PETAs' activists are calling for an end to human supremacy

[Peroxide555 587]

4 minutes ago, Economy said:

Yeah i also personally disagree with that. Some ppl dont hold us to the same standards of every other animal when it comes to killing for food because "animals are just killing out of instinct to survive while humans understand what killing is and can reason and follow morals since we can survive without eating meat we should"

 

But by saying eating for food doesnt apply to us because we can reason differently ur already admiting that were different from every other species on earth in our ability to reason and to have morals

 

And if were different and unique and have a higher level of self awareness i also dont agree with the "were not better than a bird or a snake" argument either

 

That doesnt mean i think animals should be abused or that their lives dont have value and they feel emotion too. I also get strongly apalled when i see how animals are treated in many circumstances especially commercially and i also think if we can exert more will power and phase off meat from our diet that would be best both environmentally and for the animals sakes. I myself eat meat but often feel guilty about it and acknowledge it would be better if i didnt and perhaps ill try to go vegetarian again like i have tried in the past

 

But despite agreeing with the idea of not eating meat and that animals should not he abused, that doesnt mean i consider them fully equal to humans. I know thats controversial but thats my opinion

Yeah, I think I'm on the same page as you... and I wouldn't say your take is controversial, to me this is the most reasonable conclusion.

And I'll commend anyone for even attempting to go vegetarian/vegan, God knows I'd find it difficult to maintain in the long run.

[Economy 52,861]

2 minutes ago, Peroxide555 said:

Yeah, I think I'm on the same page as you... and I wouldn't say your take is controversial, to me this is the most reasonable conclusion.

And I'll commend anyone for even attempting to go vegetarian/vegan, God knows I'd find it difficult to maintain in the long run.

I meant controversial on a site like GGD where the overwhelming majority of users are very progressive leaning (and some i think overdo it)

 

I know its not as controversial opinion among the general public

[Woolfsmck 2,763]

7 hours ago, Economy said:

I meant controversial on a site like GGD where the overwhelming majority of users are very progressive leaning (and some i think overdo it)

It's not the progressive 3xtemism that's the issue....

It's the drama and personal cliqueism where by non liberals are atracked...

Kinda like the Trump extremist going off on the capitol....

I don't agree with every opinion or statement,  but they have the right to express them in a peaceful way without hostile retribution.  

[Economy 52,861]

1 hour ago, Woolfsmck said:

It's not the progressive 3xtemism that's the issue....

It's the drama and personal cliqueism where by non liberals are atracked...

Kinda like the Trump extremist going off on the capitol....

I don't agree with every opinion or statement,  but they have the right to express them in a peaceful way without hostile retribution.  

I do hate the tendency of purity tests and the agression if u dont agree with everything they say

 

But my comment itself was also refering to opinions themselves going too far in my opinion as well. It doesnt mean i dont think they arent allowed to have them nor do i childishly and imaturely get angry at ppl just cuz they have a slightly different perspective on something

[Guest]

I'm progressive, but I'm not 'no speciesism' progressive.

[GagaSine 7,464]

The truth is animal lives will never matter as much as human ones. We can try to reduce their suffering as much as possible but I don’t think we will ever be able to truly live in harmony with nature (as nature itself is often cruel and brutal)

I hate how we treat animals as commodities in this world but it is very hard to live without that, especially under capitalism with so many exploitative practices. There’s too many humans on this earth for us all to live like hunter/gatherers and have a harmonious relationship with our environment.

Peta is also such a horrid organization.  

[PartySick 172,545]

On 1/29/2021 at 6:05 PM, Chromatican said:

How is killing a dog any worse than killing any other animal?

I will never understand this

Don't equate our family members, best friends, companions, professional partners, and handicap workers to livestock or beasts of burden.

No animal deserves to suffer, I'm with you on the overall concept of a meat free world, but a comparison like this is one is just as weird and incorrect as saying "we let women get abortions so why is it illegal to murder a toddler?"

We didn't spend 10s of thousands of years selectively breeding the perfect partners just to have them be compared to bacon

[GagaSine 7,464]

1 minute ago, PartySick said:

I will never understand this

Don't equate our family members, best friends, companions, professional partners, and handicap workers to livestock or beasts of burden.

No animal deserves to suffer, I'm with you on the overall concept of a meat free world, but a comparison like this is one is just as weird and incorrect as saying "we let women get abortions so why is it illegal to murder a toddler?"

