TIME's Person of the Year announced

[notconfident 313]

2 hours ago, Dennis said:

Again, the action is reprehensible, and I'm not going to defend it.

But it's also important for us to not put two wrongs on the same level if the consequences are not nearly the same. A slap is not a stab. Assault is not murder. 

Especially when it comes to war, proportionality and scale become very important and can make the difference between a tolerable military action and a genocidal action.

Disabling power grid temporarily, with special substance, without destroying it is not the same as destroying the power grid with aim of permanent effect. Accuracy matters here. But anyway this is off-topic for us.

Killing innocent people is killing innocent people and there's no need to rank crimes, it's enough to accept them as immoral and awful things to do. 

As a fellow Serbian who undoubtedly stands with Ukraine in this one, I don't think war criminals should be awarded for anything - and as I agree Putin is much worse, Zelenskiy is regarded as much more of a hero than he really is and it honestly leaves a really bad taste in my mouth to see him awarded with this. I can see people mentioning "being fed with Russian propaganda", but don't really see the other side of the coin - the US does the manipulating just as well, making us Serbs seem like the least of victims in 1999, totally swallowing the fact that there were innocent people dying, both Serbs and non-Serbs, adults, as well as children. I would never put the power grid or whatever as a main thing to discuss over innocent people's lives.

Also, calling it a "tolerable military action" is disgusting. There's nothing tolerable about the things that happened and the consenquences we still feel today in Serbia.

[HotLikeMexico 6,742]

2 hours ago, Oriane said:

Is it going to be one of these 10-page long threads?

[nATAH 58,163]

oh they going off in this here thread!!

[RudraCNG 15,511]

Yeah, same publication that named Putin Person of the year. What reliability do they have?

[Meat 18,962]

10 minutes ago, RudraCNG said:

Yeah, same publication that named Putin Person of the year. What reliability do they have?

Person of the year doesn’t mean “best person”. It means someone who has had the most impact in any given year, for better or for worse. Hitler has also been named this before. 

[Dennis 8,391]

2 hours ago, notconfident said:

Killing innocent people is killing innocent people and there's no need to rank crimes, it's enough to accept them as immoral and awful things to do. 

As a fellow Serbian who undoubtedly stands with Ukraine in this one, I don't think war criminals should be awarded for anything - and as I agree Putin is much worse, Zelenskiy is regarded as much more of a hero than he really is and it honestly leaves a really bad taste in my mouth to see him awarded with this. I can see people mentioning "being fed with Russian propaganda", but don't really see the other side of the coin - the US does the manipulating just as well, making us Serbs seem like the least of victims in 1999, totally swallowing the fact that there were innocent people dying, both Serbs and non-Serbs, adults, as well as children. I would never put the power grid or whatever as a main thing to discuss over innocent people's lives.

Also, calling it a "tolerable military action" is disgusting. There's nothing tolerable about the things that happened and the consenquences we still feel today in Serbia.

This obviously a sensitive topic, and I try to educate myself more and more everyday about what happened in Serbia. But my understanding is that the serbian government was committing a genocide against the muslim minorities, including killing them and forcibly removing them from their homes, causing a forced displacement of millions of people. Do you at least agree that what was happening to these 3 million people was a genocide?

Now whether NATO could've acted differently to stop this other than through military means, that remains a topic where opinions differ.

What I wholly disagree with you on, is your opinion about Zelensky. Let's not even entertain the language that he's just "less bad than Putin". It's not even close. Zelensky did not choose this war. He was elected based on a platform of seeking peace with Russia. After years of violence that saw thousands of ukrainians die in the Donbass, guess how many people died in hostilities in the entire of 2021, the latest year under Zelensky's rule before Russia launched the invasion? 8 people. Throughout the entire year of 2021 only 8 people died as a result of the hostilities in the Donbass according to the U.N. Here's the source. Now tens of thousands of people are dying in the same region as a result of Putin's actions.

To me that is the ultimate truth, that he tried his best to achieve peace. Numbers don't lie. If he was a war mongeror like some pro-putin figures keep saying, I don't think that he'd reach a record of peace in the Donbas under his rule in 2021.

