Consequence of sound: 100 greatest singers of all time

[PopMusicForever 383]

12 hours ago, xoxo Craig said:

The fact that Gaga isn't on this list means that it is irrelevant 

[Justin Drew Bieber 25,317]

Bieber should be in the Top 15

[latina twilight 2,319]

I won't deny anybody from their legacy, that's one thing, but to place MJ higher than Diana, Aretha, Stevie, Freddie, etc., and Madonna being higher then Patti Smith and Annie Lennox (I love Madge tho), no ma'am.

This is another popularity contest.

 

I would really like to know what the different criterias are for this list.

[Born This Way 1,575]

I'm sorry, I have to laff.

[LilyLark 9,694]

44 minutes ago, NightOwner said:

I won't deny anybody from their legacy, that's one thing, but to place MJ higher than Diana, Aretha, Stevie, Freddie, etc., and Madonna being higher then Patti Smith and Annie Lennox (I love Madge tho), no ma'am.

This is another popularity contest.

 

I would really like to know what the different criterias are for this list.

Yup. I'm curious as to how they ranked these performers because if it's just by vocal ability.....uh lol. MJ was insanely talented and a great vocalist—arguably the best performer of all times—but most people would not put his vocal abilities above Freddie, Stevie, Teddy Pendergrass, etc.

Regardless of the criteria they used, it's insane Chuck Berry isn't on the list (be it performing, sales, vocals, etc.). He almost always tops most of the "greatest" lists due to his impact.

[Guillaume Hamon 5,571]

8 hours ago, vixdean said:

I don’t understand this obsession with minimising Madonna’s singing abilities! She’s no vocalist, and that’s not what she has built her career, cultural impact and achievements on, but she has proved plenty of times she can sing.

And she is 90 in this mess of a list.

There are many others right at the top that you could claim are simply not the best singers of all time in a vocal ability sense. Just look at Johnny Cash, or Bjork - are they some of the best singers in a vocal ability sense? Absolutely not.

Cash and Bjork are not A-list vocalists indeed but they rarely make false notes while Madonna is often off key. I would'nt put them in the same box vocally.

[Guillaume Hamon 5,571]

16 hours ago, Pennywise said:

Not some of y'all trashing Madonna as if she didn't literally invent all of the modern pop girlies, including Gaga 

Cher did most of that but this credit is often erased and given away to Madonna.

[Pennywise 34,947]

1 hour ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Cher did most of that but this credit is often erased and given away to Madonna.

Yeah, even I forget about her sometimes  maybe it’s because she wasn’t in the public eye as much, but her impact is undeniable, too

[vixdean 1,061]

15 hours ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Cher did most of that but this credit is often erased and given away to Madonna.

I love Cher and credit must be given where it's due, but we are talking about two completely different artists, who achieved very different things, and completely different reaches. What Madonna did is not what Cher did.

Madonna is the blueprint of the modern female pop star, and all the others that came after, followed that blueprint in one way or another. Her level of stardom globally remains unmatched. Cher has herself admitted that on Twitter and in interviews.

This is of course not to discredit Cher, who has definitely a unrivalled place in the Divas pantheon, but Madonna defined the prototype of female pop-stardom as we know it today. From the start of her career, her work has always been political - tackled homophobia, the AIDS pandemic and female, queer desire - like no artists before her ever did, including Cher.

Madonna invented the blueprint for all the pop culture staples du jour, from the theatrical, chock full of production value stadium tour (the Blond Ambition tour is credited as the tour that set the standard for pop live shows) to shock value promotion, to gender-bending fashion and iconography.

Again, I don't mean to discredit Cher, but they are not in the same lane and what they did is not comparable.

[Ziggy 10,371]

On 12/27/2020 at 6:03 PM, vixdean said:

I don’t understand this obsession with minimising Madonna’s singing abilities! She’s no vocalist, and that’s not what she has built her career, cultural impact and achievements on, but she has proved plenty of times she can sing.

And she is 90 in this mess of a list.

There are many others right at the top that you could claim are simply not the best singers of all time in a vocal ability sense. Just look at Johnny Cash, or Bjork - are they some of the best singers in a vocal ability sense? Absolutely not.

Björk hasn’t always had great technique, but she really never misses a note. Beyond that, she has a pretty expansive range and her style has a tendency to be difficult to pull off (even with previously poor technique). Her harmonies and melodies are a good example of that as they tend to be elongated and require a lot of control.

