American progressive group flies flag of China, Donetsk People’s Republic

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

Just now, StarstruckIllusion said:

Please stop the shallow generic “facts over feels” quotes. No one gets to decide anything about what his thoughts are. I literally gave y’all a 26 minute long video and y’all are crying bc he’s trashing Putin in it lmaoooo 

 

Exactly, he himself spoke his thoughts when he said the Crimea invasion was 100% justified. 

Territories can leave their countries if they wish, but not by brute force by external players. You are not educated enought to know Crimea's annexation happened as Russian military were patrooling the places of voting. Just plain logic says a referendum's results cannot be genuine under pressure (you would have known this if you perhaps had any knowledge on Hitler's referendum in Austria)

[Dennis 8,391]

9 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Please stop the shallow generic “facts over feels” quotes. No one gets to decide anything about what his thoughts are. I literally gave y’all a 26 minute long video and y’all are crying bc he’s trashing Putin in it lmaoooo 

Russian propaganda?? Not you literally failing to get to the part of that vid where WaPo and Gallup both confirm Crimeans wanting to leave Ukraine… (literally 4 minutes ☠️) Now let’s be serious for a second: nobody is justifying violence, but really, this is no different from Scotland wanting to leave the U.K. If they want to, they should peacefully hold a referendum for that.

So your whole argument for giving a big chunk of land with millions of people in it to an authoritarian regime that silences dissent and tortures people who oppose the move, is a single sentence in a WAPO article? Is this how matters of land partition are decided these days?

There is an international law. And nothing in international law justifies russia sending armies to seize foreign land by force. PERIOD. It stops there.

So you can stop trying to justify this. This is not crimea holding referendum on its own with impartiality and transparency. This was a russian army invasion, taking everything by force and silencing dissenters. The fact that you tried to compare to scottish independence which would be negotiated through peaceful democratic process has me 

What guarantees that such public support is not manufactured? What guarantees that crimeans were simply afraid and pretended to support the move to not face retribution? A single sentence in a WAPO article guarantees all of that (it wasn't even a finding, it was an  uncorraborated observation)? Is this the type of overly-simplistic thinking the Hasanabi community has come down to?

Gosh...

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

Also why is a Twitch streamer such a focus of discussion?  Pro-Putinism is not only endemic to him.

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

5 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Exactly, he himself spoke his thoughts when he said the Crimea invasion was 100% justified. 

Territories can leave their countries if they wish, but not by brute force by external players. You are not educated enought to know Crimea's annexation happened as Russian military were patrooling the places of voting. Just plain logic says a referendum's results cannot be genuine under pressure (you would have known this if you perhaps had any knowledge on Hitler's referendum in Austria)

You’re moving the goalpost. If you wanna argue they’ve all been brainwashed or pressured into it, then sure, but that is separate. 

Also pretty sure he doesn’t support brute force by states to hurt people or take over countries or provinces so the 100% isn’t 100%ing…

9 minutes ago, Dennis said:

So your whole argument for giving a big chunk of land with millions of people in it to an authoritarian regime that silences dissent and tortures people who oppose the move, is a single sentence in a WAPO article? Is this how matters of land partition are decided these days?

There is an international law. And nothing in international law justifies russia sending armies to seize foreign land by force. PERIOD. It stops there.

So you can stop trying to justify this. This is not crimea holding referendum on its own with impartiality and transparency. This was a russian army invasion, taking everything by force and silencing dissenters.

What guarantees that such public support is not manufactured? What guarantees that crimeans were simply afraid and pretended to support the move to not face retribution? A single sentence in a WAPO article guarantees all of that (it wasn't even a finding, it was an  uncorraborated observation)? Is this the type of overly-simplistic thinking the Hasanabi community has come down to?

Gosh...

They want to be Russian. No one wants to be brutally invaded. Spare nuance, please? 

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

8 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

Also why is a Twitch streamer such a focus of discussion?  Pro-Putinism is not only endemic to him.

Because no one actually has the time of day to actually discuss every famous lefties opinion on stuff — except for yoü apparently 

[Dennis 8,391]

Just now, StarstruckIllusion said:

They want to be Russian. No one wants to be brutally invaded. Spare nuance, please? 

