Why does cohesion matter?

[joannesrats 26]

So it all depends. With Chromatica the cohesion is in the sound, not the content of the songs. As with The Fame, the sound is different throughout (for the most part) but the content is all similar. But with ARTPOP and BTW, not only does the sound differ, but some of the songs don't even sound like they're off of the same album. The Queen and Electric Chapel do not sound like they are off of the same album as Judas and BTW. Same issue for Applause and Dope. While I do like variance, if you are going to release a body of work, which is what an album is, it has to make sense as a body of work - not just 12-15 songs you like put together. 

[Doot 2]

Eh, it depends. 

Cohesion is important in regards to an albums theme and messaging. But not all songs have to sound the same. 

Confessions On A Dance Floor is an extremely cohesive album but every track sounds different. 

Too much cohesion means it sounds like you were listening to one giant song. I felt that with the second half of Folklore. 

[whore 11,447]

[redacted]

[tomsches 17,475]

Would you watch a movie that's a horror movie for the first 10 minutes, then suddenly becomes a historical drama, then suddenly turns into a science fiction comedy and ends up as a cartoon?

 

[REALITY 77,938]

Well, it depends on the artist and their intentions with the album. Personally, I like it when albums are cohesive, but add a little variety between each of the songs. To me, Chromatica is a perfect example of that: it's probably her most cohesive album, yet each of the songs sound distinct enough as to not feel like all the songs sound the same. For example, even though I loooove Future Nostalgia, one of the criticisms I have with it is that it's a little too cohesive of an album. Upon my first listen, I legitimately couldn't tell you which songs were which. They all sounded pretty much the same.

Also, just a little thing I have to disagree with: Born This Way is also one of her most cohesive albums. 

Back on topic though, again, I think whether an album is "cohesive" or not is dependent upon what the artist wants. ARTPOP, for example, is an album that is understandably not cohesive at all. "My ARTPOP could mean anything," "I'm every icon," etc. are all sayings that tell me that Gaga herself didn't necessarily care that ARTPOP wasn't a cohesive album. I think the diversity of ARTPOP helps to emphasize the point of the album and its message.

With Chromatica, I think cohesion was a huge selling point of why she wanted to make the album. She wanted it to be a electronic/dance album full of bangers. And that's what she accomplished. 

As a side note, when I think of an album's "cohesiveness," I always go to how the album sounds. I never think of it as "lyrical cohesion," because let's be real, I think there's only so many songs about a certain topic that you can put on the album without sounding reductive (actually, that's another criticism I have about Future Nostalgia). 

[joannesrats 26]

9 minutes ago, Doot said:

Too much cohesion means it sounds like you were listening to one giant song. I felt that with the second half of Folklore. 

This! My mom listened to it after I did and literally texted me that every song sounded the same and that she skipped most of them after the first chorus. Folklore is one of the most boring albums i've ever heard. 

[tomsches 17,475]

2 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

As a side note, when I think of an album's "cohesiveness," I always go to how the album sounds. I never think of it as "lyrical cohesion," because let's be real, I think there's only so many songs about a certain topic that you can put on the album without sounding reductive (actually, that's another criticism I have about Future Nostalgia). 

Listen to Kate Bush's "The Ninth Wave", every song is about a different aspect of death,

"An Endless Sky of Honey", every song describes a different moment of a summer day.

Björk's "Vulnicura" where every song describes a different aspect of a break up

Bat For Lashes "The Bride", the story of a bride whose husband dies on his way to the wedding

Like, it's actually very common

[Roboboy 3,800]

because you have to be able to tell one album from the next. an album needs to have an identity, sure it can vary, but it needs to have a singular core idea otherwise it feels aimless to me

[socotra 3,356]

8 minutes ago, tomsches said:

Would you watch a movie that's a horror movie for the first 10 minutes, then suddenly becomes a historical drama, then suddenly turns into a science fiction comedy and ends up as a cartoon?

 

 

22 minutes ago, NFRockwell said:

I think the lack of cohesion on ARTPOP makes sense given the meaning of the album “could mean anything”. But it’s one thing to be open about the lack of cohesion and another to try to hide it and force a narrative on a body of work that just makes no sense. I think albums without cohesion shouldn't be written out, but I’m more of a fan of cohesion since it allows the artist to truly develop a theme and relationship with a sound. Sort of like acting for example. Take Gaga in AHS Hotel, and compare her acting from the first episode to the last. There’s a huge improvement there, and we really see the countess develop. Now imagine if every episode she played a different character. Then the countess would’ve never really taken off, and we’d be left with only the first episode and no development there.

