Biden uses term “Latinx”

[Lady Adga 8,664]

1 hour ago, Illuminati said:

A lot of people are transphobic and don't want inclusive non gendered terms or think that it is somehow an attack on them personally.

That is a LIE. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything. The word Latinos already includes all sexual orientations, genders, etc. The word Latinx is just plain stupid.

[ProfessionalClown 10,647]

41 minutes ago, Gagaloo911 said:

I understand, and don't think you're a bad person or ill-intentioned for not using such terms.

I only wish for you and others to be aware of why it is used, and acknowledge the atrocities and damage Spanish as a colonizer language has done to indigenous peoples across the Americas, in many cases whose cultures had multiple genders  or gender neutral or "free-spirited" people and terms. 

At the end of the day, it's each person's choice to use which terms are comfortable for them.

I just don't think people, Spanish speaking people in particular who don't understand or are aware of their own language's history, should be disparaging this usage or term or those who wish to use it.

As someone who is both Native American and Mexican, this kinda doesn’t make any sense. 
 

most of Mexico is actually derived from the colonization of natives and most people from and in Mexico probably have some kind of native blood in one way or another.

 

the issue is then”two spirited” idea was a separate idea. It’s not “oh we’re indigxnous” or “Native Americxn” to say it. It was a completely different form of who you were as a person with two spirits in you  and they would freely be there.

the Spanish language has been reclaimed by Mexicans and many other people from Latin Americans countries. Its not really fair to hold anyone who speaks Spanish to the degree of people 200+ years ago who actually killed people. It’s kinda ridiculous.

also think about this, Spanish is a Romance language. Everything is gendered, same with Italian and French. It comes from Latin, so obviously making one single word gender neutral makes no sense bc it kinda throws the entire thing off. 

[Bonkers 30,860]

5 minutes ago, VenusHooker said:

That is a LIE. If you don't know what you're talking about, don't say anything. The word Latinos already includes all sexual orientations, genders, etc. The word Latinx is just plain stupid.

I'm still confused about one thing... where does "hispanic" fit into this?  Are there Latino people who are not also Hispanic?  I feel I like should know.  But I don't  

[ProfessionalClown 10,647]

1 hour ago, Illuminati said:

A lot of people are transphobic and don't want inclusive non gendered terms or think that it is somehow an attack on them personally.

This is the most ridiculous thing I’ve read on this site so far. Are you seriously so disconnected from reality?

Latin is already gender neutral, same as Latine. We just don’t want the whitewashed Latin Americans to make the language harder to use because once you change Latino/Latina to latinx, you can’t even talk to a person bc you’re not sure how to change the words to correlate to the person.

Changing one word literally screws up the entire convo you have with a person.

 

maybe do 5 minutes of research about Spanish before saying something like this.

[ProfessionalClown 10,647]

1 minute ago, Bonkers said:

I'm still confused about one thing... where does "hispanic" fit into this?  Are there Latino people who are not also Hispanic?  I feel I like should know.  But I don't  

Yes. You’re not Latin if you’re from Spain basically. Unless you’re mixed then you’re both Hispanic and latino.

 

basically you’re Hispanic if your ancestry or you were born in a place with ties to Spain which can even count some people in France, Italy, and the Philippines. Latin is Latin America so not Spain. 

[Jose P 23,341]

1 hour ago, Grigio Guy said:

 

Speaks for yourselves. I know plenty of Hispanic/latinx people that use this term (my husband and I included). No one’s holding anyone at gun point forcing them to use the word. It’s simply an inclusive term to refer to a group of people. Not everyone in our community identifies as male or female and that’s their right.

There’s already ways for non-binary people to address themselves as, ways that make sense with the pronunciation of the language and made by people who speak the language, not made by people who don’t speak it nor even live where they speak it.

[ProfessionalClown 10,647]

57 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

If indigenous people want to be called that I’m all for it. 

I am Latino. I speak Spanish and don’t have an issue with it. 

But I simply will not use the term on everyone. 

I don’t think you guys see how we are not being ill intentioned by simply speaking a language as it is. 

