Diane Warren curious how can there be 24 writers on a song

[StrawberryBlond 14,268]

I totally get her point. The sampling game is so overdone and means there's very little originality left in songs. I feel a little disappointed when I hear a great song and then find out that it samples an old song I'd never heard of and that's where the great beat is coming from. It just makes me feel like, do I even really like the new song? And by the way, if you're going to sample, can't you just do one sample per song? What's with these multiple different samples per track? Don't you want to create something even halfway original?

And it's not just sampled songs that have a problem with an excessive amount of co-writers. I've seen sample-less songs with 12+ writers, usually from singers who are infamous for having a lot of their work written for them, which isn't surprising. The more involved an artist is, the less writers there tends to be, even on collabs. As long as everyone does their bit, even collabs should be low on writers. Gaga goes to town when it comes to crediting everyone but she's very rare in that regard. Anyone who's ever worked with her will tell you that the majority of this is all her, she's just very adamant about giving credit to absolutely everyone, even if they only wrote one line or changed a word. Most artists wouldn't be this generous.

[StarstruckIllusion 50,412]

1 hour ago, Admin said:

I don’t know why she’s doing this. She’s one of the greatest pop songwriters in history and she doesn’t need to prove anything. And having been in the business for decades, she knows EXACTLY how there can be so many writers on a song lol

Not the insecurity… the Madonna is jumping out!

 

[Suuus 5,632]

3 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Not the insecurity… the Madonna is jumping out!

 

This is the first time ive ever seen a full clip of this gif

[Admin 24,441]

13 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

The more involved an artist is, the less writers there tends to be

This is not true and also very ironic because Diane Warren writes songs FOR other people, meaning that the artist she writes for usually has 0 involvement in the process.

Someone who writes a song that happens to have a sample is way more involved than someone who just purchases a song from Diane Warren.

[Butters Stotch 5,363]

20 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I totally get her point. The sampling game is so overdone and means there's very little originality left in songs. I feel a little disappointed when I hear a great song and then find out that it samples an old song I'd never heard of and that's where the great beat is coming from. It just makes me feel like, do I even really like the new song? And by the way, if you're going to sample, can't you just do one sample per song? What's with these multiple different samples per track? Don't you want to create something even halfway original?

And it's not just sampled songs that have a problem with an excessive amount of co-writers. I've seen sample-less songs with 12+ writers, usually from singers who are infamous for having a lot of their work written for them, which isn't surprising. The more involved an artist is, the less writers there tends to be, even on collabs. As long as everyone does their bit, even collabs should be low on writers. Gaga goes to town when it comes to crediting everyone but she's very rare in that regard. Anyone who's ever worked with her will tell you that the majority of this is all her, she's just very adamant about giving credit to absolutely everyone, even if they only wrote one line or changed a word. Most artists wouldn't be this generous.

This happened to me when my gay a*s found out that Madonna's Hung Up sampled Abba's Gimme Gimme Gimme! and that the contagious sound was actually from Abba's song. It kinda ruined Hung Up for me.

[Mister G 10,162]

Her comments resulted in lots of folks on Twitter dragging her LOL.

[DoremonLove 8,144]

5 minutes ago, Butters Stotch said:

This happened to me when my gay a*s found out that Madonna's Hung Up sampled Abba's Gimme Gimme Gimme! and that the contagious sound was actually from Abba's song. It kinda ruined Hung Up for me.

Off topic but gimme gimme gimme is sooooo much better thn hung up no hate yo madonna tho.

[StrawberryBlond 14,268]

17 minutes ago, Admin said:

This is not true and also very ironic because Diane Warren writes songs FOR other people, meaning that the artist she writes for usually has 0 involvement in the process.

Someone who writes a song that happens to have a sample is way more involved than someone who just purchases a song from Diane Warren.

That's not what I meant. I was referring to when the artist, as in ones that write their own work, write a song that they are highly involved in, there tends to be less writers. Of course if you get a song written for you in the old school way that Diane does where it's basically just one or two people writing it, this doesn't apply. But most songs that get written for singers now don't use this old school method. If the singer doesn't write and they want a guaranteed hit, that means that multiple writers are usually called in to write something super generic down to a set formula. Some of the most generic, basic songs with very little lyrics (but no samples) have a surprisingly long list of writers. It blows my mind how such songs need that many, but then, they say writing pop music is a science and formula that needs lots of input most of the time.

