Sweden records lowest daily covid cases since march

[Bt1 5,213]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

For now, countries that (1) acted quickly with (2) a mild lockdown seem to have fared best when it comes to seeking a balance between preventing economic decline and preventing deaths. Look at neighbouring Denmark, with only a few hundred deaths, and they took an economic hit similar to Sweden. 

 

It's possible that the next months will change this picture, but that would be wildly speculative. Herd immunity is very far away. I think only some places like Manhattan may have some form of herd immunity.

I think the real question is how Sweden managed to go from one of the worst places in Europe when it come to cases /deaths per capita to one of the lowest with no lockdown, no masks, no schools closed, 50 people events permitted?

If it isnt herd immunity, what can it be? 

[Luc 4,776]

16 minutes ago, Florin said:

I think the real question is how Sweden managed to go from one of the worst places in Europe when it come to cases /deaths per capita to one of the lowest with no lockdown, no masks, no schools closed, 50 people events permitted?

If it isnt herd immunity, what can it be? 

Voluntary action  there's different ways that a government can effectuate change. One is through laws and regulations, with punishments, and the other is the more liberal way to give strong recommendations as a government, but to leave it to the people to actually follow the rules because they want to follow them, not because they'll be punished otherwise. Just because Sweden had no strict lockdown, does not mean that Swedes didn't socially isolate.

 

I'm still not saying that the liberal approach works better, though. It works in areas like promoting vegetarianism, or promoting sun protection, but it works too slowly for a pandemic. A strict rule changes behaviour quite immediately, while the approach of nudging and appealing to people's own responsibility works slowly. But perhaps the appeal to people's own responsibility has more long-lasting effects.

 

I must say though that I haven't been following news-related stuff a lot for the past months, so what I'm talking about here is mostly concerning a topic which I know quite a bit about (legitimacy/political stuff), I don't know much about herd immunity or how the virus itself works at this point. A lot of people say that Sweden got some form of herd immunity, and I suspect that that's not true, but I'm not sure because I haven't been paying much attention to covid-related articles  

[Curunir 7,510]

I'm just gonna leave these here. Some users obviously need to refer to them before saying that Sweden dealt with the virus best.

 Sweden population: 10.2 million

 Denmark population: 5.8 million

 Norway population: 5.4 million

 Finland population: 5.5 million

You do the math 

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

There is not heard immunity, yet.

Sweden is a small country that sacrificed its citizens for their economy. There is nothing to admire about that. 

Cases are going down in most places, Sweden is just another one on that list. 

 

[Curunir 7,510]

3 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Cases are going down in most places

Well, not in Western Europe 

[Morphine Prince 109,683]

2 minutes ago, Curunir said:

Well, not in Western Europe 

Oh, true. 2nd wave has started there.

Also, cases are going up in the US again, just checked the numbers after posting this

 

[Curunir 7,510]

2 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Oh, true. 2nd wave has started there.

Also, cases are going up in the US again, just checked the numbers after posting this

 

This virus is so annoying 

[Guest]

People have to understand in each country things vary. Italians are disciplined especially after being traumatized in March, in France people are not that disciplined as Italians so of course the number of cases is always more than in Italy, then theres the amount of population, the amount of tests done, the death tolls etc etc

[Bt1 5,213]

4 hours ago, Curunir said:

I'm just gonna leave these here. Some users obviously need to refer to them before saying that Sweden dealt with the virus best.

 Sweden population: 10.2 million

 Denmark population: 5.8 million

 Norway population: 5.4 million

 Finland population: 5.5 million

You do the math 

And what this proves? That I am right?

That Sweden had a lot of problems with the virus and yet they were solved with no lockdown, no masks, no schools closed? Thanks for the evidence.  

[Bt1 5,213]

3 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

There is not heard immunity, yet.

Sweden is a small country that sacrificed its citizens for their economy. There is nothing to admire about that. 

Cases are going down in most places, Sweden is just another one on that list. 

 

Check again. That's the point of this article. The cases are going up in Europe. Sweden is the exception. Just like New York is the exception in US. I wonder why. 

And stop with this "sacrifice" thing. NY, US in general has more deaths per capita than Sweden. That means NY "sacrificed" more lives, especially when it did more harming things than Sweden, like sending covid patients to nursing homes or forcing young people to return to their parents grandparents because of closing of schools. Not to mention the cost of lockdowns, which we know is more than the economy. 

[Economy 52,861]

On 9/18/2020 at 11:26 AM, Luc said:

Voluntary action  there's different ways that a government can effectuate change. One is through laws and regulations, with punishments, and the other is the more liberal way to give strong recommendations as a government, but to leave it to the people to actually follow the rules because they want to follow them, not because they'll be punished otherwise. Just because Sweden had no strict lockdown, does not mean that Swedes didn't socially isolate.

 

I'm still not saying that the liberal approach works better, though. It works in areas like promoting vegetarianism, or promoting sun protection, but it works too slowly for a pandemic. A strict rule changes behaviour quite immediately, while the approach of nudging and appealing to people's own responsibility works slowly. But perhaps the appeal to people's own responsibility has more long-lasting effects.