The thing they don’t understand is regionally, indigenous Mexicans are the ones that happened to mainly. You’re not “latinx” as a Native American more than likely. I’m both native and Mexican but they’re separate things. Yes natives were colonized but to be completely honest, Mexico rn is a byproduct of that as many many people there now came from the colonization of the tribes like the Aztecs and such.

 

Mexico still holds a LOT of indigenous roots and customs and created their own identity that went against the Catholic Church and European standards. Know it all up there what’s to forget that Mexico created its own identity years and years ago lmao. They’re not still under some veil of Spain. They’re their own people with their own traditions now and most of them still come from the era when the tribes lived there. 

[Vicixs 3,559]

4 minutes ago, Jose P said:

There’s already ways for non-binary people to address themselves as, ways that make sense with the pronunciation of the language and made by people who speak the language, not made by people who don’t speak it nor even live where they speak it.

Oh? Could you give me some examples? I’m genuinely interested.

from what I know and what’s been posted in this thread, this has been assessed by linguists. I personally find it better to use than something like “latin@“ because it still feels gendered.

 

do you have alternatives to a gender neutrals term or…?

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

4 minutes ago, ProfessionalClown said:

As someone who is both Native American and Mexican, this kinda doesn’t make any sense. 
 

most of Mexico is actually derived from the colonization of natives and most people from and in Mexico probably have some kind of native blood in one way or another.

 

the issue is then”two spirited” idea was a separate idea. It’s not “oh we’re indigxnous” or “Native Americxn” to say it. It was a completely different form of who you were as a person with two spirits in you  and they would freely be there.

the Spanish language has been reclaimed by Mexicans and many other people from Latin Americans countries. Its not really fair to hold anyone who speaks Spanish to the degree of people 200+ years ago who actually killed people. It’s kinda ridiculous.

also think about this, Spanish is a Romance language. Everything is gendered, same with Italian and French. It comes from Latin, so obviously making one single word gender neutral makes no sense bc it kinda throws the entire thing off. 

I'm not sure I completely understand some of your first points you're making with the two-spirit thing (which is what I meant, not free-spirited as I originally put by mistake).

The point I was making with stating that is many indigenous cultures had three genders or recognized there was more than two genders and had terms for those. In this way, many Spanish-speaking people have reclaimed that by using terms like "Latinx" or "Latin@s" because they don't agree with your assessment that Latinos encompasses all genders and is inclusive of everyone. They see it as still gendered and defaulting to the masculine, which is the entire point for not using it for these people.

Also, the whole idea stemmed from Spanish-speaking people NOT white people, and in my experience it is indigenous Spanish-speaking people who use such terms.  In fact, I was first introduced to the term "Latinx"  by people who were Spanish-speaking and indigenous.

And their thought process and entire point was to de-gender Spanish because for many indigenous people they don't like or agree with the need to gender everything as Romance languages do.

It's not inherently a bad thing to do, languages literally change all the time and evolve with the times and how the people choose to speak their language. Like literally go read up on and research linguistics, how we speak English or how Spanish spoken today is entirely different from the way they were spoken 200 or even 100 years ago, it's literally how language works 

The idea that we can't change a language because it's "just how it is" is just nonsense and not even true whatsoever based on actual fact, reality, and history considering all languages constantly are changing. 

 

[Lady Adga 8,664]

15 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

I'm still confused about one thing... where does "hispanic" fit into this?  Are there Latino people who are not also Hispanic?  I feel I like should know.  But I don't  

Latinos: Those born/originating from Latin America.
Hispanics: Those born/originating from a place where the first language is Spanish.

[ProfessionalClown 10,647]

2 hours ago, Grigio Guy said:

 

Speaks for yourselves. I know plenty of Hispanic/latinx people that use this term (my husband and I included). No one’s holding anyone at gun point forcing them to use the word. It’s simply an inclusive term to refer to a group of people. Not everyone in our community identifies as male or female and that’s their right.

