I don't like the Kpop industry. They are abused.

[Cookie Tookie 10,546]

11 minutes ago, blindinghope said:

And the American music industry isn't just as bad? Literally. Stop pointing fingers and making one thing the bad thing and shouldn't be listened to. How many rapes do we hear about over here? Shut up. 

For you to deflect to rape instead of addressing the actual atrocities occurring in the Kpop industry... Instead of resorting to whataboutism in defense, you should realize it’s perfectly fine to criticize music industries around the world equally. Kpop is not exempt from criticism. 

[blindinghope 216]

Just now, Babel said:

I don’t get why Kpop fans come to defend the erratic behavior of the kpop industry and start deflecting the issue by talking about how the western world treats artists. We know what artist go thru on American music, the woman this forum is dedicated to has always been outspoken about the corporate world and its inhumanity. Countless of discussions have been taking part, it’s everywhere. 
 

So why can’t we speak about the insights of Kpop corporations too? Why is such taboo for Kpop fans? 

Because we know. We show distaste for the companies and show love for the groups. 

[LOVEDRUG 10,665]

21 minutes ago, Aphasic Top said:

1. I get that South Korea has given a lot of great groups with incredible songs and even more incredible and complex choreographies but the abuse they go through doesn't do it for me.

2. Kpop artists are manufactured, they are not at liberty to express themselves truely. All this extravaganza with boy bands wearing make up, skirts, ect,  is just for show. South Korea is known to be highly homophobic. 

3. The way these guys and gals are treated is not fair nor human.

The following article shines light on this topic. 

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2020/mar/29/behind-k-pops-perfect-smiles-and-dance-routines-are-tales-of-sexism-and-abuse

1. gross generalisation.

2. many artists do express themselves truly. whilst yes, there is extensive suppression of feelings, this is a societal issue not an industry issue. there are many artists who express feelings of identity, sexuality and such through their music, they just do so in a more subtle and nuanced way than you may be expecting. the artists aren't manufacted. are they heavily controlled? often, yes. but they aren't manufactured, that's unfair to the quality of their art.

3. the awful abuse and manipulation is a smaller portion of the industry than you'd think, but there certainly are industry-wide issues that need solving.

[Aphasic 4,033]

1 minute ago, Babel said:

I don’t get why Kpop fans come to defend the erratic behavior of the kpop industry and start deflecting the issue by talking about how the western world treats artists. We know what artist go thru on American music, the woman this forum is dedicated to has always been outspoken about the corporate world and its inhumanity. Countless of discussions have been taking part, it’s everywhere. 
 

So why can’t we speak about the insights of Kpop corporations too? Why is such taboo for Kpop fans? 

Thank you. I am not condoning any kind of mistreatment of artists ANYWHERE around the globe but suicides and inhumane treatment to people who want to be part of the Kpop industry is very well documented.

[Noah 26,941]

6 minutes ago, Bonkers said:

I think when a culture glorifies hard work, it means there are high expectations and working in that industry is going to be demanding.  

That is true, but you know thats also a thing because of the war and that it was hard for them to establish a good ‚Industry‘ (in general). So people had to work extra hard for their money and carried on their beliefs etc. 

But the KPOP Contracts you usually can leave if you‘re mentally or physically exhausted AND they‘re limited to 7 years. After 7 years like 90% of the Groups disband. 

[LOVEDRUG 10,665]

there are awful issues in kpop, i admit that, but i'm sick to death of having to defend the artistic value of my favourite artists. they're controlled not manufactured. they write their own songs, they often produce their own songs, and more often than not have a huge part to play in their own creative direction. i rarely even see the manufactured narrative with western artists anymore, even the ones who play no part in the creation of their work, because self-producing artists like taylor and gaga have become the norm. the word 'manufactured' for kpop is plain incorrect.

[Aphasic 4,033]

2 minutes ago, Autumn said:

1. gross generalisation.

2. many artists do express themselves truly. whilst yes, there is extensive suppression of feelings, this is a societal issue not an industry issue. there are many artists who express feelings of identity, sexuality and such through their music, they just do so in a more subtle and nuanced way than you may be expecting. the artists aren't manufacted. are they heavily controlled? often, yes. but they aren't manufactured, that's unfair to the quality of their art.

3. the awful abuse and manipulation is a smaller portion of the industry than you'd think, but there certainly are industry-wide issues that need solving.

Approx 30 people have committed suicide.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jan/04/i-have-reported-on-30-korean-celebrity-suicides-the-blame-game-never-changes

The abuse and conditions they are put in is well documented.