Is he irreproachable? Of course not. No leader is. Even Churchill, FDR and others were not and made some questionable decisions. But when you look at the bigger picture, I think Zelensky has been a great leader for Ukraine. He worked hard to achieve peace when peace was possible, and when Russia imposed a war on his country, he was up to the task of defending his country with a huge risk to his own safety. It's not easy to choose to stay in Kyiv when it's surrounded by russians. A lot of politicians would've fled, like the afghani president.

And I don't think it's "standing with Ukraine" to create a false equivalence between Putin and Zelensky. This is the most destructive thing you can do to the ukrainian cause. If you say you truly stand with Ukrainians, then respect their democratic choices, and their right to defend themselves, and don't try to create an equivalence between the aggressor and the victim.

[Monstermilo 5,473]

10 hours ago, fishinmyhair said:

I’m so happy it’s not Elon lol

liberal media hates elon 

him stanning conservatives is ruining his brand. 

[Squidward T 2,472]

It shouldve been Kim Petras

[notconfident 313]

15 hours ago, Dennis said:

This obviously a sensitive topic, and I try to educate myself more and more everyday about what happened in Serbia. But my understanding is that the serbian government was committing a genocide against the muslim minorities, including killing them and forcibly removing them from their homes, causing a forced displacement of millions of people. Do you at least agree that what was happening to these 3 million people was a genocide?

Now whether NATO could've acted differently to stop this other than through military means, that remains a topic where opinions differ.

What I wholly disagree with you on, is your opinion about Zelensky. Let's not even entertain the language that he's just "less bad than Putin". It's not even close. Zelensky did not choose this war. He was elected based on a platform of seeking peace with Russia. After years of violence that saw thousands of ukrainians die in the Donbass, guess how many people died in hostilities in the entire of 2021, the latest year under Zelensky's rule before Russia launched the invasion? 8 people. Throughout the entire year of 2021 only 8 people died as a result of the hostilities in the Donbass according to the U.N. Here's the source. Now tens of thousands of people are dying in the same region as a result of Putin's actions.

To me that is the ultimate truth, that he tried his best to achieve peace. Numbers don't lie. If he was a war mongeror like some pro-putin figures keep saying, I don't think that he'd reach a record of peace in the Donbas under his rule in 2021.

Is he irreproachable? Of course not. No leader is. Even Churchill, FDR and others were not and made some questionable decisions. But when you look at the bigger picture, I think Zelensky has been a great leader for Ukraine. He worked hard to achieve peace when peace was possible, and when Russia imposed a war on his country, he was up to the task of defending his country with a huge risk to his own safety. It's not easy to choose to stay in Kyiv when it's surrounded by russians. A lot of politicians would've fled, like the afghani president.

And I don't think it's "standing with Ukraine" to create a false equivalence between Putin and Zelensky. This is the most destructive thing you can do to the ukrainian cause. If you say you truly stand with Ukrainians, then respect their democratic choices, and their right to defend themselves, and don't try to create an equivalence between the aggressor and the victim.

I mostly agree with what you're saying and I hope you don't get me wrong as I usually get sensitive about the NATO aggression in 1999 considering I've gone through that and it wasn't really pretty. Serbia was not purely the victim here, and I'm totally aware of that. 

I guess we can't really fully agree on Zelensky, but that's totally fine - I stand with Ukraine for sure, but don't agree with every decision Zelensky makes. One innocent victim is already a victim too much in my eyes. 

Thank you for clarifying though, I know you mean well. 

[Pennywise 36,080]

22 hours ago, Dennis said:

That'd be Clown of the Year

Excuse me 

[RAMROD 118,106]

On 12/7/2022 at 8:25 PM, myluis617 said:

Idk if I should say this… But there are plenty of countries in the world that have been going through wars. Countries that are filled with people of color. When will they get the attention this white nation has gotten? I really didn’t want to be the one cause I know how much this can stir the pot but I had to be the one.

 

Stir the pot, gurrlll. Stir itttt!!