I think people tend to give Björk crap because she sings in unconventional ways that can sound harsh to the ear sometimes if you’re used to a “typical” pop or classical vocal. But I think her being on these lists is only fair especially when you consider all the experimentations she’s done (in throat-singing, for example, which is something she’s adapted into her style). The reason people are poo-pooing Madonna here (at least the reasonable people), are saying as much because she’s really not a “greatest of all time” singer which you also own up to.

 

I got respect for Madonna. She is all the things you said, which tbh is probably why she’s on this list in the first place as this doesn’t seem too focused on actual singing lol, but I wouldn’t say she’s among the ranks of Aretha or Adele vocally.

[Guillaume Hamon 5,571]

9 hours ago, vixdean said:

I love Cher and credit must be given where it's due, but we are talking about two completely different artists, who achieved very different things, and completely different reaches. What Madonna did is not what Cher did.

Madonna is the blueprint of the modern female pop star, and all the others that came after, followed that blueprint in one way or another. Her level of stardom globally remains unmatched. Cher has herself admitted that on Twitter and in interviews.

This is of course not to discredit Cher, who has definitely a unrivalled place in the Divas pantheon, but Madonna defined the prototype of female pop-stardom as we know it today. From the start of her career, her work has always been political - tackled homophobia, the AIDS pandemic and female, queer desire - like no artists before her ever did, including Cher.

Madonna invented the blueprint for all the pop culture staples du jour, from the theatrical, chock full of production value stadium tour (the Blond Ambition tour is credited as the tour that set the standard for pop live shows) to shock value promotion, to gender-bending fashion and iconography.

Again, I don't mean to discredit Cher, but they are not in the same lane and what they did is not comparable.

You don't need a Madonna-level reach to make of a certain thing "the new big thing" so I'm not sure Madonna having a bigger stardom is relevent to say she's the one who instored some standards.  Only her, Elvis, Michael or the Beatles would have been able to start trends in the last 60 years if it was what it takes.

Each time I hear about the female popstar blueprint I mainly hear about renewal of sound and image and Cher was already on the middle of one more switch when Madonna arrived. Madonna's idol debby Harry also went through punk, disco and rap before Madonna started to get praise for "making female popstars renew themselves frequently".

Also concerning schock values, more or less everything has been done in the 70's before Madonna arrived. These vintage rockstars/ discostars lyrics were more sexually explicit and blasphemious than Madonna's ones ever were for example and these old acts were the actual popstars of their time, what the youth listened to/ followed. M took the lead for provocation during the conservative Reagan era and eventually did it without the drug-related provocations, focusing on sex and religion with the still recent sexual revolution having done a lot for her to be able to come and do her thing.

60's Cher was trashed for showing her belly button on TV ( so absurd lol ) prior to the sexual revolution to say how helpful it was for letting women on charge of their own body. She later was at the MET gala in the 70's with a nearly naked dress with the world commenting but folks forget she pushed the enveloppe a lot before Madonna started from where she left and pushed it more. Same with Cher concerts that were considered as big for a female star before M "blond ambition tour" placed the bar higher.

The same tour was creditted for making headset mic a thing but iconic singer/ dancer kate Bush was using these for her shows prior to that but got erased to praise Madonna instead. For gender-bending it's the likes of Grace Jones and David Bowie who made it iconic in pop culture first and went way further than madonna or gaga but they're erased by medias voices who grew up with Madonna and prefer to credit her.

For the political side It's true madonna did a lot since 1989 but Cher publically accepting her trans kid in the 90's and discussing it on TV was also enormous imo. When you see how worst transphobia is than homophobia to this day... I think Cher did wonders, mainly since she was already an old lady therefore less expected to do that. Also this credit to her AIDS activism fight slowly takes more and more place while Elizabeth Taylor one slowly dissapear even if she started years before M.

I'm not trying to deny M impact and help, I just wish she would'nt be creditted for starting everything she followed in her time just like I don't want gaga to be praised for bringing stuffs madonna or others actually did prior someday. 

[freebit 6,073]

Any "Greatest Singers" list that includes Bob Dylan is not to be taken seriously.  Same with Joanne Newsom & her affected, creepy voice - "Greatest Artists" lists, ok, but singers?