Gaga's songwriting since ARTPOP

[SharGaga 2,906]

Hey guys. I've been on here for a while and haven't really made a lot of threads or any over the years on this forum. But I've always had this idea of doing a deep dive into Gaga's creation process and songwriting over the years and how it changed from album to album. More specifically since ARTPOP. I'm gonna talk substance use, writer's block and Gaga relinquishing her control over the creation process over the years. I'm gonna use specific things Gaga has said over the years about her songwriting process that some may have missed or forgot about. I haven't rewatched any of her older interviews so I might be paraphrasing some of the stuff she's said before. I'm haven't done this before so here we go.

The Oprah Interview (2012).
In an interview with Oprah, Gaga revealed something interesting. She revealed she drinks a lot among other things when she creates music and her mother would get worried whenever she does this. Even though she doesn't mention other substances this is one of the first times she's admitted she uses them to 'boost' her creativity. Up until then Gaga released 3 albums. BTW being her peak artistically in terms of her as a songwriter and producer in my opinion.

The ARTPOP album (2013).
Even though ARTPOP has been my most listened Gaga album in the past year or so I have to admit some of the music really had to grow on me. I didn't get it instantly like BTW which is the album that made me a fan for life. In my opinion Gaga sort of peaked as a songwriter and producer. That's how I felt at the time anyway. In my opinion her first 3 albums has better melodies, catchier hooks, better production and overall better lyrics. We also saw Gaga writing more music over a track made by her producers as opposed to starting on piano. (Aura and MJH come to mind.)
When the album was released Gaga did a whole show in November 2013 to promote the album. Before performing Dope she says something along the lines of 'I don't have to be drunk to have a good idea'. I also interpreted Swine as Gaga admitting to using substances to get out of her mind. Specifically the lyrics 'it's the thrill of ecstasy' and 'maybe I should have a little more to stay out of my mind' come to mind. Gaga has also admitted to smoking a lot of pot during this time. In the end I think the BTWB being a long and demanding tour and the subsequent hip injury also might have affected the creation of ARTPOP (negatively).

The Joanne Album (2016).
During the creation of the Joanne album Gaga starts hiring other songwriters to help. Hillary Lindsey and Father John Misty come to mind. I think she also had other songwriters help her out on select tracks on previous albums (aside from the producer) but not to the same extent she has since Joanne. The first single was a song that was already created before it came to Gaga. And Come To Mama was basically entirely written before it came to her. The demo was leaked which might have been FJM himself who wrote the song. To me Gaga hiring other songwriters (more) seemed like a natural progression. Especially after the reception of ARTPOP it became clear to me Gaga could use a little bit more help when it comes to creating music. This was also a new direction for her so it made sense. She also revealed on Howard Stern she stopped smoking pot or/and cigarettes. (We all know this didn't last).

Overall I think Joanne is still her weakest album in terms of the music. If she had more time to make the album after scrapping the songs she made with RedOne, I think she could have delivered a better album. My opinion of course.

Chromatica (2020).
After A Star Is Born Gaga admits she didn't want to make a new album. In the Apple show she did, interviewing some of the collaborators, she made some interesting revelations. She admits to relinquishing control over the music in an interview with BloodPop, especially during the end. I believe they changed Alice's production when the album was almost wrapped and by that point she had given full control to producers. It's also interesting to note she has no producer credit on this record. In the Apple show she also admits she's didn't wouldn't use a melody or lyric she wrote if someone else came up with a better one. Which makes perfect sense. Lastly in an interview with Elton John she reveals that some of the lyrics she wrote for SFA came late in the album creation process alluding to her not wanting to write music and writer's block.

LG7 (TBA)
I feel like Gaga is in the best place in her life after a really long time. It will be interesting how her songwriting will evolve and if she will take back some of the control of creating her music. I feel like aside from everything I mentioned, her fibro being active and other health issues might have contributed in  relinquishing control over the creation process over the years. With Gaga being much healthier now I'm excited to hear what she comes up with next.

What do y'all think? I hope y'all enjoyed to read through this.

[Benji 20,113]

To me, I think Gaga’s lyrics and general music is at it’s best when she has someone moderating them.  I don’t mean this negatively, we all become blind to mistakes or spin off on a not so good tangent when we’re left to create and write on our own.  It’s why we have peers review our work before it’s published, you need fresh eyes.  Having someone tell you “I don’t like that idea, try this instead” is important.

