Barack Obama - A Promised Land

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SLAG said:

Passive aggression makes not a victory.

I'm passive aggressive?

[Othon 33,208]

15 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Bush killed 200,000+ innocent civilians, while a few hundred were killed during the Obama years. Big difference. 

This is a flat out lie.

We killed people with drones, we starved people with sanctions, we killed countless people in proxy wars that we waged in multiple different nations. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries, including Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. When you account for all of this, hundreds of thousands of people (or more) died, while countless more were seriously injured or had their livelihoods stolen from them.

He killed an American citizen extrajudicially, and then had the government justify it. He set countless atrocious legal precedents that are being taken advantage of right now to decimate people abroad. The guy was not some sort of progressive on foreign policy. He helped destroy vast portions of multiple countries and killed or displaced countless innocents.

[HorusRa2 4,978]

2 minutes ago, Nino said:

There were plenty of failures of Obama's administration(resigning the patriot act, race relations, unfair trade deals, etc, etc), but causing relatively little civilian casualties does NOT a war criminal make. It's not like Obama woke up one day, threw a dart at a world map, and decided to kill innocents. America was at war and we used the best tactics available to us.

Obama and HRC are the reason why Libya has a slave market now. Obama literally ran out of bombs to use. He did ten times as many drone strikes as Bush. He invaded more countries than Bush did. That is a war criminal make. 

[lego 44,165]

6 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

If you know of a way that we can kill terrorists without civilian casualties

Karzai to Obama: Stop killing Afghan civilians; U.S. airstrike reportedly kills 37 at wedding party

 

The bombing of the remote village of Wech Baghtu in the southern province of Kandahar on Monday afternoon destroyed an Afghan housing complex where women and children had gathered to celebrate, villagers said.

Villager Abdul Jalil, a 37-year-old grape farmer whose niece was getting married, told an Associated Press reporter at the scene of the bombing that U.S. troops and Taliban fighters had been fighting about a half mile from his home.

The U.S. military said it was investigating, and a U.S. spokesman added that "if innocent people were killed in this operation, we apologize and express our condolences."

Jalil said American forces had given villagers permission to bury the dead, which he said included 23 children and 10 women.

 

 

just one example out of many. the terrorists didn’t use wedding as a shield.... 

 

the nationalist downplaying loss of these lives, should be ashamed of himself 

[littlepotter 74,291]

1 minute ago, MJHolland said:

Can we at least agree that using innocent civilians as human shields is deplorable as well? Or are we not even there yet? 

Girl are you insinuating that any of us are defending terrorists? This was never a question to begin with. And trust me terror affects our region a lot more than it affects yours. But so many of y'all fail to realize that terrorism is a direct result of America shoving its **** down our throats.

[Rock Jock 993]

Lol what is he thinking about himself?

[ALGAYDO 29,906]

Oh god.
 

Bruh there’s really members in here trying to justify the murder of thousands of innocent people? It’s all good because other presidents like Bush killed more??

 

No, Obama wasn’t the antichrist, and there were worse presidents than him, but that doesn’t excuse his failures. And he had MANY. 

[alsemanche 91,792]

1 hour ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

This is a flat out lie.

We killed people with drones, we starved people with sanctions, we killed countless people in proxy wars that we waged in seven different countries, five of which were new conflicts that Obama got us involved in. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries, including Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. When you account for all of this, hundreds of thousands of people (or more) died, while countless more were seriously injured or had their livelihoods stolen from them.

He killed an American citizen extrajudicially, and then had the government justify it. He set countless atrocious legal precedents that are being taken advantage of right now to decimate people abroad. The guy was not some sort of progressive on foreign policy. He helped destroy vast portions of multiple countries and killed or displaced countless innocents.

If only people thought about any of this. But no they only think about "defending" the US from terrorism (i have to laugh) and ignore the 500 other ways the US kills people both directly and indirectly. Guess it's easier to remain an idiot then to use whatever 2 braincells they have. 

[MJHolland 12,723]

Just now, HorusRa2 said:

I think you aren't asking yourself the important question as to why there are terrorists in the first place. 

We have military bases all over the middle east like a parasitic disease. We have been in these countries for decades. We continue to bomb these countries and have done so for decades. We have destroyed their economies through sanctions. These people just want us to leave. Instead we destroy their economies, shove our presence down their throats and kill their civilians. By accident or not, the fact is that is what we are doing. You can't expect peace when you're the one constantly being the aggressor.  

