Flyers defenseman refused to wear jersey because of pride colors

[Stef666 4,604]

25 minutes ago, Agunimon said:

It is sad that he does not want to show support, but in choosing not to do so does not make him a homophobe or hateful, and he has the platform he has because he is an athlete and they interview athletes at games. I find the response to this to be rather concerning. 

I agree that he did not necessarily show hostility or hate towards the LGBT, however, his lack of support means he is a homophobe. He doesn't have to actively bash us to be one. I can understand his opinion and why he would say that, and even respect it as one of his freedoms, but you cannot say he is not a homophobe.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dennis said:

The man isn't trying to even educate himself. Instead he prides himself on being "true to himself" even if it means discrimintory. So you shouldn't give too much benefit of the doubt to people who refuse to change their ways.

I do absolutely agree with your point here. But I do think this is way more nuanced and complicated than the immediate reaction people on the internet are having to this, and reactions like this almost always have the adverse effect to what they are intended to.

[Dennis 8,391]

Just now, Agunimon said:

I do absolutely agree with your point here. But I do think this is way more nuanced and complicated than the immediate reaction people on the internet are having to this, and reactions like this almost always have the adverse effect to what they are intended to.

In any case, I'm not going to have empathy for grown men who should know better, even if he's from Russia. I have more empathy for the victims of this type of guy, young russian LGBT people who are lynched and persecuted because of this mentality that this man dares to defend even outside the borders of his country.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Dennis said:

In any case, I'm not going to have empathy for grown men who should know better, even if he's from Russia. I have more empathy for the victims of this type of guy, young russian LGBT people who are lynched and persecuted because of this mentality that this man dares to defend even outside the borders of his country.

That's actually why I have the empathy that I do.

He's a public figure from Russia, which is where the rest of his family (except I think his immediate family) is. I think this goes beyond what he said with religion and is much deeper than that. Showing support for something his country goes against generally, as a public figure, he could be fearful of the repercussions that that could have back in Russia, where people are killed for this kind of thing. 

[Dennis 8,391]

9 minutes ago, Agunimon said:

he could be fearful of the repercussions that that could have back in Russia, where people are killed for this kind of thing. 

Except that's not what he said.  He said "My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion".

Not sure why you're going out of your way to make him say things he didn't say. He didn't say he was worried about perception, repercussion or backlash. He defended his decision from a conviction standpoint. He explicitly said that this is him being true to himself.

Anyway, believe whatever you want I guess.

[Natalia Kills 416]

My instinctual reaction when I saw this story was negative.

But it sounds like he grew up in a socially conservative home, so I'd give him a break and be tolerant. People take time to progress.

Besides if you boot him out, that'll just send him on a spiral and he'll be actively anti-LGBT for life.

I guess it comes down to the carrot vs stick approach to these issues.

[Dennis 8,391]

9 minutes ago, Pineapple said:

Besides if you boot him out, that'll just send him on a spiral and he'll be actively anti-LGBT for life.

He can be actively anti-LGBT all he wants in his private life. But I think when you have a big platform and influential role in society, you should act better or simply lose that spotlight, especially sports which are supposed to make people come together and enjoy the game. Sports organizations in particular have a responsability to their communities and should fire toxic players.

There are kids who grow up watching these players and learn from them. I don't have patience or empathy for people who misuse their influence or fame to create future generations of homophobes.
 

[Meta Mart 352]

Y'all. I'm against homophobia. I think wearing the jersey is anti-homophobia, not any assumption towards being gay. But I don't think you should have to dress in lgbt colours, as an appeal to lgbt if you really dont want to. I think it's disappointing, because he's missing the point that its about a bigger issue than himself. But I'm also against brave new world type shiz. It's his body.             Then again it's also his club professionalism. I think the colours are just a symbol of solidarity with people's not meant to be anything sordid. He looks like a bigot. I'm suprised he's not making it about his personal expression but going this religious line..... buuuuut people also don't think a lot of the time.

