How Rihanna didn't tire the public?

[raragaga 8,069]

1 hour ago, BadGurlMadge said:

Wtf? How is any song by her up until Unapologetic mumble

wer wer wer wer wer asimisami der der der der der

[janetjackson 200]

She was always a bit of an underdog. She entered the music scene with a lot of promise but still very underdeveloped artistically. We got to see her blossom as an artist in front of our eyes. 

In a way, her trajectory was similar to Ariana. It took a few album eras before we really got a taste of what she was made of: Dangerous Woman and Good Girl Gone Bad. 

She also seems to have good intuition and had a personality that’s easy to relate to.

Gaga, on the other hand, rose to the top faster than any artist I can think of. That ascent, coupled with her grandiose image and personality made her more of an unavoidable, love-her-or-hate-her phenomenon. 

That’s my take.

[MilkyWeigh 68]

53 minutes ago, raragaga said:

wer wer wer wer wer asimisami der der der der der

Jamaican Patois is a dialect it’s not “mumbling” 

[StrawberryBlond 13,425]

2 hours ago, Indyl said:

I really have to disagree with the whole "black is cool" thing – so fundamentally wrong. Black artists have always been subject to discrimination and standards that white artists aren't. The first Black recording artist in the United States didn't show up until about 100 years ago – Black Americans have been here for over 400 years. While artists like Elvis and The Beatles were dominating, black artists were pushed to the fringes.

Black artists created jazz, which was immediately co-opted by white Americans.

Black artists created house music, which was immediately co-opted by white Americans.

Black artists created rap and hip hop music, has been co-opted by white Americans.

Black American artists have also birthed gospel, funk, the blues, R&B. So, given Black influence on American music, yes, "black" is cool... given that virtually every major artist nowadays has operated in a black-created genre. And that's fine. Anybody should be able to create the kind of music they want (I want to emphasize that) – but over the last 5 years, with the advent of streaming, Black artists have been able to PROPERLY take their place at the forefront of American music.

For every Janet Jackson, Miles Davis, Tina Turner, Tupac, and 50 Cent, you had 5 other white artists that were abundantly more popular in the American psyche.

So, no, it's not that "being black is cool" – it is EXHAUSTING to live in this country as a black person, let alone make it as a bona fide star that white America will respect. What's happened is that Black talent, ingenuity, and innovation is showing up in the charts nowadays more than ever – why? Because the charts are now reflecting what people ACTUALLY want to listen to, versus artificially constructed radio-charts where white American serves as the gatekeeper to what can or can't become popular. I'm not saying Black artists have never been popular – of course they have.

The difference now is that art forms like hip hop and rap aren't relegated to the fringes of American society. Instead of maybe 1 hip hop hit (IF that) per year, we're seeing rap songs take over the charts. This would NOT have happened without streaming, which has democratized the charts.

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What are you talking about? I don't know what your age is, but I'm a 20 year old college student and the thirst for Rihanna among people my age is palpable.

It doesn't matter how many "flop singles" Rihanna has. 7 out of 8 studio albums she's released has yielded a #1 single – and the one that didn't still had a #2 single. She also releases at LEAST 5 singles per album, so of course there are going to be songs that under-perform.

Also, your whole "she's too old" thing is laughable. The woman is *32*. And frankly, her age doesn't matter. Enough with the "Women in pop have an expiration date" argument. Rihanna has also made a notable shift into trap-influenced music recently, so I have no doubt that the GP will be here for that.

I also don't know where you're getting that "8 years since her last release" number – Anti came out in 2016, a little less than 4 years ago lmao.

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Considering you already said, "I refuse to accept otherwise when the facts are in front of me," (which, frankly, is an incredibly nearsighted and subtly racist comment in itself, but I digress), I don't expect you to actually try to understand this post. But please, give it a shot. "Being black" is NOT cool, and hip hop still faces unbelievable discrimination in the music industry even today (look at how people talk about it and Black artists just on this forum...).