 

i feel like the movie comparison isn't fair. a music album just isn't the same thing as a movie – if you go to watch a horror movie, that's 1.5-2.5 hours of a single genre that you can reliably expect will tell you an A-B-C story (and of course lots of directors/writers twist this formula to make it more interesting with plot devices like flashbacks, flashforwards, non-linear chronology, etc.).

but i don't think you can really compare an album that dips its toes in a bunch of different genres to a movie that abruptly switches genres. Some movies do do this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Cloverfield_Lane) but almost always as a plot twist, or as a plot device that makes sense.

for example, ARTPOP is still fundamentally a pop album. I don't think you can call it anything else while still fully encapsulating the soul of the album. But there are certainly a bunch of other elements in there.

For example, Get Out is a horror movie (or is a thriller? https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3543862/jordan-peele-feels-get-social-thriller-says-us-full-horror-movie/), but it also is fundamentally about race relations, it features romantic elements, but it's also pretty funny.

i don't really think the two are comparable.

[tomsches 17,475]

2 minutes ago, Indyl said:

 

 

i feel like the movie comparison isn't fair. a music album just isn't the same thing as a movie – if you go to watch a horror movie, that's 1.5-2.5 hours of a single genre that you can reliably expect will tell you an A-B-C story (and of course lots of directors/writers twist this formula to make it more interesting with plot devices like flashbacks, flashforwards, non-linear chronology, etc.).

but i don't think you can really compare an album that dips its toes in a bunch of different genres to a movie that abruptly switches genres. Some movies do do this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Cloverfield_Lane) but almost always as a plot twist, or as a plot device that makes sense.

for example, ARTPOP is still fundamentally a pop album. I don't think you can call it anything else while still fully encapsulating the soul of the album. But there are certainly a bunch of other elements in there.

For example, Get Out is a horror movie (or is a thriller? https://bloody-disgusting.com/movie/3543862/jordan-peele-feels-get-social-thriller-says-us-full-horror-movie/), but it also is fundamentally about race relations, it features romantic elements, but it's also pretty funny.

i don't really think the two are comparable.

I think it's a perfectly fair comparison. I'm not saying it's not possible to make such a movie/album. If anyone manages to combine all the genres that I mentioned into one movie, be it as a plot twist/plot device or not, kudos to them. That would be a great example of an experimental movie (or album if we relate it back to music). But if it's done randomly without purpose or thought behind it, it's not cohesive and just not good. Same goes with albums. If you manage to make an album that effortlessly and purposefully combines hip-hop, techno, country and spoken word, amazing! But if it's a random collection of songs in random genres it's a thoughtless, soulless collection of songs and not a cohesive work of art. 

[Chris Thomason 966]

Imo it doesn't matter at all, most people are going to play the songs off the album on a shuffled playlist anyway. Give me a variety of bops and I'm happy. Don't make me listen to slight variations of the same song for an hour

[AVeryGagaHolyDick 27,214]

THIIIIIS

I don't think Chromatica is THAT cohesive, just monotonous in a way. To me Born This Way is her most cohesive even though barely anyone will agree with that

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Indyl said:

WHY does an album have to be considered cohesive in order to be considered good?

Cohesion just means u don't go off topic. But to me it doesnt matter, if each song was its own vibe and universe and it was well done id like it much more. But not many can do that

[tomsches 17,475]

4 minutes ago, Chris Thomason said:

Imo it doesn't matter at all, most people are going to play the songs off the album on a shuffled playlist anyway. Give me a variety of bops and I'm happy. Don't make me listen to slight variations of the same song for an hour

And imo this is the exact problem of the music industry nowadays. If you want to listen to a variety of bops or a shuffled playlist, fine. You have every right to do so, but that's not the point of an album if you take music seriously as an art form.  Like, if music was just about that, a singer could just release song after song after song. Why would they go through the troubles of putting them on an album? Imo it's also the reason for the ever decreasing quality of pop music and streaming is to blame for this to a large extent, because it motivates people to only listen to random songs and shuffled playlists instead of sitting down for an hour and listening to what the artist actually tried to say with an album.  

[Doot 2]

43 minutes ago, joannesrats said:

This! My mom listened to it after I did and literally texted me that every song sounded the same and that she skipped most of them after the first chorus. Folklore is one of the most boring albums i've ever heard. 

I liked the first half but the second half I was...