[Dennis 8,391]

17 minutes ago, Meta Mart said:

Y'all. I'm against homophobia. I think wearing the jersey is anti-homophobia, not any assumption towards being gay. But I don't think you should have to dress in lgbt colours, as an appeal to lgbt if you really dont want to. I think it's disappointing, because he's missing the point that its about a bigger issue than himself. But I'm also against brave new world type shiz. It's his body.             Then again it's also his club professionalism. I think the colours are just a symbol of solidarity with people's not meant to be anything sordid. He looks like a bigot. I'm suprised he's not making it about his personal expression but going this religious line..... buuuuut people also don't think a lot of the time.

Or he could just wear the jersey like everyone else in his team and not ruin the event by making it all about himself. Ironically they wanted the game to be a celebration of the LGBT people in the community but it ended up being the opposite because of him. This is part of his team dress code. And he gets paid millions for this job. If you worked at McDonalds or something and refused to wear a uniform that said "we celebrate black history month" or something, you would've been fired. So not sure why some of you are hell bent on defending his behavior.

[GagaCarpet 16]

19 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Or he could just wear the jersey like everyone else in his team and not ruin the event by making it all about himself. Ironically they wanted the game to be a celebration of the LGBT people in the community but it ended up being the opposite because of him. This is part of his team dress code. And he gets paid millions for this job. If you worked at McDonalds or something and refused to wear a uniform that said "we celebrate black history month" or something, you would've been fired. So not sure why some of you are hell bent on defending his behavior.

He can do whatever he wants in regard of what to wear specially if he doesn´t want to participate in a social movement or whatever, actually you said in a previous post he was being hateful, which I don't agree. In the video, in any moment he was hateful towards LGBT. 

[Meta Mart 352]

1 hour ago, Dennis said:

Or he could just wear the jersey like everyone else in his team and not ruin the event by making it all about himself. Ironically they wanted the game to be a celebration of the LGBT people in the community but it ended up being the opposite because of him. This is part of his team dress code. And he gets paid millions for this job. If you worked at McDonalds or something and refused to wear a uniform that said "we celebrate black history month" or something, you would've been fired. So not sure why some of you are hell bent on defending his behavior.

mmmm. It's not the same as a service industry uniform though is it. McDonald aren't going to make everyone dress in gay colours. Believe me, world pride is about to come into town, and it does mean something to do that. You can't just slap it on people like it's a professional uniform for something that they aren't actually there to do. A uniform for a queer support outreach, lgbt home, gender centre or something maybe. I agree with you it's atrocious and he's brought down the energy, but mostly onto himself. It seems nefarious to do that to people. There have been other incidents. If he starts getting a big image about how he's some kind of good person for not doing it he can go **** himself, but I don't think it's the same thing as someone having to wear it if they don't want to.

Also speaking of world pride, lgbt commodification has enough problems without people thinking it can be hijacked by brands for when the timing suits them for their image. Are there even any openly gay players on the team? If not, doesn't that hypocrisy strike you as insincere.

But I do like the idea of gay colours on the footballers. Like, they may not be acknowledged as being there personally on their team, but lgbtq people are not obfuscated weak representational objects. I worry a lot about the smaller, the less as strong, the disadvantaged, queer people being made to be exemplary because of this down-stationed image they can't be as strong as this, and that image of having queer people be displaced and withered is endangering to them all. But it's disappointing to see that people think gays are somehow not genetically as manly or something, that is bull.

[Dennis 8,391]

20 minutes ago, Meta Mart said:

mmmm. It's not the same as a service industry uniform though is it. McDonald aren't going to make everyone dress in gay colours. Believe me, world pride is about to come into town, and it does mean something to do that. You can't just slap it on people like it's a professional uniform for something that they aren't actually there to do. A uniform for a queer support outreach, lgbt home, gender centre or something maybe. I agree with you it's atrocious and he's brought down the energy, but mostly onto himself. It seems nefarious to do that to people. There have been other incidents. If he starts getting a big image about how he's some kind of good person for not doing it he can go **** himself, but I don't think it's the same thing as someone having to wear it if they don't want to.