But you're bringing up how it used to be for black artists. 2020 is a very different time and its not even a recent change. Black music dominated in the 00's as well, pop took over for the 2010's but then it made a comeback to become the dominant force again. The idea of black artists struggling to get record deals or get noticed simply doesn't apply anymore. Black artists are big business and labels know that. Rap albums are some of the biggest sellers, always have been and rap and trap sounds get massive streams, so of course black artists will be supported when they pull in money. And they've always been marketed as cool, which is helpful when they're aimed at the youth demographic. Black artists get big sales, #1 singles and albums, sold out tours, critical acclaim and awards. They've been mainstream and accepted for a long time.

I'm 30 and Rihanna started out when I was 15, so I grew up with the generation that she was aimed at. She was a big deal with my demographic up until recently so I can't imagine why future generations would be interested in a woman in her 30's. Just because your specific social group wants her back, doesn't mean everyone your age does. And of course it's sexist that women struggle in the industry when they hit 30 but it's the truth, whether you like it or not. 32 is old in the industry when you're a woman competing in the charts. I'm so glad that Gaga was able to get 2 #1's in her 30's as its very rare for women to achieve that. Even if she applies herself to current trends, will the GP be here for a 32 year old woman doing it? Older women have tried and failed to appeal to current trends over the years, just ask Madonna. And I didn't say it was 8 years since her last release, I said she's released one album within the last 8 years. Anti took a lot of stops and starts to begin and wasn't released until just over 3 years after 2012's Unapologetic and she hasn't released anything since Anti's release date in January 2016. It feels like she's been away for eons but not in a "we miss you" way, in a "we've moved on from you" way.

My statement about refusing to argue with the facts that are in front of me is in reference to me being an amateur album reviewer since 2011. I review as many albums as I can per year, across all genres, from all artists, even ones I don't like. I look at the critic reviews for each album too and that allows me to notice trends. I've noticed that black artists, from the good to the mediocre to the awful seem to get consistently good album reviews, with very rare exceptions, even for albums that didn't go down well with the public. Be contrast, white artists are dealt with a lot more harsher and have a much higher standard applied. It's beyond me why mumble rap with bad rhymes and bad flow, for example, gets good reviews when it goes against everything a music reviewer should like but an album filled with well-written lyrics performed clearly is a lot more mixed. I don't expect non-album reviewers to be aware of this, but do your research and you'll see it. I can't buy into the concept that black artists are getting treated unfairly when there's recorded facts of them getting better critical and public reception than white artists.

I understand your post perfectly but I'm talking about the industry today, not the past and I didn't say that being a black person was easy or everyone looks at them as cool. But it is a stereotype that prevails and even discriminated people have positive stereotypes that provide them with an advantage. For black people, it's the stereotype of being cool and being naturally adept at rap. These two things will be of great benefit to a black person looking for a start in the music industry as a rapper, as opposed to a white person aiming for the same thing, who is stereotyped as the exact opposite. I once saw a great quote from a member here in relation to this theory: "Tall men are generally more advantaged than short men...but not when it comes to being a jockey!"

[Teletubby 120,594]

Since the beginning she was directed by label, they chose her songs, music styles, clothes, hairdo, everything. I'm not even sure when we saw real Rihanna for the first time maybe after Talk That Talk .... Her label put a lot of money in her promotion so will do anything to keep her a the top, will give her best songwriters, producers and promote her.

[Thomas P 18,380]

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm 30 and Rihanna started out when I was 15, so I grew up with the generation that she was aimed at. She was a big deal with my demographic up until recently so I can't imagine why future generations would be interested in a woman in her 30's. Just because your specific social group wants her back, doesn't mean everyone your age does.

I’m 19, and I literally don’t know a person my age or younger who isn’t excited for more Rihanna music. Gaga Music? They could care less. Taylor Music? Only half of them care. Beyonce Music? Same thing. 
 

Rihanna music though? They’re more excited for it than Billie or Ariana. This isn’t just people in my social group either, it’s literally every younger person I know. Her return it gonna be HUGE with the younger demographic, and quite frankly I feel like she still has enough fans over 30 that it’ll be pretty big with them as well. Rihanna isn’t a typical female artist with this expiration date you keep talking about, she’s still seen as one of the coolest mainstream artists working today. 

