14th poll shows support for Scottish Independence

[Better Day 5,766]

45 minutes ago, bionic said:

Hardly an overwhelming majority though 

It is. They were a poll last month stating 58% of Scots supported independence. 

[Better Day 5,766]

50 minutes ago, bionic said:

Hardly an overwhelming majority though 

Can I ask? Why do you not support Scottish Independence?
You’ve post a couple of times on my threads being negative about our movement

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

54 minutes ago, bionic said:

Hardly an overwhelming majority though 

These are just polls, but if there were a referendum tomorrow, the estimated percentage would be over 60% which is an overwhelming majority. These polls have put the average percentage around 56-58% in favour of independence, which is higher than the 55% who voted "no" in 2014. 

The SNP are predicted to get around 55% of the votes in next year's election, along with the Scottish greens which will make up for 60% of people who voted for pro-independence parties.

If you vote against Scottish independence, you are voting in favour of another Trump who wants to turn the UK (England) into a mini-USA. Voting for Scotland's right to choose its own path and voting in favour of independence means that you reject the right-wing agenda of the Tory party. 

Independence will happen. The question is not should it happen, but rather WHEN. The UK will be no more

[donatellab 2,476]

If Scotland finally gets free, then i’ll definitely pack my bags and move there for good. I wish luck and all the best to all Scottish monsters out there 

[Ayesha Erotica 1,960]

1 minute ago, Miss Dolly said:

Can I ask? Why do you not support Scottish Independence?
You’ve post a couple of times on my threads being negative about our movement

I have totally supported Scotland's Independence in 2014, as well as Catalonia's Independence.

I think of Scotland as a distinct nation that should not be foreign-ruled by centralist London.

However, I am AGAINST a second referendum (now). Why? You have had your chance.

There was a democratic referendum and people voted for the UK... I was shocked by it, however I respect the democratic outcome. People gave their UNIQUE chance away, now they must deal with it.

Events like Brexit, etc. were all good reasons back then to vote for leaving the UK.

One cannot infinitely repeat referendums until the desired outcome.

I'm strongly against a second Scottish referendum and a referendum for the UK on joining the EU back again.

Such referendums are ultra-precious. There are a once-in-a-lifetime CHANCE. They are not election cycles

53 minutes ago, bionic said:

Hardly an overwhelming majority though 

They have had their chance. They did not use it.

once London is starting to sow fear and tell Scotland it's not protected against space attacks from outer space, the percentage will fall below 50% again

 

 

[Ayesha Erotica 1,960]

10 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

Voting for Scotland's right to choose its own path and voting in favour of independence means that you reject the right-wing agenda of the Tory party. 

Independence will happen. The question is not should it happen, but rather WHEN. The UK will be no more

I wish independence for you. However, if the only reason for you is to avoid right-wing politics, then I think it is a very weak reason. What makes you so sure the UK will still be right-wing in 10 years? Politics may change quickly.

And I'm sorry to say, I wish you really independence, but Scotland hasn't been independent for the past 300 years and likely won't be in the next 300 years... you know rumour has it, London only granted independence referendum for Scotland because they made secret polls and KNEW that Scots ain't gonna for for it in majority... Regarding the polls now, London will simply reject it. What are you going do about it? you can't really change it. London is vested with all powers

 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

8 minutes ago, LoliLux said:

I have totally supported Scotland's Independence in 2014, as well as Catalonia's Independence.

I think of Scotland as a distinct nation that should not be foreign-ruled by centralist London.

However, I am AGAINST a second referendum (now). Why? You have had your chance.

There was a democratic referendum and people voted for the UK... I was shocked by it, however I respect the democratic outcome. People gave their UNIQUE chance away, now they must deal with it.

Events like Brexit, etc. were all good reasons back then to vote for leaving the UK.

One cannot infinitely repeat referendums until the desired outcome.

I'm strongly against a second Scottish referendum and a referendum for the UK on joining the EU back again.

Such referendums are ultra-precious. There are a once-in-a-lifetime CHANCE. They are not election cycles

They have had their chance. They did not use it.

once London is starting to sow fear and tell Scotland it's not protected against space attacks from outer space, the percentage will fall below 50% again

 

 

So do you believe that people can't change their minds if what they voted on is now null and void? 

And by the way, its written into the constitution of Northern Ireland that they can have a border poll every 7 years. So given that its okay for Northern Ireland, and the situation we face in 2020 is very different to 2014, there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be able to hold a second independence referendum. 

The democratic will of the Scottish people has changed. These 14 polls prove that, aling with the numerous elections that the SNP have won. By rejecting another referendum or saying that "there should only be one vote" is undemocratic and going against the will of the Scottish people.

[Better Day 5,766]

8 minutes ago, LoliLux said:

I have totally supported Scotland's Independence in 2014, as well as Catalonia's Independence.

I think of Scotland as a distinct nation that should not be foreign-ruled by centralist London.

However, I am AGAINST a second referendum (now). Why? You have had your chance.