[Noah 26,941]

1 minute ago, Autumn said:

there are awful issues in kpop, i admit that, but i'm sick to death of having to defend the artistic value of my favourite artists. they're controlled not manufactured. they write their own songs, they often produce their own songs, and more often than not have a huge part to play in their own creative direction. i rarely even see the manufactured narrative with western artists anymore, even the ones who play no part in the creation of their work, because self-producing artists like taylor and gaga have become the norm. the word 'manufactured' for kpop is plain incorrect.

Exactly, most Artists are creatively involved in their projects a lot and often times have many various different creative outlets. 

[Aphasic 4,033]

2 minutes ago, Noah said:

That is true, but you know thats also a thing because of the war and that it was hard for them to establish a good ‚Industry‘ (in general). So people had to work extra hard for their money and carried on their beliefs etc. 

But the KPOP Contracts you usually can leave if you‘re mentally or physically exhausted AND they‘re limited to 7 years. After 7 years like 90% of the Groups disband. 

The industry disposes its artists at a very young age. It's rare to see someone in Kpop to remain relevant or have a contract by their late 20s.

[blindinghope 216]

Just now, Aphasic Top said:

The industry disposes its artists at a very young age. It's rare to see someone in Kpop to remain relevant or have a contract by their late 20s.

Half the people I stan are older than that and are very successful 

Wtf are you talking about?

[LOVEDRUG 10,665]

Just now, Aphasic Top said:

Approx 30 people have committed suicide.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jan/04/i-have-reported-on-30-korean-celebrity-suicides-the-blame-game-never-changes

The abuse and conditions they are put in is well documented.

let's not use this statistic, since it seems to be the anti-kpop brigade's only piece of evidence for every single argument. many of the documented suicides in kpop have been of people who struggle with their mental health anyway, and again... is definitely an issue that needs solving. however using a suicide statistic is absolutely not evidence of kpop artists being 'manufactured' and 'like machines'.

speak up on abuse, because it's a serious issue in the kpop industry. however...

a. you don't need to call our artists plastic, inauthentic or manufactured in the process since this is simply not true and

b. don't act like we're dumb and think this industry is all sunshine and roses, trust me, we know too.

and i don't want to bring it up since it's a sensitive issue but perhaps the best documented kpop suicide is jonghyun from shinee, an artist who worked relentlessly to channel his emotions and feelings through his music in one of the most authentic ways. i don't have an issue with bringing up abuse, but i do have an issue when you equate abuse with being manufactured and robotic.

[Ronk 14,762]

15 minutes ago, blindinghope said:

Oh I know. But I listen to groups who actually don't have to be slaves. Try out ateez. One member has been gone for ages because of mental health issues. And the company is letting him. They take care of the group. They nurture them. So....

Everyone is aware of how shitty the industry and the companies are. We still stan the groups and support them and send love to them. We been knew. 

  The artists in those groups work hard and are very talented.  They should be shown love and support.

[NichuuB 43,788]

3 minutes ago, Autumn said:

there are awful issues in kpop, i admit that, but i'm sick to death of having to defend the artistic value of my favourite artists. they're controlled not manufactured. they write their own songs, they often produce their own songs, and more often than not have a huge part to play in their own creative direction. i rarely even see the manufactured narrative with western artists anymore, even the ones who play no part in the creation of their work, because self-producing artists like taylor and gaga have become the norm. the word 'manufactured' for kpop is plain incorrect.

I agree with you with the part of diminishing the artistic value. They do make musics as they like, of course the big groups have managers to change some stuff in a way it can be more public appealing, but this happens in the music industry as a whole. Now, about the mistreatment and pushing a hard work to the artists limits is something really abusive, that is totally  the companie's fault 

[LOVEDRUG 10,665]

3 minutes ago, Aphasic Top said:

The industry disposes its artists at a very young age. It's rare to see someone in Kpop to remain relevant or have a contract by their late 20s.

shinee. super junior. taeyeon. bigbang. exo. bts. monsta x. got7. mamamoo. apink. winner. iu... and i'm not even close to the end? those are literally the biggest artists in kpop at the moment and they're all in their late 20s.

[Noah 26,941]

Just now, Aphasic Top said:

The industry disposes its artists at a very young age. It's rare to see someone in Kpop to remain relevant or have a contract by their late 20s.

That‘s incorrect. The Industry has many artists from groups after disbandment that carry on. Most of them do not want or need to or start their studies tho. Many artists built an ‚empire‘ during their days as a Singer (by opening bakeries, buying land or houses etc.) so they do not have to work. Kpop Artists tend to either go into studies or acting/continuing music once their group days are over. Most also join the Groups in order to pursue solo careers.

The Industry is also not like the military - you can join at a young age if you want to, leave at a young age if you want to and your parents are mostly in on it and support your dream. Many artists maybe see after their training period that they‘d rather focus on studies or go on hiatuses to study etc. It‘s not as black or white.