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Official Discussion Thread: U.S Presidential Election 2020

Lion Heart

Found the voter fraud 

 

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Fish
1 hour ago, FATCAT said:

and it's sad because many of them are willing to hand Republicans wins and let people suffer all over the country just because some dems don't fit their purity tests. You don't have to love a candidates every policy to vote for them. It's a zero-sum game when it comes to elections in this country, and they're shooting themselves in the foot. You vote for the candidate that MOST fits your views & has the best chance of winning. Voting is secret, you don't get brownie points for throwing your vote in the trash on principal.

this is a very sad and intellectually dishonest post. i had to call it out. lefties also have beliefs and dreams. this is not just about who the purest. They believe in a better world and are ready to fight for it. Yes, sometimes compromises will be necessary, but sometimes not. and sometimes shouldn't. The left ran so Biden could barely crawl into the WH. 

 

and your whole vote for the lesser evil rhetoric? wow what a world. the american electoral system is broken, and yall are stuck in this bipartisan ****ed up rhetoric its actually so sad. 

Edited by Fish
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FATCAT
5 minutes ago, Fish said:

this is a very sad and intellectually dishonest post. i had to call it out. lefties also have beliefs and dreams. this is not just about who the purest. They believe in a better world and are ready to fight for it. Yes, sometimes compromises will be necessary, but sometimes not. and sometimes shouldn't. The left ran so Biden could barely crawl into the WH. 

But they're not fighting for that better world, they're fighting everyone trying to actually get to that better world. They don't want compromise, they want purity. It's why they continue to preach that the best thing politically is for their version of the perfect leftist party, but it won't help win elections in Georgia. It won't help win elections in Pennsylvania. It won't help win elections in Florida. It won't help win elections in Texas. It only works in safe democratic seats.

*𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱* *𝘱𝘰𝘱*
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Whispering
8 hours ago, Gagaloo911 said:

He lost the primary largely because all the other moderate candidates tapped out and endorsed Biden the night before the most important day of the primary Super Tuesday, consolidating the moderate vote behind Biden while the progressive vote was still split between Bernie and Warren.

Let's not be misleading and provide information out of context please. Be honest.

So, there were more Moderates than Progressives voting.

As long as that is the case, a moderate will win.

If Progressives want to win, they have to show up to out vote the moderates. 

 

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StarstruckIllusion
18 minutes ago, Whispering said:

So, there were more Moderates than Progressives voting.

As long as that is the case, a moderate will win.

If Progressives want to win, they have to show up to out vote the moderates. 

 

Good thing they are bc all the Progressive Democrats won their House races and more Progressive Democrats won seats :)

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caulixtla
1 hour ago, Fish said:

this is a very sad and intellectually dishonest post. i had to call it out. lefties also have beliefs and dreams. this is not just about who the purest. They believe in a better world and are ready to fight for it.

If you want a better world, fight for it in a way which actually works. Trying to start from the top (being president) down does not work. To get results, start from the bottom and move up. With AOC and the rest of the squad in congress, that is where we are. To get results, look at getting ballot measures passed, because a lot of people in a lot of red areas will may not vote for someone they think is a socialist will support progressive measures if it’s sufficiently divorced from the “socialist” label.

Vote to make national ranked choice voting a thing. This way, people can vote for a third party without helping Republicans (by making the Democratic candidate their #2 choice).

Vote for socialist mayors, socialist local leaders, to make it so socialist causes because real.

There is an inevitable demographic shift happening. The majority of young people overwhelmingly support socialist causes, and they will continue to do so their entire life. There will come a time when the “Republican” party that exists today goes the way of the Whigs.

I remember when a Black president was unthinkable. I remember when gays were called the three-letter “F” word with impunity, when homophobia was a rite to manhood, when gay marriage was unthinkable. Those things changed, and remarkably quickly.

Things are changing. The current high income inequality will be dealt with. It will happen.

Since there has been an accusation that Biden did better than Sanders + Warren, I will need to perform a fact check because correct facts are important in these debates.