I think ARTPOP’s writing is quite weak because people were just telling Gaga “yes” rather than helping her create something better.  There’s some great lyrics on there, like Fashion!’s iconic bridge… then there’s some real duds 

[MonsterofFame 1,780]

You bring up a lot of really good points. Honestly, I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that Gaga is over making music, specifically pop music.

I watched a Fame era interview yesterday and she talked about how much she loves pop music and "hopes to be around for the next 10 years still making pop music."

That passion and energy for pop music left after ARTPOP. C2C, Joanne, and ASIB are not pop records. As you mentioned, she left most of Chromatica's production to others. 
 

I think her heart is now in acting.

[Guillaume Hamon 6,027]

3 minutes ago, MonsterofFame said:

You bring up a lot of really good points. Honestly, I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that Gaga is over making music, specifically pop music.

I watched a Fame era interview yesterday and she talked about how much she loves pop music and "hopes to be around for the next 10 years still making pop music."

That passion and energy for pop music left after ARTPOP. C2C, Joanne, and ASIB are not pop records. As you mentioned, she left most of Chromatica's production to others. 
 

I think her heart is now in acting.

In acting and imo soon in directing, writing stories, making play stagings etc.

[nATAH 43,225]

33 minutes ago, MonsterofFame said:

 I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that Gaga is over making music

i don't see how this can be realistic... why has she bothered to make 5 albums since ARTPOP (when she was at her lowest) when she could comfortably retire and live off her wealth for the rest of her life or solely focus on acting?

she may enjoy what acting has to offer right now because she's still fresh on the scene but i think it's dramatic to say she's over music when she still sells records and embarks on tours despite her disability

what i'm trying to say is: she doesn't need to keep making music but she still choses to do so. she has all the money and connections to just record a bunch of piano songs and drop a random EP but she still chooses to undergo the classic album cycle with tours and promo. i think there is still passion for it, it's just not focused on dance pop (which i'm kinda grateful for )

[MonsterofFame 1,780]

13 minutes ago, NATAH said:

i don't see how this can be realistic... why has she bothered to make 5 albums since ARTPOP (when she was at her lowest) when she could comfortably retire and live off her wealth for the rest of her life or solely focus on acting?

she may enjoy what acting has to offer right now because she's still fresh on the scene but i think it's dramatic to say she's over music when she still sells records and embarks on tours despite her disability

what i'm trying to say is: she doesn't need to keep making music but she still choses to do so. she has all the money and connections to just record a bunch of piano songs and drop a random EP but she still chooses to undergo the classic album cycle with tours and promo. i think there is still passion for it, it's just not focused on dance pop (which i'm kinda grateful for )

She literally said she didn't want to make Chromatica. Her friends pushed her to go into the studio to try to help her feel better.

It wasn't until ASIB that acting became a real career alternative for her due to its success. So the only Lady Gaga album that she actually released after shifting focus to acting is the same one she literally said she didn't want to do.

And if that wasn't direct enough, she literally did no promo after ROM, even though it was her biggest hit in years. She could've gotten another single or two from the album.

[LG666 1,775]

52 minutes ago, MonsterofFame said:

You bring up a lot of really good points. Honestly, I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that Gaga is over making music, specifically pop music.

I watched a Fame era interview yesterday and she talked about how much she loves pop music and "hopes to be around for the next 10 years still making pop music."

That passion and energy for pop music left after ARTPOP. C2C, Joanne, and ASIB are not pop records. As you mentioned, she left most of Chromatica's production to others. 
 

I think her heart is now in acting.

I agree. I think her heart is in storytelling via acting. It's clear, too, that she has matured to a point where she wants to explore more options.

Sidenote: I think Hold My Hand is a really great and powerful song. The Chromatica Ball really confirmed this for me. It's a tragedy that the song was used for a military film. It would have done greater if it was done for a different genre of cinema that does not glamorize or promote military propaganda. But HMH is really a great song, at least lyrically.

[nATAH 43,225]

3 minutes ago, MonsterofFame said:

She literally said she didn't want to make Chromatica. Her friends pushed her to go into the studio to try to help her feel better.

It wasn't until ASIB that acting became a real career alternative for her due to its success. So the only Lady Gaga album that she actually released after shifting focus to acting is the same one she literally said she didn't want to do.

