Columbus statues coming down everywhere

[vyniildisk 12,689]

 

What a moment to be alive yaaaas!!! This is a celebratioooon!! 

[papergangster 2,823]

As a Native American, good riddance!

[Chromatica Island 8,517]

He wasn't important anyways, good riddance! these things belong in history books and museums not as statues to be glorified, its not erasing history, its progressing from our mistakes!

[Werk 13,166]

On 6/10/2020 at 1:40 PM, KNJ said:

 

@Little Fighter Is the first part of this video similar to what you said about learning the other day?

[Babel 41,640]

I think we should stop idolizing figures from the past altogether and focus on their achievements. Everyone was problematic to a certain degree.

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

SET ME FREE!!! 

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Werk said:

@Little Fighter Is the first part of this video similar to what you said about learning the other day?

Yes, it was very similar to what was shown in the video. Our textbooks are more on the progressive side compared to how they used to be. Some parts still sympathized with the south, but to a lesser degree. The way my teachers spoke about the south was nearly word for word what the daughters of the confederacy taught. I am sure many of them, or their parents, were brought up in the children of the confederacy program. Most of my teachers would say the textbooks were too politically correct, which became a way for them to criticize the historical accuracy while teaching their version of history. Every teacher I had told us the south never fought over slavery. It was always about states rights. If you questioned them you were brainwashed by the north, not a real American, unpatriotic, or a disgrace to your heritage. 

[KNJ 4,313]

2 hours ago, Little Fighter said:

Yes, it was very similar to what was shown in the video. Our textbooks are more on the progressive side compared to how they used to be. Some parts still sympathized with the south, but to a lesser degree. The way my teachers spoke about the south was nearly word for word what the daughters of the confederacy taught. I am sure many of them, or their parents, were brought up in the children of the confederacy program. Most of my teachers would say the textbooks were too politically correct, which became a way for them to criticize the historical accuracy while teaching their version of history. Every teacher I had told us the south never fought over slavery. It was always about states rights. If you questioned them you were brainwashed by the north, not a real American, unpatriotic, or a disgrace to your heritage. 

US textbooks are such a sham. Remember reading that because the major publishers (McGraw-Hill  etc) are published in Texas, and so are only required to adhere to that states' curriculum requirements? 

It used to piss me off that year after year teachers would skip, skim or teach from handouts,  entire units/eras from my history textbooks. We would literally read one page then go off book or move on entirely. They always said we didn't have enough time to cover it. That was aggravating in itself, but as I get older I realized that may have also been a workaround the effed up agendas in the books.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, KNJ said:

US textbooks are such a sham. Remember reading that because the major publishers (McGraw-Hill  etc) are published in Texas, and so are only required to adhere to that states' curriculum requirements? 

It used to piss me off that year after year teachers would skip, skim or teach from handouts,  entire units/eras from my history textbooks. They always said we didn't have enough time to cover it. That was aggravating in itself, but as I get older I realized that may have also been a workaround the effed up agendas in the books.

One of my last classes in school was world history. Do you know what we studied? The same things we studied the rest of the school year, American and European history. We touched very briefly on China, ancient Greece and Rome, but the majority was about America and Europe. We had a big textbook full of information about other countries, but we skipped them because there wasn't enough time. Our whole school system is based around relearning the same few things every year. There is no real education here. I am thankful to be a history nerd. I learned so much more when I had to be home schooled. 

[KNJ 4,313]

1 hour ago, Little Fighter said:

One of my last classes in school was world history. Do you know what we studied? The same things we studied the rest of the school year, American and European history. We touched very briefly on China, ancient Greece and Rome, but the majority was about America and Europe. We had a big textbook full of information about other countries, but we skipped them because there wasn't enough time. Our whole school system is based around relearning the same few things every year. There is no real education here. I am thankful to be a history nerd. I learned so much more when I had to be home schooled. 

Yeah, I was watching a Jane Elliot interview ( she's been brought up a lot since George Floyd and on ggd) and she first did her experiment in a grade school class. She said teachers teach what the parents say to teach them: the taxes pay teachers salary, the parents pay the taxes. So basically content of the classroom is tailored to parent comfort  not what all children should know. We're not talking about the full depravity of slavery (anymore), nor teaching proper sexual health, nor that Columbus wasn't a hero, nor that Thanskgiving is a load of sh!t, nor the depravity of what we did to the indigenous peoples nor the fact that the lives of the people these Europeans came across, may not have been "bettered". And we will kick the ball on the 20th century atrocities to your high school and pray someone there is brave enough to even go NEAR Vietnam. And if you make it into higher education, congrats! You now have the honor of spending thousands being un-taught all the lies adults told you to keep the convo from getting awkward 

[KNJ 4,313]

2 hours ago, KNJ said:

US textbooks are such a sham. Remember reading that because the major publishers (McGraw-Hill  etc) are published in Texas, and so are only required to adhere to that states' curriculum requirements? 