Let’s look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries#Schedule_and_results for the raw figures. Then, lets do some math for Super Tuesday (because, that was a big one, and because Warren then Sanders soon resigned afterwards):

-- In order: Alabama, American Samoa, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia

Biden = 286,065 + 31 + 93,012 + 1,613,854 + 236,565 + 68,729 + 473,861 + 287,553 + 572,271 + 117,633 + 215,390 + 725,562 + 40,674 + 34,669 + 705,501

Sanders = 74,755 + 37 + 51,413 + 2,080,846 + 355,293 + 66,826 + 376,990 + 222,431 + 322,645 + 77,425 + 129,168 + 626,339 + 79,728 + 79,921 + 306,388

Warren = 25,847 + 5 + 22,971 + 762,555 + 168,695 + 32,055 + 303,864 + 114,674 + 139,912 + 40,732 + 53,732 + 239,237 + 35,727 + 19,785 + 142,546

Result:

Biden got 5,471,370 voters

Sanders and Warren combined got 6,952,542 votes.

Anything after Super Tuesday is not counted here, because I’m more interested in whether progressive ideas have a chance than whether people got turned off by Sanders because of his confrontational nature.

Now, there have been long online debates about whether those Warren voters would had voted for Biden or Sanders instead. The point is moot. The point is this: This is a strong sign that, as the next generation of voters vote more, we will become a more progressive nation with more love instead of confrontation, more compassion instead of contempt, more equality, and a more fair and just world.

“Don’t be unconscious all day on your f***ing phone” — Lady Gaga
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Whispering
18 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Good thing they are bc all the Progressive Democrats won their House races and more Progressive Democrats won seats :)

We weren’t discussing down ticket races. Look back at the comment I quoted to understand the line of conversation.

They didn’t come out in the General election. 

Not for 2016 or 2020. Until they come out to vote more than the moderates, they won’t have a progressive at the top of the ticket. 

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caulixtla
5 minutes ago, Whispering said:

We weren’t discussing down ticket races. Look back at the comment I quoted to understand the line of conversation.

They didn’t come out in the General election. 

Not for 2016 or 2020. Until they come out to vote more than the moderates, they won’t have a progressive at the top of the ticket. 

Looking at the raw Super Tuesday numbers, I think, with the right candidate, we can get a lot of progressive votes. I don’t think Sanders was that candidate. Sanders + Warren did a lot better than Biden on Super Tuesday, although once Warren dropped out, Biden consistently beat Sanders.

I also think the Green Party should campaign heavily in Maine, where people can vote for them without improving things for the Republican candidate (by making the Democrat their #2 choice).

“Don’t be unconscious all day on your f***ing phone” — Lady Gaga

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OG Gaga Stan
22 minutes ago, caulixtla said:

If you want a better world, fight for it in a way which actually works. Trying to start from the top (being president) down does not work. To get results, start from the bottom and move up. 

Nearly every major social service, nearly every legal regulation to protect laborers and workers, nearly every major, foundational workplace protection that we have we got from FDR's presidency, someone that moderate liberals derided as an authoritarian because he dared to actually fight for the poor and the working class. He used every tool he had at his disposal, he threatened the Supreme Court, he campaigned against conservative liberal holdouts, and he won. Repeatedly. He won unprecedented progress for the poor and for workers and he won reelections in landslides. He got results, from the top.

Sanders was going to use executive orders to unilaterally cancel student loan debt, cancel medical debt, and withdraw significantly from the Middle East, saving countless lives. We NEED that relief, now.

People are dying right now. People need relief right now. No, we're not going to wait for decades for some eventual shift that may never come and just roll over and let your wing of the party keep running things into the ground. The left is going to do everything it can to ensure that corporate politicians stop bombing innocent children abroad, stop toppling leftist leaders in the Global South, and stop doing everything in their power to shut down progressive politicians that are actually fighting to make the lives of everyday Americans better.

This remains as relevant as always:

white-moderate.jpg

Edited by OG Gaga Stan
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StarstruckIllusion
14 minutes ago, Whispering said:

We weren’t discussing down ticket races. Look back at the comment I quoted to understand the line of conversation.

They didn’t come out in the General election. 

Not for 2016 or 2020. Until they come out to vote more than the moderates, they won’t have a progressive at the top of the ticket. 