There was a democratic referendum and people voted for the UK... I was shocked by it, however I respect the democratic outcome. People gave their UNIQUE chance away, now they must deal with it.

Events like Brexit, etc. were all good reasons back then to vote for leaving the UK.

One cannot infinitely repeat referendums until the desired outcome.

I'm strongly against a second Scottish referendum and a referendum for the UK on joining the EU back again.

Such referendums are ultra-precious. There are a once-in-a-lifetime CHANCE. They are not election cycles

They have had their chance. They did not use it.

once London is starting to sow fear and tell Scotland it's not protected against space attacks from outer space, the percentage will fall below 50% again

 

 

I was devastated at the result of the 2014 referendum but I accepted the result because that was what the people of Scotland wanted. However, the leaders of the UK promised us devolution max (pretty much most powers), we would stay in the EU. We never got the powers they promised. 
In 2016, the UK voted to leave the EU at 52% HOWEVER, Scotland (all 32 council areas) voted to remain at 62%. As of January 2020 we are no longer EU citizens which devastated myself. The “Once in a generation” argument is bulls*** because a political generation is 7 years. If our promises were kept I would of dealt with being in the union but we keep getting sh****ed on by the UK government by a Government we never voted for. We send 59 MPs down to Westminister but with England having 533 MPS we never get a say because what England votes we get anyways - Triden renewal, Bedroom tax, welfare reforms. 
 

Scotland bought the lies from Westminister last time but the fear won’t work this time. Everyday the UK has been an incompetent mess again - 12 billion on a Track and trace in England that doesn’t work. 
 

I really don’t see one positive argument for the Union anymore. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

6 minutes ago, LoliLux said:

I wish independence for you. However, if the only reason for you is to avoid right-wing politics, then I think it is a very weak reason. What makes you so sure the UK will still be right-wing in 10 years? Politics may change quickly.

And I'm sorry to say, I wish you really independence, but Scotland hasn't been independent for the past 300 years and likely won't be in the next 300 years... you know rumour has it, London only granted independence referendum for Scotland because they made secret polls and KNEW that Scots ain't gonna for for it in majority... Regarding the polls now, London will simply reject it. What are you going do about it? you can't really change it. London is vested with all powers

 

England has always been traditionally a right-wing country. The party that its voted the most is the Tories. The current government under Boris Johnson is the most right wing government since Margaret Thratcher. Even Labour has shifted its position to appeal to voters. A once socialist party has became more and more center. But the will of the English people does not suit Labourism, and its why they have done so poorly in recent elections. 

Scotland always votes one way and England another. Yet its England that gets the majority. Its just one way of how England manipulates things. They know they can't afford to lose Scotland because if we leave the UK, they'll go bankrupt. They try claim that we have debt, but that's impossible because we don't have any borrowing powers in Scotland. So we don't actually have any debt. England and the UK will be financially worse off if Scotland leaves. The rumour that you heard is false. 

London cannot reject the will of the Scottish people. There are other means and ways of getting independence than a referendum. We don't have to ask England for one. Did India ask for permission? Did Ireland? Or any other country that has left the UK? No. So why should we? We don't. Its just the nice and polite way of doing things. But England cannot deny Scotland's right of democracy and its own right choose its own path. That would be an unattainable position for the UK Government, and would be extremely undemocratic.

Its not just about right wing politics. Its about everything. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

11 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

I was devastated at the result of the 2014 referendum but I accepted the result because that was what the people of Scotland wanted. However, the leaders of the UK promised us devolution max (pretty much most powers), we would stay in the EU. We never got the powers they promised. 
In 2016, the UK voted to leave the EU at 52% HOWEVER, Scotland (all 32 council areas) voted to remain at 62%. As of January 2020 we are no longer EU citizens which devastated myself. The “Once in a generation” argument is bulls*** because a political generation is 7 years. If our promises were kept I would of dealt with being in the union but we keep getting sh****ed on by the UK government by a Government we never voted for. We send 59 MPs down to Westminister but with England having 533 MPS we never get a say because what England votes we get anyways - Triden renewal, Bedroom tax, welfare reforms. 
 

Scotland bought the lies from Westminister last time but the fear won’t work this time. Everyday the UK has been an incompetent mess again - 12 billion on a Track and trace in England that doesn’t work. 
 

I really don’t see one positive argument for the Union anymore. 

There isn't a positive case for the Union anymore. 

[Better Day 5,766]

2 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

There isn't a positive case for the Union anymore. 

They isn't. The phrase 'Scotland can't....' doesn't sit well with me. We would be the only country in the world under this view the country wouldn't be able to sustain itself which has infact a lie.

[Ayesha Erotica 1,960]

3 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

So do you believe that people can't change their minds if what they voted on is now null and void? 

And by the way, its written into the constitution of Northern Ireland that they can have a border poll every 7 years. 

 

I believe they can. People are allowed to change their minds as often as Gaga changes her clothes. 