 

I must say though that I haven't been following news-related stuff a lot for the past months, so what I'm talking about here is mostly concerning a topic which I know quite a bit about (legitimacy/political stuff), I don't know much about herd immunity or how the virus itself works at this point. A lot of people say that Sweden got some form of herd immunity, and I suspect that that's not true, but I'm not sure because I haven't been paying much attention to covid-related articles  

It's also worth noting that Sweden has a disproportionately high number of single tenant units compared to most Nations

 

I keep bringing that up and ppl who wanna use Sweden as proof lockdowns make no difference conviniently keep ignoring that. If u get infected but live with no one else, u are not gonna take it home to a bunch of people. That's a huge thing

 

It's probably not a coincidence that my city in Ontario (Brampton) has consistently been the epicentre concentration wise in covid cases per population and we also have among the highest sized households in the Nation as it's a very family oriented suburb city plus a huge Indian population (which multi-generational households are a common cultural tradition)

 

[Bt1 5,213]

5 hours ago, Economy said:

It's also worth noting that Sweden has a disproportionately high number of single tenant units compared to most Nations

 

I keep bringing that up and ppl who wanna use Sweden as proof lockdowns make no difference conviniently keep ignoring that. If u get infected but live with no one else, u are not gonna take it home to a bunch of people. That's a huge thing

 

It's probably not a coincidence that my city in Ontario (Brampton) has consistently been the epicentre concentration wise in covid cases per population and we also have among the highest sized households in the Nation as it's a very family oriented suburb city plus a huge Indian population (which multi-generational households are a common cultural tradition)

 

Yea, there are other factors for every country. Did u noticed that I keep mentioning that Sweden had a holiday during the spread of covid that put it in another place than its neighbours? What people do with this information? They ignore it. Like they ignore the deaths per capita numbers or other factors like their migrant population, the difference in nursing homes. 

And I'm looking at your example in your region. Does it make any sense that so many countries closed educational institutions and through lockdowns forced young asymptomatic people to return to their elderly? 

And the most important question regarding Sweden is how they solved their problems with no lockdown, no masks, 50 - 500 people events permitted, no schools closed? We like to pretend that Sweden is some super special country with people that interact like aliens but no. Even if they have more single tenants units than usual, they have the same public transportation, the same stores, malls, businesses. People dont get an haircut in a separate room than the hairdresser. People interact with other people the same way every human on Earth does it and somehow they had the virus and now the number of cases / deaths is one of the lowest in Europe. 

This should raise a lot of questions, but people ignore it or downplayed it, which is sad.

[Queen Bitch 10,513]

Meanwhile in Denmark with all the restrictions, mandatory face masks etc. cases are going up

[Economy 52,861]

6 hours ago, Florin said:

Yea, there are other factors for every country. Did u noticed that I keep mentioning that Sweden had a holiday during the spread of covid that put it in another place than its neighbours? What people do with this information? They ignore it. Like they ignore the deaths per capita numbers or other factors like their migrant population, the difference in nursing homes. 

And I'm looking at your example in your region. Does it make any sense that so many countries closed educational institutions and through lockdowns forced young asymptomatic people to return to their elderly? 

And the most important question regarding Sweden is how they solved their problems with no lockdown, no masks, 50 - 500 people events permitted, no schools closed? We like to pretend that Sweden is some super special country with people that interact like aliens but no. Even if they have more single tenants units than usual, they have the same public transportation, the same stores, malls, businesses. People dont get an haircut in a separate room than the hairdresser. People interact with other people the same way every human on Earth does it and somehow they had the virus and now the number of cases / deaths is one of the lowest in Europe. 

This should raise a lot of questions, but people ignore it or downplayed it, which is sad.

Yes it makes sense because there's was still way more people without the virus than with it as far as we could tell so even if a few spread it to their elderly it would be worse if they kept spreading it among eachother and make numbers grow and ultimately would make it to more elderly in one way or another anyway

 

And also how many elderly do youth live with anyway? Most kids in college or uni have parents in their 50s maybe 60. Unless they live with grandparents in most cases were not talking about them staying with relatives in the very high risk group yet

 

100 infected youths spending more time at home and increasing risk of infection among family but then trying to contain it within the household with a lockdown is still better than that 100 exploding to 10,000 in no time

 

And just for the record I don't totally disagree with u. As I've stated many times before I don't think lockdowns are the answer long term anyway and should only be used for short periods to control spikes as they come. I never agreed with lockdowns that last for months on end

 

I was simply pointing out that Countries circumstances vary and that just because Sweden managed it that is not proof others would have as well

 

[Bt1 5,213]

1 hour ago, Economy said:

Yes it makes sense because there's was still way more people without the virus than with it as far as we could tell so even if a few spread it to their elderly it would be worse if they kept spreading it among eachother and make numbers grow and ultimately would make it to more elderly in one way or another anyway

 

And also how many elderly do youth live with anyway? Most kids in college or uni have parents in their 50s maybe 60. Unless they live with grandparents in most cases were not talking about them staying with relatives in the very high risk group yet

 

100 infected youths spending more time at home and increasing risk of infection among family but then trying to contain it within the household with a lockdown is still better than that 100 exploding to 10,000 in no time

 

And just for the record I don't totally disagree with u. As I've stated many times before I don't think lockdowns are the answer long term anyway and should only be used for short periods to control spikes as they come. I never agreed with lockdowns that last for months on end

 

I was simply pointing out that Countries circumstances vary and that just because Sweden managed it that is not proof others would have as well

 

I agree that not every country could have managed it like Sweden, but Sweden situation should make us ask the hard questions, which we dont. 

Your 100 young people at home example is bad, in my opinion. Those 100 people maybe have already had the maximum reach in that place. And with some good measures, future spread could have been minimum. And yet, they were send in a new place to spread the virus also there. This is particularly bad, because we know that hospitalizations for this age group is almost non existent, while the hospitalizations in the age group of their parents / grandparents is high or very high.