Two beheaded in Nice, France mass stabbing suspected terror attack

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, lego said:

just recognized that rhetoric, whether he’s a western muslim or knows other western muslims and is very familiar with islamophobia. That’s all. 

You miss the whole point.

You remind me, and I'm sorry if it might offend, but to Twitter SJWs who whenever they see one criticism of people who are not white, christian, republicans, they put out a -phobe, -ist card of the day and think they are morally better than everyone else. That's not how the world works.

Also you kept asking questions about the differences etc because you just talk instead of listening. We have people here who come from many different countries who are islamic or from immigration and lived in muslim families etc meanwhile Im not even sure you're part of that community or has ever been yet you tell them they are somethingsomething phobe, so that you feel like you're a very kind person fighting for the rights of the people.

[lego 44,165]

1 minute ago, KanyeWest said:

You miss the whole point.

You remind me, and I'm sorry if it might offend, but to Twitter SJWs who whenever they see one criticism of people who are not white, christian, republicans, they put out a -phobe, -ist card of the day and think they are morally better than everyone else. That's not how the world works.

 

Thanks hon, you couldn’t be more wrong because I’ve actually personally experienced it. but whatever 

[lego 44,165]

2 minutes ago, KanyeWest said:

We have people here who come from many different countries who are islamic or from immigration and lived in muslim families etc meanwhile Im not even sure you're part of that community or has ever been yet you tell them they are somethingsomething phobe, so that you feel like you're a very kind person fighting for the rights of the people.

 

Lol. Now you can be sure, but because of rampant islamophobia on this site, I didn’t say for years what community I belong to. So please let me defend myself and my family and friends. We have nothing to apologize for and we are not able to “tackle” this problem. We are tired of the blame. 

[lego 44,165]

I am someone who was Christian half of her life and the other half- Muslim, by my own choice. My own country committed genocide against Muslims in the 90s and I was actually alive in that period. I remember how it started, I know what dehumanization and generalization does.  I lived through bombardment from NATO. I lived through being attacked for being Muslim in a Western country. I do know what I’m talking about, I’m not your random sjw (your favorite word) so please spare me. You have your experiences and I have mine. @KanyeWest  

 

[NichuuB 43,788]

2 minutes ago, lego said:

 

Lol. Now you can be sure, but because of rampant islamophobia on this site, I didn’t say for years what community I belong to. So please let me defend myself and my family and friends. We have nothing to apologize for and we are not able to “tackle” this problem. We are tired of the blame. 

I can't understand how much suffering you have been through because of people blaming your community for this hideous acts, because i've never been through this. But what i think they are trying to say, but not achieving it, is that even if you belong to some religion, you must criticize it and doubt it if u think that the message they are passing is wrong. 

[ItWasntLaauv 6,392]

Religion is the plague of the world.

[NichuuB 43,788]

1 minute ago, ItWasntLaauv said:

Religion is the plague of the world.

The problem is not the religion, but the religious people. Religion is a expression of culture, it's important for any society. Yeah, there are crazy and violent things in most of them, but they were written thousand of years ago, it's what we decide to do with it that create problems or solutions. Trying to defend prejudice in the 21st century is unaceptable, but to defend the good things that we have on this cultural expressions is essential, like the many catholic festival we have arround the world, the important learnings from monks, the respect for animals from hinduists, the important knowledge that were created by the islamic culture, like astronomy, chemistry algebra and so on. All of this define us as humans and must be respected.

[REALITY 80,162]

There's a lot of responses here, and I don't want to quote anyone in particular because this situation is complex and sensitive.

I will say this: I just hope that the family and friends of all of those affected can emotionally and mentally recover from this. My heart breaks for any victims and their loved ones in these types of situations.

I'll also say this: I think it's important that we not generalize an entire religion because of the action of these extremists. I just think it's important to separate those who are good Muslim people and those who are bad Muslim people. There are bad people all over the place of different races, religions, sexualities, sexes, etc. This is not a sole Muslim issue. We can talk about the awful laws they have in Islamic countries regarding women and LGBTQ people, but those revolve around those countries and their hateful rhetoric and action. Obviously they're in the wrong for treating those people that way, and that needs to be stopped, but that isn't necessarily representative of Muslims in general. Just like how there are Christian extremists, there can be extremists of any religion or group. 

I know that on this forum religion is a touchy subject, and a lot of people hate it, but we have to remember that there are nuances in the real world. The world is not black and white. Religion is not inherently good or evil. It's what an individual does with their religion that's dangerous.

[bluemonkey 639]

I mean the beheading, like we’re so over with using guns, let’s chop people’s heads instead...just when you keep thinking it won’t get any worse, it’s like we are free falling very slowly to our doom beginning with this pandemic.

[littlepotter 76,610]

26 minutes ago, lego said:

I am someone who was Christian half of her life and the other half- Muslim, by my own choice. My own country committed genocide against Muslims in the 90s and I was actually alive in that period. I remember how it started, I know what dehumanization and generalization does.  I lived through bombardment from NATO. I lived through being attacked for being Muslim in a Western country. I do know what I’m talking about, I’m not your random sjw (your favorite word) so please spare me. You have your experiences and I have mine. @KanyeWest  

If you think anyone is invalidating islamophobia, or at least me, that is not the case. It's people like you who suffer from islamophobia. You are muslim in a western country. You are a minority and you are discriminated against because you are muslim. That is islamophobia. It is also not strictly about religion but also about ethnicity - the dicrimination extends to atheist arabs or any other belief. My uncle's name is literally Jihad, but he is and his family is christian - nothing to do with islam, just an arabic name, but he would be profiled as a terrorist. Islamophobia/arabophobia is also the western belief that we are barbaric, ignorant, uneducated, etc. And it harms us because they can just send bombs our way and have their wars in our lands without them feeling bad about us dying because in they dehumanized us so our pain is not real to them.

