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Pope Supports Same-Sex Civil Unions

littlepotter
8 minutes ago, holy scheisse said:

I am also catholic. I'm glad this affects your situation in some positive way but with all due respect, I can't take back the religious trauma I endured and don't need to celebrate anything. 

I don't understand your point..? How does our trauma relate to the fact that this may make some christians more open minded? I'm not supporting him, I'm not celebrating religion. I'm celebrating the fact that this may lead to more acceptance. That's it.

Just now, Cookie Tookie said:

You do realize the pope is nothing but an ordinary human that has been placed in a position of power? He is not a god. He does not get to alter the scripture. It’s clear in the Bible that homosexuality is an abomination. His opinion means absolutely nothing. People will just say that he is going against the word of god, which is accurate. In reality, we shouldn’t even be entertaining this nonsense and should be focusing on how corrupt religion is. Without this original scripture, we wouldn’t even be in this situation. It’s important to deconstruct the power of religion as opposed to uplifting it just because they give you a crumb. And civil unions are not marriage. We’ve had civil unions in the US for several decades before we got marriage. This is just further stating that gays shouldn’t get the same privileges as heterosexuals, they should get the alternative. 

This is just plain.. wrong? I have evidence of the contrary. As soon as the pope was elected and he made supportive comments to the gay community, the discourse in my catholic school shifted from "this is an abomination, they go to hell" to "we should love and respect them, but they should not practice their sexuality." Is this ideal? Of course not! It's still highly homophobic by human rights standards. But in a middle eastern country like mine, it made all the difference in the world to hear a religious person say that i'm not an evil creature and that i deserve respect. So yes, they do listen to what the pope says, it's their job.

Do I want religion to end? Of course! But this is simply an ideal scenario that will sadly not happen in our lifetimes.  I'm very happy for you that you live in a more liberal place where you can not worry about this, but my entire point is don't discard the things that really make a difference for us who are still in very, very oppressed communities. 

can you hear me come undone?
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holy scheisse
7 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

I don't understand your point..? How does our trauma relate to the fact that this may make some christians more open minded? I'm not supporting him, I'm not celebrating religion. I'm celebrating the fact that this may lead to more acceptance. That's it.

 

I don't want catholic acceptance and I vehemently oppose this religion and all religions on an institutional level so I have nothing to celebrate about it. That's great for others in situations where this man's words somehow change the values of the people who are discriminating against them-- but I don't need to celebrate.

And i only brought it up because you are suggesting that I put aside all of my trauma (because I'm being selfish since this doesn't "directly benefit me") to celebrate how this helps other people, and I simply can't and am not oriented to see this in that light. You invalidated my trauma by telling me I need to rejoice about this when I'm very triggered by anything to do with catholic business. That's my issue, fair enough. But that's how it relates and why I brought it up.

 

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littlepotter
7 minutes ago, holy scheisse said:

I don't want catholic acceptance and I vehemently oppose this religion and all religions on an institutional level so I have nothing to celebrate about it. That's great for others in situations where this man's words somehow change the values of the people who are discriminating against them-- but I don't need to celebrate.

I mean... that's literally my whole point. I don't know why the world "celebrate" triggered you - I'm not asking anyone to light fireworks. I was only pointing towards this acknowledgment. 

can you hear me come undone?

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holy scheisse
14 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

I mean... that's literally my whole point. I don't know why the world "celebrate" triggered you - I'm not asking anyone to light fireworks. I was only pointing towards this acknowledgment. 

"With all due respect... you have to learn to celebrate the small wins of the LGBT community as a whole and not just those that benefit you" 

Because language matters and you quoted people to tell them their emotional reaction and perspectives about this news need to be adjusted, implying they were being self-absorbed. You know nothing about those peoples experiences and that's invalidating as f*ck. I am so glad this news is huge for you, I would never tell you you shouldn't be happy about it because I am indifferent. And that is all, thanks.

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littlepotter
25 minutes ago, holy scheisse said:

"With all due respect... you have to learn to celebrate the small wins of the LGBT community as a whole and not just those that benefit you" 

Because language matters and you quoted people to tell them their emotional reaction and perspectives about this news need to be adjusted, implying they were being self-absorbed. You know nothing about those peoples experiences and that's invalidating as f*ck. I am so glad this news is huge for you, I would never tell you you shouldn't be happy about it because I am indifferent. And that is all, thanks.

Girl who even addressed you? Did I quote you? Does it look like the people I quoted were having emotional reactions? Why are you being so hostile towards me presenting my perspective? Someone said why should we care and I told him why I care. 

can you hear me come undone?

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holy scheisse
1 minute ago, littlepotter said:

Girl who even addressed you? Did I quote you? Does it look like the people I quoted were having emotional reactions? Why are you being so hostile towards me presenting my perspective? Someone said why should we care and I told him why I care. 

I really am not being hostile lol. You def are in this response. I chimed in bc if you go back you will see me interacting in agreement with the members you quoted , and so I felt like it and that's my liberty :sis: 

Also his question was obviously rhetorical, and your response was not framed in "this is why I care" it literally translates to "with all due respect you need to care and stop being selfish bc this affects me positively" which again, truly... great for you. 

Literally I'm not trying to be hostile I'm trying to have a civil convo. Like I guess you didn't intend for it to come across the way it did but it did. You can ignore me if you have issues with me responding to your posts. 

 

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littlepotter
4 minutes ago, holy scheisse said:

I really am not being hostile lol. You def are in this response. I chimed in bc if you go back you will see me interacting in agreement with the members you quoted , and so I felt like it and that's my liberty :sis: 

Also his question was obviously rhetorical, and your response was not framed in "this is why I care" it literally translates to "with all due respect you need to care and stop being selfish bc this affects me positively" which again, truly... great for you. 