I didn’t read the convo by an active choice. I just wanted to mention it bc it makes me smile <3

Edited by StarstruckIllusion
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whipopotamus
3 hours ago, Lion Heart said:

Found the voter fraud 

 

imagine all the 'dead voters' voted republican lmaooo

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caulixtla

Politics is like a chess game. We need to come up with a viable strategy. We can not try to win immediately with a four move checkmate, because our opponent will not fall for it, and trying to mate so quickly will just weaken our position.

There are arguments about who is the greatest chess player ever. Garry Kasparov in his prime may is arguably the person who deserves that crown (I prefer Morphy for his relative simplicity and elegant games, but know Kasparov would had beaten him, having over 120 years of knowledge Morphy didn’t have under his belt). He is one of only 16 undisputed world champions we have had since 1886.

Kasparov’s worry right now is making sure we move away from dictatorship as quickly as possible. He feels Trump is finished, that he will not be able to make anyone in power (not the courts, not the military where the power ultimately resides) have him stay president after losing last week. https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-trump-pathetic-meltdown-20201107-3o5pz2gkrze2vkrqt5gkjqfpz4-story.html

For us to try to steamroll progressive idea through without a well-thought-out strategy is like playing 2. Qh5 in chess; [1] the Republicans are too strong for us to make a weak, impatient, reckless move like that without it hurting our own position. It takes more than four moves to checkmate a strong chess player; it will take more than a single election to go from what we have today to having a world with all of our progressive ideals achieved.

Let’s play solid moves and not weaken our position with reckless gambits.

[1] 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 is well known to be bad. 1. e4 e5 2. f4 also gives black a very strong game, as long as both players are strong.

Edited by caulixtla
“Don’t be unconscious all day on your f***ing phone” — Lady Gaga

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bionic
1 hour ago, caulixtla said:

Politics is like a chess game. We need to come up with a viable strategy. We can not try to win immediately with a four move checkmate, because our opponent will not fall for it, and trying to mate so quickly will just weaken our position.

There are arguments about who is the greatest chess player ever. Garry Kasparov in his prime may is arguably the person who deserves that crown (I prefer Morphy for his relative simplicity and elegant games, but know Kasparov would had beaten him, having over 120 years of knowledge Morphy didn’t have under his belt). He is one of only 16 undisputed world champions we have had since 1886.

Kasparov’s worry right now is making sure we move away from dictatorship as quickly as possible. He feels Trump is finished, that he will not be able to make anyone in power (not the courts, not the military where the power ultimately resides) have him stay president after losing last week. https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-trump-pathetic-meltdown-20201107-3o5pz2gkrze2vkrqt5gkjqfpz4-story.html

For us to try to steamroll progressive idea through without a well-thought-out strategy is like playing 2. Qh5 in chess; [1] the Republicans are too strong for us to make a weak, impatient, reckless move like that without it hurting our own position. It takes more than four moves to checkmate a strong chess player; it will take more than a single election to go from what we have today to having a world with all of our progressive ideals achieved.

Let’s play solid moves and not weaken our position with reckless gambits.

[1] 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 is well known to be bad. 1. e4 e5 2. f4 also gives black a very strong game, as long as both players are strong.

I'm sure there are many more wannabe fascists waiting in the wings of the Republican 2024 presidential primaries

buy bionic

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Luc

It's funny how this is the exact same discussion as in the UK, but then four years later. Now Corbyn (basically an exact replica of Bernie Sanders) got the biggest electoral defeat in like 50 years in the UK last year, he stepped down and got replaced with a centre-left candidate. Suddenly, the Labour party is polling better than Boris Johnson's conservatives. 

 

Fighting for electoral reform is going to prove much more productive. To win the election right now you need a +5D national advantage. That's crazy, it means you have to appeal to millions more conservatives and moderates than in a fair popular vote system. Get rid of the electoral college system and give statehood to DC, PR and maybe another state. And forbid gerrymandering. That will allow future democrats to run further to the left and still win. And the democrat will actually get **** done lol.

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KORG

Its lovely you guys want a hard shift to the left, but that kind of disconnect with reality is why its not happening. 

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