Again what is your basis for this? Do you have a minimul level of political knowledge of how these matters are decided? You don't decide such matters with gut feeling or with a single sentence in a WAPO article.

How do you know that crimeans overwhelmingly want to be russian? Was there an open, fair democratic process?

Were both sides allowed to campaign for and against joining Russia and debate the arguments without fear of torture and retribution? Heck the option to "rejoin Ukraine" wasn't even in the referendum options

Wake up honestly. You can't create a moral equivalence between a democratic process of independence like Scotland for example, with a military invasion and forcing everyone into Russia through use of threats and a sham referendum.

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

Final note: the sovereignty of imaginary lines on giant patches of dirt and grass does not and should not supersede the will of human hearts. Okay I’m off with my day

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

Just now, StarstruckIllusion said:

You’re moving the goalpost. If you wanna argue they’ve all been brainwashed or pressured into it, then sure, but that is separate. 

I am not moving anything. I am telling you the facts that no referendum under foreign pressure is genuine, is this not plain logic?

We cannot know if the majority wants that unless a genuine referendum will take place. Majority of Crimeans probably wanted that, but we have no genuine way of knowing once Russia had boots on the ground. 

2 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

 

Also pretty sure he doesn’t support brute force by states to hurt people or take over countries or provinces so the 100% isn’t 100%ing…

He supports brute force by saying Russia's invasion was 100% justified as per video. There is no invasion that is not using brute force, otherwise it would not have been an invasion, so you ''being pretty sure'' contradicts his own words.

Look at this map of Ukraine's independence referendum - the majority of Crimeans voted pro-independence (I am showing you this because I know for a fact you are not familiar with it).

[4th Time Around 5,059]

The fact anyone seems to actually use mainstream news as a credible source for the conflict in Ukraine is so sad its almost funny. Nobody knows a danmm thing about whats really going on so people should stop pretending like they do. Anyone who actually knows anything would know that Ukraine is a puppet caught in between two superpowers playing world chess.

[Dennis 8,391]

3 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Final note: the sovereignty of imaginary lines on giant patches of dirt and grass does not and should not supersede the will of human hearts. Okay I’m off with my day

The will of human hearts or the illusion created by Putin through the use of a sham referendum and the threat of both military and police force looming over people's lives?

There's nothing that proved me more right than this exchange. You came out angry at people suggesting that there is a part of the left that pushes Kremlin propaganda and yet here you are doing just that.

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

3 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Because no one actually has the time of day to actually discuss every famous lefties opinion on stuff — except for yoü apparently 

So now it's no longer me spreading far right propaganda, but something that is real but you ''don't have time to adress''.

Why is pro-Putinism so prevalent in far right and far left circles? Sit back and think a bit.

[FfFfFfFF 58,120]

4 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Final note: the sovereignty of imaginary lines on giant patches of dirt and grass does not and should not supersede the will of human hearts. Okay I’m off with my day

I can't. What about Ukrainians' hearts destroyed by Russia's destruction? You are removed from reality if for you Ukraine is lines on a map.

[Dennis 8,391]

2 minutes ago, FfFfFfFF said:

So now it's no longer me spreading far right propaganda, but something that is real but you ''don't have time to adress''.

Why is pro-Putinism so prevalent in far right and far left circles? Sit back and think a bit.

There is a good article that discussed this weird phenomenon 
https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/07/04/us-politics-ukraine-russia-far-right-left-progressive-horseshoe-theory/

[gypsy101 5,453]

2 hours ago, bionic said:

Never gets old

since when does the far left shill for russia

[Dennis 8,391]

9 minutes ago, gypsy101 said:

since when does the far left shill for russia

You don't have to read beyond what's already posted in this thread to discover that.

Honestly, if you're truly anti-extremism, you must condemn it regardless of which side it is on. I'm a left-leaning person myself but I'm not going to masquerade and pretend that russian shilling is only a far right issue, to make my side look better. The reality it's a fringe issue. And I'm talking both fringes.