Sure, we can rewind to decisions that were made before Obama took office. 

Isn't it true that Obama took aggressive action to pull troops of the the middle east? I remember when he did this, his own generals were FURIOUS at him in the press. 

At the least, Obama pulled out nearly all troops from Iraq, but then he was solely blamed for ISIS. The current president even said he FOUNDED ISIS. 

It seems like he adopted a lose-lose situation with the middle east. Obama didn't make it a mess, but I don't think he made it worse (I know ISIS blew up, but that's largely been quelled now). Plus he made a historic peace deal to keep nukes out of Iran's hands which simply cannot be understated. 

 

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Heard. It's heartbreaking that civilians have had to die in the fight against terrorists organizations, truly.

But al Qaeda and other terrorist networks use civilians like human shields everyday. That equally as horrific and cowardly.

Nearly 90 percent of the people killed by U.S. drone strikes in Afghanistan over a five-month period were not the intended targets. The Pentagon internally admitted in 2013 that U.S. drone strikes are often carried out based on faulty intelligence. Even when drone strikes do kill the intended target, the Pentagon found, the killing may compromise more valuable intelligence-gathering operations...

Source: https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/

Edit: This is not an opinion, this is government internal memos that were meant to be private, but it got leaked by a whistle blower. 

[Nino 12]

1 minute ago, MJHolland said:

Can we at least agree that using innocent civilians as human shields is deplorable as well? Or are we not even there yet? 

No, it's a "moral dilemma" because the pseudo-intellectuals masturbate to being "unbiased" and want to justify terrorism.

2 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

We have military bases all over the middle east like a parasitic disease. We have been in these countries for decades. We continue to bomb these countries and have done so for decades. We have destroyed their economies through sanctions. These people just want us to leave. Instead we destroy their economies, shove our presence down their throats and kill their civilians. By accident or not, the fact is that is what we are doing. You can't expect peace when you're the one constantly being the aggressor.  

American bases exist in the region to protect American interest in an area of the world that has shown complete readiness to launch any type of attack possible on western lifestyles and ideology, regardless of whether it's a war crime or not. I'd rather not the unstable region with a history of religious and/or political fanaticism based terrorist sects left to its own devices without a forceful hand from America, aggressor or not trying to nip an issue in the bud is no problem at all. The real hypocrisy is how America can make allies countries with similar extreme ideologies instead of violently suppressing them too but that's off topic.

[ShtoopidLahv 710]

7 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Can we at least agree that using innocent civilians as human shields is deplorable as well? Or are we not even there yet? 

When the conversation boils down to morally equivocating Obama’s actions with Al Qaeda’s, it says a LOT about just how evil obama was 

[ALGAYDO 29,906]

1 minute ago, Nino said:

No, it's a "moral dilemma" because the pseudo-intellectuals masturbate to being "unbiased" and want to justify terrorism.

The only person justifying terrorism here is you 

[WildAmerican 13,672]

I was like "wow there sure are a lot of people talking about Obama's book" and then I started reading the thread

 

[HorusRa2 4,978]

Just now, Nino said:

American bases exist in the region to protect American interest in an area of the world that has shown complete readiness to launch any type of attack possible on western lifestyles and ideology, regardless of whether it's a war crime or not. I'd rather not the unstable region with a history of religious and/or political fanaticism based terrorist sects left to its own devices without a forceful hand from America, aggressor or not trying to nip an issue in the bud is no problem at all. The real hypocrisy is how America can make allies countries with similar extreme ideologies instead of violently suppressing them too but that's off topic.

Protecting American interest is the PG way of saying imperialism. Just say it for what it is. 

And again, when you have crushing economic sanctions, people who are starving through proxy wars, bombs falling down on your country for years, I don't see how you wouldn't expect some form of retaliation. The fact is that the American presence in the region adds to and  intensifies the instability of the region. Why is it that nothing has changed over the course of 20/30 years? Because the American Military is still there. Fact of the matter is that brunch democrats and liberals can go to the movies or watch netflix and fantasize about the US being the moral heroes of the world but we are the monsters. We are the evil. And fact is until we leave these people alone and in peace we will always have to spend money on war and forgo helping our own people. And this country will become a failed social experiment because the wealthy did not care because they have all the wealth and power in the world.