We didn't spend 10s of thousands of years selectively breeding the perfect partners just to have them be compared to bacon

I mean we selectively bred livestock for thousands of years to be food, it’s not their fault. And pigs are just as intelligent as dogs.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

Its always the same. The same damn tired sh*t in these threads. Its the same arguments, the same sentiments, I feel like I'm going insane reading the comments because its nothing new and it feels like a broken record on repeat. 

Vegans, you do you. That's a challenge. Every damn time I see vegans try force their ideals on people to make them covert from eating meat to eating plants. It is so tired omg. 

There is a fine line between what is food and what is not food. Comparing a cow (an animal that has been eaten for centuries, millenia) to a dog is completely stupid and wrong. Is animal cruelty wrong? Absolutely. But attacking meat eaters is not how you handle that. What about the people who abuse Elephants in India and use them for tourist purposes? What about poachers killing and posing with animals they shot dead for the gram? What about aquariums that keep dolphins in tiny little boxes for their entire lives? THOSE are the people you need to go after. THOSE are the industries you need to tackle. 

You can attack factory farming because that is unethical. BUT there are many ways to farm and get your meat than from a factory farm. Infact there are many green ways to farm. Its not bad to eat meat. And if you support your local organic farm that grass feeds and raises the cows properly, you'll be doing the environment and yourself a huge benefit and you WON'T be supporting factory farms. As someone said, killing animals for food is natural - and we know which animals are food and which are not - but animal abuse is not natural.

Its time vegans get off people's backs and actually start thinking for a change. Instead of attacking one side, look at it from others. And then try get these places shut down who mistreat animals. You will never convert everyone you meet into becoming vegan. The world doesn't work like that. If you want to eat plants then you do that. Its your choice that you've consciously made. It doesn't have to do with anyone else but you. 

[Emvee 8,831]

On 1/29/2021 at 11:48 AM, HEARTSTOP said:

Their point is that humans are not superior. But if that's the case, we should behave like other animals and not give a **** about what we kill or not. Other animals don't care either.

That’s misconstruing. Anti-Speciesism wouldn’t advocate that any more than Anti-homophobia would mandate that we all need to be in same sex relationships. In other words, that’s not at all what the conclusion is there.

This conversation is about humans destroying natural ecosystems and mass marketing animals for daily consumption... as if Humans are the only thing the Earth needs to sustain itself. Hell, the earth doesn’t need these ecosystems. WE need these ecosystems.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

Just now, E Z said:

That’s misconstruing. Anti-Speciesism wouldn’t advocate that any more than Anti-homophobia would mandate that we all need to be in same sex relationships. In other words, that’s not at all what the conclusion is there.

This conversation is about humans destroying natural ecosystems and mass marketing animals for daily consumption... as if Humans are the only thing the Earth needs to sustain itself. Hell, the earth doesn’t need these ecosystems. WE need these ecosystems.

You're wrong. The earth needs the ecosystems just as much as we do. All living things on this planet depend on the natural ecosystems that have existed throughout time. That includes the food chain. The ecosystems are so delicate that if one breaks up, then it will have a domino effect on others.

For example, if bees were to become extinct then forests and flowers would wilt. The wildlife that use trees as their home would become extinct, the animals that eat those animals would become extinct, and those animals at the top of the food chain would also most likely become extinct. Everything has a knock-on effect. So yes, we need the ecosystems but so does every living thing on this planet 

[Chromatican 4,046]

35 minutes ago, PartySick said:

I will never understand this

Don't equate our family members, best friends, companions, professional partners, and handicap workers to livestock or beasts of burden.

No animal deserves to suffer, I'm with you on the overall concept of a meat free world, but a comparison like this is one is just as weird and incorrect as saying "we let women get abortions so why is it illegal to murder a toddler?"

We didn't spend 10s of thousands of years selectively breeding the perfect partners just to have them be compared to bacon

So animals only have value if they are cared for by humans? By that logic, a dog without an owner being killed is no different than a cow without an owner being killed. Dogs and cats are not automatically more worthy of life because of selective breeding that has actually caused many dogs to live with permanent illness and troubles due to inbreeding and trait selection.
 

Comparing a zygote to a toddler is also a poor comparison because what we designate as “beasts of burden” and “appropriate to eat” varies greatly from culture to culture and throughout time. Pigs are extremely intelligent yet you dismissively refer to them as bacon. Vegans aren’t against abortion by and large because it does not harm sentient beings.
 