However.

When a non religious person like me or @Pennywise complains that the enforcement of religion on our society has led to our own oppression under it, that is not islamophobic. I do not get to be islamophobic, i am not western, i cannot harm islam or muslims in any way because they are the majority and their religion is fundamentally opposed to my very existence as a gay person. I had several girl friends in beirut who personally discussed with me how afraid they were to remove their hijab because of how they will be treated by the men around them, the two who ended up doing it were bullied and shamed by everyone they knew (mind you, we are students of an AMERICAN university, one of the most liberal spaces here, so if this happened here you can imagine how much worse it is in the more conservative places) and another one was literally threatened by her father and never got to take off her hijab. We cannot be islamophobic. We are not in any position to harm islam and muslims. Does this make it clearer?

I absolutely symapthize with what you are going through, because you ARE a victim of islamophobia, you are a minority being opressed. But my initial statement still stands: if you've never lived here, you do not get to police how we feel about muslim/religious mentality in muslim majority counteies. 

[MACATL 2,125]

3 hours ago, SchwineLove said:

What we need is civility, respect, and rationalism.

We’d be a lot closer to that without religion.  

[ItWasntLaauv 6,392]

51 minutes ago, NicoB said:

The problem is not the religion, but the religious people. Religion is a expression of culture, it's important for any society. Yeah, there are crazy and violent things in most of them, but they were written thousand of years ago, it's what we decide to do with it that create problems or solutions. Trying to defend prejudice in the 21st century is unaceptable, but to defend the good things that we have on this cultural expressions is essential, like the many catholic festival we have arround the world, the important learnings from monks, the respect for animals from hinduists, the important knowledge that were created by the islamic culture, like astronomy, chemistry algebra and so on. All of this define us as humans and must be respected.

I just know that there’s anti-science, anti-LGBTQ, anti-women, and racist sh*t in a ton of books of worship that people will use to defend their damaging views. I’d think if religious people are the problem, I’d also want to hold a candle to religion to see where they’re getting their problematic views. It’s fact that most wars are fought because of religion. Science has been held back because of religion. The rhetoric that has put LGBTQ people and women at a disadvantage for thousands of years comes straight from quotes of a good chunk of books of worship. There may be some useful stuff that we can take from different religions throughout the years, but I personally think that a lot of religions (not all) are doing more damage than good. People aren’t cutting off people’s heads, throwing people off buildings, lynching people, and crashing planes into skyscrapers because they’re agnostic.

Edit: Sorry if I’m coming off harsh, but I think the world should be past the point of not looking at religion with a very critical lens. These religious sects need to be held accountable for what their books of worship preach.

[lego 44,165]

29 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

We cannot be islamophobic. We are not in any position to harm islam and muslims.

 

29 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

i am not western, i cannot harm islam or muslims

 

maybe you don’t realize but some of your words are weaponized against me, some don’t even consider me a real muslim, as you can see, because of the region of the world we live in. 

I sympathize with both of you, but if you write on international forums  things like “once they become majority it’s hell for everyone” and “1,8 billion has heads in sand ignoring this issue”, you’re giving western racists and xenophobes validation; they talk about getting rid of the “cancerous muslim problem” the same way they used to talk about Jews.

They’re afraid they’d be outnumbered and lose their freedoms in West (this is irrational and won’t happen) and they believe most of us silently support these killings and they would use statements like pennywise made earlier, to justify their hate. So some of it does harm me. If you as a minority in muslim country put blame on the all of us, for the violence, it harms me and my family, my kids. 
 

[NichuuB 43,788]

1 minute ago, ItWasntLaauv said:

I just know that there’s anti-science, anti-LGBTQ, anti-women, and racist sh*t in a ton of books of worship that people will use to defend their damaging views. I’d think if religious people are the problem, I’d also want to hold a candle to religion to see where they’re getting their problematic views. It’s fact that most wars are fought because of religion. Science has been held back because of religion. The rhetoric that has put LGBTQ people and women at a disadvantage for thousands of years comes straight from quotes of a good chunk of books of worship. There may be some useful stuff that we can take from different religions throughout the years, but I personally think that a lot of religions (not all) are doing more damage than good. People aren’t cutting off people’s heads, throwing people off buildings, lynching people, and crashing planes into skyscrapers because they’re agnostic.

I understand what you are saying, i'm not a religious person, and i know, criticize and condemn many things religion states and religious people say, but saying that religion should not exist or should be prohibited is wrong. It has its benefits, like culture as i said before, but also helps people to deal with the strugles of their lives. There are scientific studies that proved that people that believe in something heal better from diseases like cancer because the religion gives them hope. There are many philosophy books, written by agnostic philosophers, that state the importance of it. 

The many atrocius things that happened and happens because of the religion are outrageous, but as i said, this happens because of us and what we decide to do with it. The islam must evolve and see that a thing that was defended two thousand years ago should not persist nowadays, and the muslims must do something about it, cause the violent view of religion is not hurting only people from different cultures, but it's hurting them as well. 

[NichuuB 43,788]

As example of what i'm saying, that what you decide to do with religion that can makes things good or bad, i was raised in a catholic family, and my church (but not every catholic church)  don't condemn lgbt people, they assure the importance of the women, i mean, women truly are respected, and they're not placed in a place of submission to their husbands. All of this even if the bible is against this things. Most of the priests claims that we should be careful to what we read in the bible, cause it's a book written in old times with old perspectives.