And if that wasn't direct enough, she literally did no promo after ROM, even though it was her biggest hit in years. She could've gotten another single or two from the album.

she dropped promo after ROM because of a global pandemic, not just for fun

just because she didn't want to make one album doesn't mean she didn't want to make the 4 others  during that time in 2018/19, she was having a really dark period and yet she had the right friends around her to remind her of her passions.

she really could just pack it up at any point since ARTPOP so it's just not realistic to keep putting yourself through it when you have an easy option out, unless you're passionate about it

[MaybeKermit 4,042]

Y’all forget that were kinda entering the “album end” phase where she ALWAYS starts bashing/ivnoring the album lol

she did it w BTW in a way, w ARTPOP, w Joanne and now w Chromatica

We all know why tho, and it’s quite understandable why she does this

[Noir 15,159]

This is super interesting to me and something I think about a lot.

this sounds hyperbolic but I view Gaga transitioning from one era to another akin to a snake shedding it’s skin. It’s essential she lets it go and is constantly evolving - as mentioned she does kinda shade her past work i.e. “I don’t remember ARTPOP” but I think this is a mixture of her finding humour in her work, wanting to grow as an artist and being overly self-critical as a person/artist. 

I agree with @Benji’s point about moderation. That’s why I really enjoyed Mark Ronson’s work with Gaga and why her work with RedOne always worked. They saw her her greatness but also were sonically and commercially aware of music and their respective climates, not taking away her worth as the artist. I’ve never loved BloodPop and it think it’s because he oversteps the role of moderator imo. 

I’m very interested to see how much involvement she’ll have with LG7 and what route it will take. I don’t think this will happen anytime soon but I’d love an album similar to Marina’s FROOT where Gaga is the only (or at least main) co-writer/producer and it’s very intimate with 1 consistent executive producer. I’d die for that, just to see so clearly into her mind without others interjecting too much. 

[AlabasterBones 238]

Since ARTPOP? Um, kind of boring and not as engaging, fun, interesting or esoteric as ARTPOP & everything pre-ARTPOP. But maybe that’s because she just grew up? I  don’t know.
 

My favorite element of Gaga’s songwriting used to be the kind of enigmatic/ sometimes odd lyrics, and all the obscure cultural references and odes. I feel like Joanne & Chromatica had not much of those things that made me love her lyricism previously, tbh. 

This is just my own personal tastes of course. I have no idea what technically good songwriting should sound like. 
 

 

[Controversiaga 9,431]

I think her lyric-writing has become a greater collaborative and team effort post ARTPOP.

we have many a leaked songwriter demos (perfect illusion, come to mama, sour candy) that prove the songs existence prior to Gaga’s touch.

I think it’s collaboration is great.  At the same time, some of the lyrics on chromatica feel camp and generic.

Before The Fame, Gaga had a very unique niche lyric writing and perspective/outlook on life.  Her life has completely changed since so it’s inevitable she’ll get a writers block and lose inspiration or even want to take a break and settle down or explore other things in life and thus her record label will strongly encourage collaboration.

[Demoncore 475]

Seems like from her previous interviews I've watched (and what was recapped by OP), she was very much dependent on substances to help with the creative process because she was hooked on the emotion and chaos it kind of brought her. Lots of creatives in survival mode (which not to armchair, seemed to be a big aspect of her first five years in music) claim that they need stuff like alcohol and tumultuous relationships to remain creative.

Maybe she had trouble letting go of that, and coming to terms with how she was traumatized throughout her career came crashing down and she didn't know how to reconcile that. But like @NATAH said, she had amazing friends around her to help her get back into it. And with TCB in full swing, she seems kind of invigorated and in a great place with her music right now, pain-free and all! 

I think as long as she's in a good place mentally and feels confident in her songwriting process, her future musical endeavors will be that much more amazing and fulfilling for her and the fans.

[Anderson123 36,041]

3 hours ago, MonsterofFame said:

And if that wasn't direct enough, she literally did no promo after ROM, even though it was her biggest hit in years. She could've gotten another single or two from the album.

Rain On Me came out, a week later the album did. We were in the middle of a pandemic and George Floyd got murdered. I don't think the lack of promo was because of what you say. It'd have been unlike Gaga if she continued talking about Chromatica while the world outside was on fire. She had lots of plans for this era and everything got cancelled/postponed.

[AURAOFSHEISSE 6,515]

4 hours ago, Benji said:

I think ARTPOP’s writing is quite weak

I always thought ARTPOP had some of the most interesting writing of her career