Also speaking of world pride, lgbt commodification has enough problems without people thinking it can be hijacked by brands for when the timing suits them for their image. Are there even any openly gay players on the team? If not, doesn't that hypocrisy strike you as insincere.

But I do like the idea of gay colours on the footballers. Like, they may not be acknowledged as being there personally on their team, but lgbtq people are not obfuscated weak representational objects. I worry a lot about the smaller, the less as strong, the disadvantaged, queer people being made to be exemplary because of this down-stationed image they can't be as strong as this, and that image of having queer people be displaced and withered is endangering to them all. But it's disappointing to see that people think gays are somehow not genetically as manly or something, that is bull.

Well I do agree with you on the corporate hypocrisy part.

And this is the frustrating part. As a member of the LGBT community, I would've rather not seen this night happen at all. Something that was supposed to be a bright spot ended up being a source of energy for homophobes to rally around this man and applaud him. And then NHL releasing their PR statement full of BS.

Like either coordinate with your players for everyone to be on board beforehand, or simply don't do such events. But hosting an LGBT event and allowing your players to boycott it screams hypocrisy. The coach even sounded offensive saying that he respects Ivan for this. This is the same coach who said he'd bench any player who takes a knee during the national anthem. Peak hypocrisy.

[Meta Mart 352]

15 minutes ago, Dennis said:

Well I do agree with you on the corporate hypocrisy part.

And this is the frustrating part. As a member of the LGBT community, I would've rather not seen this night happen at all. Something that was supposed to be a bright spot ended up being a source of energy for homophobes to rally around this man and applaud him. And then NHL releasing their PR statement full of BS.

Like either coordinate with your players for everyone to be on board beforehand, or simply don't do such events. But hosting an LGBT event and allowing your players to boycott it screams hypocrisy. The coach even sounded offensive saying that he respects Ivan for this. This is the same coach who said he'd bench any player who takes a knee during the national anthem. Peak hypocrisy.

NHL? Is that hockey? I thought it was football. A similar incident happened in Australia with a prominent footballer going for a platform of seriously anti-gay sentiments and public proclamations of discriminatory beliefs, at the time of a referendum on making equal marriage laws, and he ended up being cut from the team, and then it was a big legal battle about how it was his freedom of expression. And I think he ended up being paid out for his losses.

But he really was revelling in homophobia. And his persona just got moreso like that. Maybe the guy who doesn't want to wear the shirt is being objectified by other's homophobic appropriation of him, as if they can use him as exemplary. It's not that significant really, he doesn't want to wear the shirt, and I'm not such a bigoted gay as to force that on him. As they might accuse the "sensationalism" of. But he is letting down the community.

Many people like to prop up people like dolls and objects. I don't especially think this should be some issue focused around this guy. But I don't know the nature of it. Wether it's "really" a "protest" is subjective. May not be as much as that. But it is also pretty disconnective to not want to support LGBTQ people. I dont suppose most on the team if not self-assuming as gay, are wearing them as anything other than to support the community. And as someone who went to a sports high school and was senselessly gay bashed for being there (a complicated story of their self-assertive bullshit), I really think it matters to have that presented as an inclusive atmosphere by the representatives, the team.

It's like, religion can be this out, for people to be acceptable of homophobia. If you don't want to be gay or whatever, you can just sit on religion as an excuse, or it will accomodate you. I don't agree with that premise at all. Spiritualism and culture shouldn't be this bigoted exclusionary cultured thing, no matter how much you want to have a hetero synergy in your own life.
 

[Meta Mart 352]

I have to think, wether there is some joke about "playing for the same team" embroiled in this affair

[Squidward T 2,470]

God, guys like this give a bad name to closet cases everywhere!!