The supporters/defenders of Scottish Independence (ScIn) said back then in 2013 and 2014 clearly, that the most important reason for voting fot ScIn is that Scots will have their destiny in their own hands, regardless of what England wants. By NOT voting for ScIn, they give AWAY their destiny. By not voting for ScIn, they agreed to the majority-rule of England (!). Of course, England will always vote in its own interests. That should have always been clear.

They trusted England, although they have been warned. The majority of Scots did not listen to the arguments of the supportes and defenders. The result that we have right now (Scotland as part of the UK), is the rightful "punishment" for Scotland because they ignored the warning of the supportes of ScIn.

England is in no way obliged to please Scotland.

6 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

 By rejecting another referendum or saying that "there should only be one vote" is undemocratic and going against the will of the Scottish people.

You have a strong argument. I won't argue against it. It is true that rejecting it, is undemocratic. But we don't know how Scots will think in 5 years. If you will have a referendum in 2021, then there will have to be a referendum in 2028 again for the pro-UK people.

2 minutes ago, Miss Dolly said:

I was devastated at the result of the 2014 referendum but I accepted the result because that was what the people of Scotland wanted. However, the leaders of the UK promised us devolution max (pretty much most powers), we would stay in the EU. We never got the powers they promised. [..] If our promises were kept I would of dealt with being in the union but we keep getting sh****ed on by the UK government by a Government we never voted for. We send 59 MPs down to Westminister but with England having 533 MPS we never get a say because what England votes we get anyways - Triden renewal, Bedroom tax, welfare reforms. 

I really don’t see one positive argument for the Union anymore. 

I was devastated, too. If people listenend to the supporters of ScIn, they would have known that Londons promises are nothing but empty lies. You are never going to get these powers. The UK will always be centralist, never like Switzerland. The quote in bold was clear though.

By not voting for ScIn, Scots voted for English-majority ruled. Scots allowed in 2014 themselves to be ruled by England. They voted for England's rule and they...finally got England's rule.

I also think, that it's better for Scotlond to be an independent nation. But I am against a second referendum...this is only opening the door for a neverending referendum

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Miss Dolly said:

They isn't. The phrase 'Scotland can't....' doesn't sit well with me. We would be the only country in the world under this view the country wouldn't be able to sustain itself which has infact a lie.

Exactly. We aren't some tiny third world country. Its bugs me so much when people say "Scotland can't..." or "you'd be nowhere without the UK" when it was projected that Scotland would be one of the world's most richest countries a few years back. 

Its a complete fallacy to put down Scotland and it's people, and we're done with it. 

[Better Day 5,766]

1 minute ago, LoliLux said:

I believe they can. People are allowed to change their minds as often as Gaga changes her clothes. 

The supporters/defenders of Scottish Independence (ScIn) said back then in 2013 and 2014 clearly, that the most important reason for voting fot ScIn is that Scots will have their destiny in their own hands, regardless of what England wants. By NOT voting for ScIn, they give AWAY their destiny. By not voting for ScIn, they agreed to the majority-rule of England (!). Of course, England will always vote in its own interests. That should have always been clear.

They trusted England, although they have been warned. The majority of Scots did not listen to the arguments of the supportes and defenders. The result that we have right now (Scotland as part of the UK), is the rightful "punishment" for Scotland because they ignored the warning of the supportes of ScIn.

England is in no way obliged to please Scotland.

You have a strong argument. I won't argue against it. It is true that rejecting it, is undemocratic. But we don't know how Scots will think in 5 years. If you will have a referendum in 2021, then there will have to be a referendum in 2028 again for the pro-UK people.

I was devastated, too. If people listenend to the supporters of ScIn, they would have known that Londons promises are nothing but empty lies. You are never going to get these powers. The UK will always be centralist, never like Switzerland. The quote in bold was clear though.

By not voting for ScIn, Scots voted for English-majority ruled. Scots allowed in 2014 themselves to be ruled by England. They voted for England's rule and they...finally got England's rule.

I also think, that it's better for Scotlond to be an independent nation. But I am against a second referendum...this is only opening the door for a neverending referendum

It would not be a neverending referendum. Democracy and people's interests can change. It has been clear since 2016 that the interests for Scotland has been very very different from the interests of England. If we do vote for independence and they are a movement say in the 2030 for joining the UK again let it be as long as they have plently of support from the people of Scotland. However, they won't be. Scotland will be better off away from the UK because being in the union is holding us back.

 

[Better Day 5,766]

3 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

Exactly. We aren't some tiny third world country. Its bugs me so much when people say "Scotland can't..." or "you'd be nowhere without the UK" when it was projected that Scotland would be one of the world's most richest countries a few years back. 

Its a complete fallacy to put down Scotland and it's people, and we're done with it. 

They are scared because they want to drain us of all our resources and leave us with nothing. What bugged me, in 2014, they were one poll stating that independence was at 51% and all 3 leaders of the political parties rushed up to Scotland to beg us to stay and that just sold the independence movement to me.