Don’t think just because you don’t participate in the Yulin dog festival you are any better than those who do if you support a system that takes animals that could be cared for just as much as our pets and massacres them. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Chromatican said:

So animals only have value if they are cared for by humans? By that logic, a dog without an owner being killed is no different than a cow without an owner being killed. Dogs and cats are not automatically more worthy of life because of selective breeding that has actually caused many dogs to live with permanent illness and troubles due to inbreeding and trait selection.
 

Comparing a zygote to a toddler is also a poor comparison because what we designate as “beasts of burden” and “appropriate to eat” varies greatly from culture to culture and throughout time. Pigs are extremely intelligent yet you dismissively refer to them as bacon. Vegans aren’t against abortion by and large because it does not harm sentient beings.
 

Don’t think just because you don’t participate in the Yulin dog festival you are any better than those who do if you support a system that takes animals that could be cared for just as much as our pets and massacres them. 

We know that dogs and cats aren't food, and we know that cows and pigs are. Throughout time we have always eaten certain animals, and kept others as pets/friends or left alone in the wild. The Ancient Egyptians worshiped cats and dogs, even thought of some of them to be gods. 

Not every single animal is the same as eachother. We are all animals, but we don't kill eachother for food. We as animals are part of the natural foodchain that has existed since humans first lived. We are at the top of the foodchain. We eat other animals, but we know what animals constitutes as food and what doesn’t. Dogs aren't food and the festival in China needs shut down. Even if they are without an owner, they are not food and have never been considered as food. Cows have always been considered food. 

Its nonsensical to compare dogs to cows, or cats to pigs. Its not something humans came up with and this concept doesn’t just apply to humans. It applies to every living thing on this earth. We didn't designate what is food and what is not, its called nature. Nature decided. Just like it decided that lions hunt and kill antelope for their food. Thats life

[Chromatican 4,046]

2 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

We know that dogs and cats aren't food, and we know that cows and pigs are. Throughout time we have always eaten certain animals, and kept others as pets/friends or left alone in the wild. The Ancient Egyptians worshiped cats and dogs, even thought of some of them to be gods. 

Not every single animal is the same as eachother. We are all animals, but we don't kill eachother for food. We as animals are part of the natural foodchain that has existed since humans first lived. We are at the top of the foodchain. We eat other animals, but we know what animals constitutes as food and what doesn’t. Dogs aren't food and the festival in China needs shut down. Even if they are without an owner, they are not food and have never been considered as food. Cows have always been considered food. 

Its nonsensical to compare dogs to cows, or cats to pigs. Its not something humans came up with and this concept doesn’t just apply to humans. It applies to every living thing on this earth. We didn't designate what is food and what is not, its called nature. Nature decided. Just like it decided that lions hunt and kill antelope for their food. Thats life

Nature did not designate what animals were food and what animals were not. If that was the case all cultures would view all animals in the same way. In North America most of the animals we eat are not even native to our environment. Cows are not eaten by Indians for instance, so the idea that it is an immutable fact that they are food is a lie. All you carnists should just say you are culturally infallible and superior to poc for only eating certain animals. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Chromatican said:

Nature did not designate what animals were food and what animals were not. If that was the case all cultures would view all animals in the same way. In North America most of the animals we eat are not even native to our environment. Cows are not eaten by Indians for instance, so the idea that it is an immutable fact that they are food is a lie. All you carnists should just say you are culturally infallible and superior to poc for only eating certain animals. 

Yes it did. Back in cave man times, nobody told these people what were food and what was not. And they didn't come up with it. They hunted and they ate meat. Granted, the animals they ate are extinct... but humans eating meat has always been the natural order. Just like other animals eat other smaller animals, who eat smaller animals, who eat other smaller animals and so on. 

You are thinking of all animals being the same, which is wrong. Not all animals are the same, and its not natural to treat them all the same. A wild boar can't be treated the same as a wild tree frog from Brazil. 

We have always known what animal was food and what animal was not food, and its not a concept we came up with - its the natural order and natural selection of the world.

 

Religion is something that humans came up with. Religious bases cultures in which they worship animals such as cows and pigs is something created by humans. Its not the natural order of things, but if that's their culture and religion then that's what they should believe as its upto them.