”Latin” isn’t gendered dude. Jorge is Latin, sally is Latin. Greg is gender fluid and Latin, Jenny is intersex and also Latin. It’s not a hard concept to use a word you already know for what it’s meant for 

Also the “well I know many” invalidates the millions who hate it lmao. Most people in Mexico and other countries hate it, a lot of people here hate it, it’s mainly whitewashed Latin Americans who use it and white performative activists who could care less about our struggles as POC’s but wanna change our language 

 

also using Latinx makes it hard af to talk because most of the language is gendered so you gotta do mental gymnastics to not use words that are gendered, which is like 70% of the language 

[Jose P 23,341]

7 minutes ago, Grigio Guy said:

Oh? Could you give me some examples? I’m genuinely interested.

from what I know and what’s been posted in this thread, this has been assessed by linguists. I personally find it better to use than something like “latin@“ because it still feels gendered.

 

do you have alternatives to a gender neutrals term or…?

The one that’s most commonly used is adding the suffix -e. So pronouns will be elle, elles. If you want to neutralize a word, you say for example novio/novia/novie. That’s the one that’s used the most and you can actually pronounce it with no problem. For example I’ve been watching Drag Race Spain and one of the non-binary queens uses those pronouns. Ofc there’s also using the @ which has been around for a long time, but that’s for written form.

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

Btw, I myself don't even use the term Latinx and basically always uses Latinos.

But I can understand and respect the perspective for using gender neutral terms.

And most of you in here need to read up on linguistics and the basic reality and facts about language which is that it is constantly changing, evolving, and shifting with the times and the ways in which people speak and use it.

Languages aren't static and NEVER stay the same, they ALWAYS change. So the argument that's "its tradition" or "the way it is" is entirely baseless and not even factually or historically true.

[Lady Adga 8,664]

2 minutes ago, Gagaloo911 said:

I'm not sure I completely understand some of your first points you're making with the two-spirit thing (which is what I meant, not free-spirited as I originally put by mistake).

The point I was making with stating that is many indigenous cultures had three genders or recognized there was more than two genders and had terms for those. In this way, many Spanish-speaking people have reclaimed that by using terms like "Latinx" or "Latin@s" because they don't agree with your assessment that Latinos encompasses all genders and is inclusive of everyone. They see it as still gendered and defaulting to the masculine, which is the entire point for not using it for these people.

Also, the whole idea stemmed from Spanish-speaking people NOT white people, and in my experience it is indigenous Spanish-speaking people who use such terms.  In fact, I was first introduced to the term "Latinx"  by people who were Spanish-speaking and indigenous.

And their thought process and entire point was to de-gender Spanish because for many indigenous people they don't like or agree with the need to gender everything as Romance languages do.

It's not inherently a bad thing to do, languages literally change all the time and evolve with the times and how the people choose to speak their language. Like literally go read up on and research linguistics, how we speak English or how Spanish spoken today is entirely different from the way they were spoken 200 or even 100 years ago, it's literally how language works 

The idea that we can't change a language because it's "just how it is" is just nonsense and not even true whatsoever based on actual fact, reality, and history considering all languages constantly are changing. 

 

The point here is that there is no problem with the word LATINOS. And it doesn't have to be changed. I repeat and in case you didn't understand: It's latinos, not latinx, most of us latinos don't like that term with the x at the end, it's offensive. The word LATINOS already includes all sexual orientations, genders, etc. You should learn a little about Spanish grammar. And from what I read, you're not even Latino, so you shouldn't be telling us how to use our language. That's a very American attitude on your part, wanting to impose on others how to speak and how to behave. Respect other people's cultures, traditions and languages. 

[Illuminati 15,965]

11 minutes ago, ProfessionalClown said:

maybe do 5 minutes of research about Spanish before saying something like this.

I saw that you read my every comment and had mostly constructive response the other 3 times you quoted me so I'm not sure why you suddenly chose to disregard all of that and claim that I was somehow trying to dictate how people should speak in Spanish. I repeatedly said that it seems to be an English term for English language.

I stopped the discussion when another member said that this has been adopted by their Spanish speaking friends as well, as I had nothing to say about how people should speak in Spanish.

I do still think that people mostly use this as an excuse to push anti inclusive agenda even if it's not you specifically. I also personally like the alternatives that have been suggested in this thread, Latin and Latine.