It used to piss me off that year after year teachers would skip, skim or teach from handouts,  entire units/eras from my history textbooks. We would literally read one page then go off book or move on entirely. They always said we didn't have enough time to cover it. That was aggravating in itself, but as I get older I realized that may have also been a workaround the effed up agendas in the books.

I think this was the article. It's worse: separate edits for different markets/states.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/12/us/texas-vs-california-history-textbooks.html

[Werk 13,166]

On 6/10/2020 at 3:23 PM, Monster647 said:

My comment wasn't about celebrating Columbus or not, it was about inaccuracy of that Columbus video shared that portrayed Columbus as an incompetent man who was nothing but vicious and lucky. While in reality, Columbus was a very competent navigator who discovered a new land mass that provided valuable food security and wealth to Europe that contributed to societal developments that led to Renaissance, Enlightenment, and Industrialization which are the reasons why you as an individual can express your thoughts today through internet on devices while having access to stuff like public education, healthcare etc. 

Obviously people found their way to the Americas before Columbus but Columbus is the person who discovered America in the historical continuity of modern narrative. You as a person know that Americas exist because Columbus reached it, not because Norse Vikings reached Labrador in the past, or some primitive tribes crossed the bering strait millenias ago which contributed nothing to the place of the continent in modern life or understanding (ie Columbian Exchange).

Now you can argue that Columbus was a cruel man, or his discoveries leading to decimation of native americans outweighed against the contributions of columbian exchange etc etc. That's a different argument that I said nothing about. 

Just to make sure my comprehension is right, was the video still right that he didn't reach the US and only the other countries within the Americas? And you're saying it was because of his discovery of the Americas that helped got us to today? So does that mean that he still technically is important to our history?

[Monster647 445]

18 hours ago, Werk said:

Just to make sure my comprehension is right, was the video still right that he didn't reach the US and only the other countries within the Americas? And you're saying it was because of his discovery of the Americas that helped got us to today? So does that mean that he still technically is important to our history?

The video is right that Columbus never set foot on United States of America's mainland. But it's appalling to me that video presents the situation as if when people say "Columbus discovered America", they meant United States mainland but not the continent. Premise is incorrect. How can you freaking discover a country that didn't exist anyways ? 

I haven't presented an argument about whether US should celebrate Columbus or not. Except very few cases in history, it's rarely an objective decision to choose whom to celebrate. I couldn't care less whether US chooses to celebrate Columbus or not. 

But yes, I say that discovery and colonization of Americas contributed to age of enlightenment greatly. And enlightenment is considered to be era where core principles of the modern western society emerged. And those core principles are why we now think science and reason are above dogmas of religion, those core principles are why we think an individual has their own rights - not only responsibilities towards a greater society... Without Enlightenment, there are no human rights, no non-mercantilist liberal market economy, no technological developments we have today...

[Werk 13,166]

1 hour ago, Monster647 said:

The video is right that Columbus never set foot on United States of America's mainland. But it's appalling to me that video presents the situation as if when people say "Columbus discovered America", they meant United States mainland but not the continent. Premise is incorrect. How can you freaking discover a country that didn't exist anyways ? 

I haven't presented an argument about whether US should celebrate Columbus or not. Except very few cases in history, it's rarely an objective decision to choose whom to celebrate. I couldn't care less whether US chooses to celebrate Columbus or not. 

But yes, I say that discovery and colonization of Americas contributed to age of enlightenment greatly. And enlightenment is considered to be era where core principles of the modern western society emerged. And those core principles are why we now think science and reason are above dogmas of religion, those core principles are why we think an individual has their own rights - not only responsibilities towards a greater society... Without Enlightenment, there are no human rights, no non-mercantilist liberal market economy, no technological developments we have today...

Thank you and sorry to ask again but also do you know how the mainland US came to be then like was Columbus still involved in it in the end? 

[Monster647 445]

5 minutes ago, Werk said:

Thank you and sorry to ask again but also do you know how the mainland US came to be then like was Columbus still involved in it in the end? 

No, first settlement in Atlantic Seaboard was Jamestown, Virginia by British in 1607. By that time, Columbus was long dead. I guess that can be considered as the first step in creation of what United States is today.

I am specifically talking about Atlantic Seaboard because the part of British America that banded together and declared independence from Britain (which became United States of America) was Britain's Thirteen Colonies in Atlantic Seaboard.