Literally I'm not trying to be hostile I'm trying to have a civil convo. Like I guess you didn't intend for it to come across the way it did but it did. You can ignore me if you have issues with me responding to your posts. 

I'm all for having a civil conversation. I saw your post as hostile because even after I felt we came to an agreement that all I meant by "celebrate" is to acknowledge that this is helpful for some people, and you said it yourself, you then accused me of trying to invalidate your experience as a catholic. Why would I want to invalidate you if I was and am still going through the same thing as you? I just don't understand why such an accusation was made. You seem to be in a place in your life where you have the choice to put this behind you, which I aspire to get to. I don't see how me saying "hey, remember some of us are still fighting this battle, so this is nice and I'd appreciate some encouragement" translated into an attack on your experience as a survivor of this trauma. 

can you hear me come undone?
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The Clown
3 hours ago, Cookie Tookie said:

It’s not like I gave a f*ck about what this pope said before this statement, so this doesn’t do anything for me. I don’t need the pope who represents a corrupt institution to tell me that my life is valid. 

Our lives are valid regardless of what the pope or anybody else says.

That's not why so many people in here are celebrating, though. They are happy because the head of an extremely conservative organisation taking a somewhat LGBT-friendly position (by their historic standards) shows an important societal shift towards mainstream acceptance of homosexuality.

Coming in the dawn of a Conservative US Supreme Court, this is pretty big and shows that there's still hope we won't go back on all the progress we've made in the last decades.

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KORG

Good for him, now he can have a same sex union if he wants one. But his opinion bares no gravitas on anybody else's life.

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SKANK
14 minutes ago, KORG said:

Good for him, now he can have a same sex union if he wants one. But his opinion bares no gravitas on anybody else's life.

 

You are very wrong about his opinions having no gravitas on people’s lives.

For all the queer kids being raised in strict Catholic homes, they just got a life line. 

If the Pope can validate their sexuality and future relationships like this, that will do loads to bring their family around.

The head of a church that boasts over a billion members just validated same sex relationships, after spending hundreds of years condemning them.

You and I may not care about his opinion, but if Pope Francis comes out in support of same-sex unions, it will impact a lot of gay people’s lives in a powerful way.

 

 

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LORD GAGA

I have quite strong opinions on the ‘church’ and their ‘opinions’ on things.

 

In short... i don’t see why anyone would care what they think in this day and age? He’s just another man, followed by an older generation in support of a man in the sky... to me it’s almost ludicrous that his opinion holds any weight at all now. 

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Sepsami
4 hours ago, littlepotter said:

I don't understand your point..? How does our trauma relate to the fact that this may make some christians more open minded? I'm not supporting him, I'm not celebrating religion. I'm celebrating the fact that this may lead to more acceptance. That's it.

This is just plain.. wrong? I have evidence of the contrary. As soon as the pope was elected and he made supportive comments to the gay community, the discourse in my catholic school shifted from "this is an abomination, they go to hell" to "we should love and respect them, but they should not practice their sexuality." Is this ideal? Of course not! It's still highly homophobic by human rights standards. But in a middle eastern country like mine, it made all the difference in the world to hear a religious person say that i'm not an evil creature and that i deserve respect. So yes, they do listen to what the pope says, it's their job.

Do I want religion to end? Of course! But this is simply an ideal scenario that will sadly not happen in our lifetimes.  I'm very happy for you that you live in a more liberal place where you can not worry about this, but my entire point is don't discard the things that really make a difference for us who are still in very, very oppressed communities. 

Yes to all you said, great post :applause:

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Pharamon
21 minutes ago, LORD GAGA said:

I have quite strong opinions on the ‘church’ and their ‘opinions’ on things.

 

In short... i don’t see why anyone would care what they think in this day and age? He’s just another man, followed by an older generation in support of a man in the sky... to me it’s almost ludicrous that his opinion holds any weight at all now. 

Came here to say this!

I mean believe in whatever you want, but if you call this HUGE news then... after so many years the head of church finally decided that he's gonna respect others? It's long due and let's stop acting like it's gonna change ANYTHING, sure for many it feels comforting and gives them some hope, but like I think society is way past religion and it's bullshit and we should focus on giving the LGBT+'s ACTUAL rights instead of just resting on words with no actions. 

Again, bash me all you want for this, but it's like saying that animal cruelty is bad and then proceeding to buying fur or leather boots. It is 2020 and it IS the 21st century, can we stop acting like such small babysteps of the church mean anything? If anything they just hold the world back, because it's sad that it takes a head of church to make people realize that WE ARE IN FACT HUMAN BEINGS like anybody else. Can't really believe it is still happening but damn, it is what it is.

Focus on those which are actually doing something for our community instead of those who sometimes lift their finger and then slowly hide it down in their pockets. 

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littlepotter
1 hour ago, SKANK said:

You are very wrong about his opinions having no gravitas on people’s lives.

For all the queer kids being raised in strict Catholic homes, they just got a life line. 

If the Pope can validate their sexuality and future relationships like this, that will do loads to bring their family around.

The head of a church that boasts over a billion members just validated same sex relationships, after spending hundreds of years condemning them.

You and I may not care about his opinion, but if Pope Francis comes out in support of same-sex unions, it will impact a lot of gay people’s lives in a powerful way.

Thank you... it was truly driving me to question my sanity, how is it not clear that this is a huge step forward for the people it will affect

can you hear me come undone?
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LaLuna
46 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

Thank you... it was truly driving me to question my sanity, how is it not clear that this is a huge step forward for the people it will affect

I'm with you on this. It IS a huge step forward. I mean, it might not change religious people's minds overnight, that sh*t takes time, but the fact that the head of the Catholic church approves of same-sex unions when they've been demonized for thousands of years is definitely major progress and something to be celebrated.

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