[Thomas P 18,380]

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It's beyond me why mumble rap with bad rhymes and bad flow, for example, gets good reviews when it goes against everything a music reviewer should like but an album filled with well-written lyrics performed clearly is a lot more mixed.

Who says it goes against what critics should like though? People are entitled to have the opinions they have on music. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it doesn’t deserve critical acclaim. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,425]

3 hours ago, Thomas P said:

I’m 19, and I literally don’t know a person my age or younger who isn’t excited for more Rihanna music. Gaga Music? They could care less. Taylor Music? Only half of them care. Beyonce Music? Same thing. 
 

Rihanna music though? They’re more excited for it than Billie or Ariana. This isn’t just people in my social group either, it’s literally every younger person I know. Her return it gonna be HUGE with the younger demographic, and quite frankly I feel like she still has enough fans over 30 that it’ll be pretty big with them as well. Rihanna isn’t a typical female artist with this expiration date you keep talking about, she’s still seen as one of the coolest mainstream artists working today. 

Whatever, we'll see what happens. I think she's definitely got an expiration date because of how she was marketed from the beginning. If your whole deal is that you're young, cool and hot, those things won't last forever. very few artists survive on that image once they reach their 30's and we haven't seen what Rihanna can do in that age bracket yet. Her features with NERD and PARTYNEXTDOOR didn't do anything so it doesn't bode well for her name recognition in music. Her hit with DJ Khaled might have been the last time she had success as part of a feature. People want Rihanna's make up but will they want her music? I feel like she's made so many promises that keep getting broken that it's annoying people at this point. I mean, one of her people said in December 2018 that her album was coming in 2019. It's now August 2020 and no sign of as much as a lead single. People will get over that.

3 hours ago, Thomas P said:

Who says it goes against what critics should like though? People are entitled to have the opinions they have on music. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t mean it doesn’t deserve critical acclaim. 

Because music critics study the art of music and what makes a good song, they're audio officionados. They should know instinctively what makes a song good or bad based on certain factors. How come I can do that as an amateur but these people with a degree can't? It's also very rare for everyone to like or dislike an album to the same extent, so the fact that all critics reviews are roughly the same is very suspicious. Paid-for reviews still happen, you realise. It's especially evident for albums where even the public call them childish, basic or awful but the critics seem to quite like them. That's a bad, bad sign that there were some under the table dealings if even the public, who aren't versed in good music, can detect it's bad but a professional critic can't.

[God Control 2,181]

Rihanna maintained this weird but also very high standard quality of visual presentation mixed with good and also GP-friendly music. Her art was weird enough to stand out but also mainstream enough to be relatable and the way she picked her collaborators and the type of songs that match her voice and style worked so well plus the visuals that were well perfected that it was all one amazing package.

Gotta admit, Rihanna’s not my thing at all but she knows what she’s doing and I wish Gaga did the same. Gaga was so huge during TFM and even bigger during BTW, but she was also overexposed and marketed herself as the artist of the gay teens (nothing wrong with that demographic) and the also misfits and most of the GP couldn’t relate to that. She was weird but her weirdness during BTW was too much like a non-cohesive mixture than something like Rihanna or Björk.

The public started seeing her as the singer of gay teens and misfits and looked down on her art as something for children or something cheap or something “stolen” from past singers and hence they couldn’t take her seriously, add to that the turbulent nature of ARTPOP and her past 3 tours and the change of genre with Joanne. She sorta became defined by the weirdness and sadly that weirdness was getting weaker and more repetitive, not new and more original all while Gaga’s music can’t decide whether they’re mainstream bubblegum pop or experimental and that’s how she kinda lost the novelty and momentum.

Gaga is amazing and she won and Oscar and did great with ASIB, but it feels like she needs a major reinvention to have a “rare” presence and also this perfectionist and high standard for her upcoming visual works, not to mention the right marketing. Rihanna got that status and she disappeared to do other ventures and her rarity matched with the great respect and excitement around her worked so well. If Gaga disappears as long as she did, she’ll be forgotten but she needs something huge and so unique and then she’s be able to “shock” with the next but thing releasing it at her own pace.