes gonna react ssslslslls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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