4 minutes ago, Butters Stotch said:

This happened to me when my gay a*s found out that Madonna's Hung Up sampled Abba's Gimme Gimme Gimme! and that the contagious sound was actually from Abba's song. It kinda ruined Hung Up for me.

You and many others. I knew right away I'd heard that tune before but the younger ones probably didn't. I still love Hung Up despite this, though. It's a great example of how to do a sample correctly even if it is the kinda sample that hits you between the eyes with how obvious it is. But it made no attempt to hide it.

[Sherry 4,715]

2 hours ago, Frank Potion said:

Samples and multiple writers. It’s not that hard but Diane’s old ass wanted to get cute I guess.

How do you get nominated 15 times for a Grammy and only win once? Let’s talk about THAT, Diane. 

Atleast she has one 

[Celloo Deng 53,872]

I wish she wouldn't have this attitude, I used to like her but she's so shady. And when Billie won an Oscar she looked fuming, why not lift up younger artists instead of being bitter?

[Edonis 28,829]

Diane is being so disingenuous by posting those tweets and saying “no shade”. As a writer, you should know what sampling is and legal requirements of sampling music. Dance music is especially rooted in this process (it’s origins are literally underground DJs deconstructing/remixing/destroying famous songs to create something new) and Diane has made dance-pop before so she should know better.  

[SKANK 14,288]

If you are the most prolific song writer of your generation, it would be frustrating seeing other artists continue to win the awards you are nominated for, if those other artists require dozens of song writers per-song. That is probably where some of her frustration comes from.

Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with a collage of writers or samples, if they are creating a new and interesting sound. But I'm not going to be the person who lectures Diane Warren about song writing. 

 

 

[Guillaume Hamon 6,041]

3 hours ago, djfreemymind said:

Didn't Gaga change a few words in TIHTY and Gaga got credit as a songwriter? Was even up for the Oscar, etc.

Isn't that how that works, Diane?? No matter how small the collaboration?

Not just a few words changed. Warren said Gaga "arranged the **** out of the song".

She had a tenth of the songwriting credits I believe so yep it was warren's baby overall but that doesn't mean Gaga didn't really work on it.

2 hours ago, djfreemymind said:

Like when Gaga made sure she was credited as a producer on JLo and RedOne's "Invading my Mind"

It was due to Redone using the same sample for both Judas and invading my mind with the last one being released before Judas.

It's all on redone and she just didn't want to be accused of copying Jlo right after the Born this way scandal.

2 hours ago, djfreemymind said:

I guess I'm just tired of mostly Black artists getting hit with the: "Can you imagine if John and Paul had 20 other writers?"

To be fair it's mainly Bey who's getting backlash for it and she does has a high number of writers per song compared to most of her peers.

Nothing wrong with it imo tho.

[PartySick 147,822]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But most songs that get written for singers now don't use this old school method

And this is such a shame tbh. Most music these days feels like two and a half minutes of manufactured noise.

...not to go all "old man yelling at a cloud" or anything 

But when I think of my two favorite artists, MJ and Gaga, their BEST songs are the ones that are written solely by them and one or two other people just getting together, sitting down, and creating.

Billie Jean was entirely MJ's baby. The Dangerous, HIStory, and Invincible albums were nearly 100% him, Teddy Riley, and a very small handful of other people. And the stuff he was making with Brad in the 2000s? UGH

And I have to give it to Gaga and Mark Ronson for creating Joanne with, again, a small handful of people. That album continues to slay me  plus her writing on ARTPOP (even if the production isn't original for most of the songs), BTW, and even TF and TFM. Chromatica is the first time I truly felt a dip in quality and, unless I'm mistaken, it's the first time she worked with so many people and had so many hands in the cookie jar.

So there's definitely something to be said about keeping the craft authentic and personal. It might not chart well but damn...the quality that goes into music when the artist whose name is on it actually puts their whole soul into it

I'd love to see the outcome of giving Beyonce a note pad and having her sit down with one producer. I'm sure it'd be amazing

[Doroteyo 410]

4 hours ago, Admin said:

A song can have a lot of writers if 1) it’s a collaboration 2) it samples something 3) it has multiple producers & probably other factors.

“Rain On Me” has 12 writers, “Sine From Above” has 15 writers. Actually Chromatica overall is a great example of this because Gaga explicitly spoke about how every song went through multiple producers and writers who all added something to it. I always thought it was a very interesting approach, especially for pop music. 

great examples of why having too many cooks in the kitchen is not a good thing. feel like gaga has learned her lesson, expecting way fewer credits on lg7