Dennis 8,391 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 As if the far right wasn't enough, there are now voices in the left who are urging Biden to shift strategy in Ukraine. 30 progressive congress members sent a letter to Biden urging him to negotiate a settlement with Russia. https://www.politico.com/minutes/congress/10-24-2022/unlikely-ukraine-alignment/ The most disappointing part of such letter, is the fact that this group of lawmakers made it clear they don't care about Ukraine's territorial integrity. For them, peace should be sought with Russia as long as there is a "free and independent Ukraine" as an outcome. It doesn't seem to matter what territory this "free and independent Ukraine" would be left with after the settlement. Not once is the territorial integrity of Ukraine mentioned in the letter. Legitimizing Russia's annexations with a settlement and a ceasefire is exactly what Putin hopes for right now. It's incredibly disappointing to see many congress members that I used to respect sign on to such nonsense. https://progressives.house.gov/_cache/files/5/5/5523c5cc-4028-4c46-8ee1-b56c7101c764/B7B3674EFB12D933EA4A2B97C7405DD4.10-24-22-cpc-letter-for-diplomacy-on-russia-ukraine-conflict.pdf Update: The group withdraws its letter today after it becomes known that the letter dates back to June 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyLark 10,213 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 It's only a 1/3 of the progressive caucus, and it's not as bad as it sounds when you read the actual letter. But yeah, still a terrible idea..it implies that Russia and US should be making the decision, not Ukraine, which is oddly imperialistic.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emvee 8,870 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 This will guarantee a direct conflict with Russia in the future. You’re already seeing it in Moldova. Expansion is Russia’s only way forward at this point. And this is ironic because Putin’s Russia despises everything these progressives stand for. There is a coalition of authoritarianism that is itching to regroup if Russia is allowed to peace out with its illegal annexations. OPEC being one of the biggest ways to hurt the west. Propping up right-wing groups being one of the most quiet but effective ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarstruckIllusion 53,777 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 There is nothing wrong with this letter (which I actually read) lmao. They’re quoting Biden and Zelenskyy’s own words for peace from early on. It’s clear they all failed in peace talks, and this letter is calling for a return to that - something most Americans want. and honestly… it seems like there are no good answers other than a peace deal. Either Ukraine loses (some or a lot) territory, countless people die, or nukes literally ruin parts of the country, or more (as if Chernobyl wasnt bad enough). Putin and Zelenskyy need to come to back to peace talks… I know it seems impossible rn but a nuclear strikes are… terrifying?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis 8,391 Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 26 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said: There is nothing wrong with this letter (which I actually read) lmao. They’re quoting Biden and Zelenskyy’s own words for peace from early on. It’s clear they all failed in peace talks, and this letter is calling for a return to that - something most Americans want. and honestly… it seems like there are no good answers other than a peace deal. Either Ukraine loses (some or a lot) territory, countless people die, or nukes literally ruin parts of the country, or more (as if Chernobyl wasnt bad enough). Putin and Zelenskyy need to come to back to peace talks… I know it seems impossible rn but a nuclear strikes are… terrifying?? Putin rejected the peace deal around neutrality in March (according to Reuters which cited three sources in Kremlin) and wanted to annex land. He went ahead and unilaterally annexed land. What can you realistically negotiate now? Legitimizing his annexation of land in return for a ceasefire to give him more time to consolidate his gains? If Ukrainians want to retake their land and liberate their people, there's nothing to negotiate until it is achieved. And it's not anyone else's right to decide, but them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimmo 82,467 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 They should throw a Progresso Soup at his wax figure… Hottie Detector Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler1992 2,358 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Don’t negotiate with terrorists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitoburrrito 653 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 There is literally no good solution to this problem and anybody who is going to vote against or even critique Biden because of how he is “handling” it is unrealistic. The world is going to hell and there’s nothing we can do about it. Anyways stream Midnights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannaeDrive 3,412 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 You can't negotiate an honest settlement with Putin, when he showed again and again he can just betray any treaty or deal he signed, like this has no value for him. This is highly delusional. "Fame Is A Boomerang" - Maria Callas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronk 14,934 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 minute ago, CannaeDrive said: You can't negotiate an honest settlement with Putin, when he showed again and again he can just betray any treaty or deal he signed, like this has no value for him. This is highly delusional. And negotiating with Putin legitimizes his murder of thousand of civilians. After Putin did that there can be no negotiating with him. I live outside the space time continuum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togekiss 3,183 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, Tyler1992 said: Don’t negotiate with terrorists. Yeah, Russia’s position is basically “I broke into your house and beat up your kid and took over their bed so maybe you should just negotiate a lease agreement with me” Negotiations are UNACCEPTABLE. Ukraine is entitled to their SOVEREIGN TERRITORY and anyone arguing otherwise is an apologist for Russian nationalist, genocidal, and terroristic policies. Baskin Robbins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togekiss 3,183 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Ronk said: And negotiating with Putin legitimizes his murder of thousand of civilians. After Putin did that there can be no negotiating with him. Not to mention the systemic r*pe of Ukrainian women, torture of Ukrainian citizens of all kinds, and the kidnapping of Ukrainian children to be adopted in Russia (which is literally a genocidal tactic they borrowed from the Nazis). Russia deserves no friends or allies. They need to lose and be punished for this heinous act by the international community until they reform and prove they value human life and rights. Period. Baskin Robbins Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
palma 8,918 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I wouldn’t seek something sinister behind this necessarily, but I wish politicians would shut up on things they are not well educated in. You never negotiate with men like Putin. I hate Winston Churchill for MANY things but he was right when he said “You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war,” to Chamberlain when he ‘negotiated’ with an evil dictator over some chunk of territory that is not in Western Europe for the sake of keeping the peace - we all know how that turned out. If you don’t want WW3, ensure Ukraine humiliates Putin and pushes him out of power. Is there some reason my LG7 isn't here? Has she died or something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarstruckIllusion 53,777 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Dennis said: Putin rejected the peace deal around neutrality in March (according to Reuters which cited three sources in Kremlin) and wanted to annex land. He went ahead and unilaterally annexed land. What can you realistically negotiate now? Legitimizing his annexation of land in return for a ceasefire to give him more time to consolidate his gains? If Ukrainians want to retake their land and liberate their people, there's nothing to negotiate until it is achieved. And it's not anyone else's right to decide, but them. Yes I know and agree, but why are you asking me what’s negotiable when you just said it’s up to them to decide? They’re not even talking and that’s the issue. All this letter is asking is for Biden to reconsider America’s role in sending endless weapon packages bc that’s not free and is not forcing them to hash it out over peace talks. Russia is losing the war and their country is terminally dead. Maybe they’ll be less ambitious in another round of talking. Who knows? Who can if anyone suggesting so a “russian apologist.” OoOh deep conversations… so scary 🙄 (Not talking about you Dennis) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guillaume Hamon 7,057 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 51 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said: Russia is losing the war and their country is terminally dead. Maybe they’ll be less ambitious in another round of talking. Who knows? Putin seems like the guy who will never back down to not have to admit his failure. I hope Russian economy suffers as much as we hear it does cause on long term it may make him switch but, even if russians starve, I find it hard to imagine sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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