J.K. Rowling defends speaking out on trans issues

[derpmonster 22,412]

Just now, God Control said:

She clearly means “born female”. Let’s not turn this into a linguistics debate to escape form presenting a valid argument.

Oh please. The linguistic issue is at the core of this debate when people won't stop conflating sex and gender. She's equivocating woman with female when they are not the same and she knows what she's doing.

[Electric Mary 1,051]

3 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

you're confusing gender expression with gender identity. They can be different. 

you can call yourself whatever you want (non binary, gender z, gender 132-20 ) whatever that's not my point, my point is when you start making people call you "they", trying to change the system when you're still a man with a different name just because you're more fem or both or wtv

you can be the most fem guy in the world, I dont give a single ****, but if you're a man, you're a he, simple, I feel people try to complicate things that aren't that complex tbh (attention seeking, boredom? idk ) 

we didn't spend years trying to erase norms of gender (to allow men to express themselves in every way they want) so that some people come and start saying people like that are a different gender, that's not the way

[God Control 2,181]

Just now, derpmonster said:

you're confusing gender expression with gender identity. They can be different. 

So you’re saying a man who looks like a typical manly man, who says they identify as a woman, is 100% without a shred of doubt legitimate?

[derpmonster 22,412]

She's literally projecting.

"The writings of young trans men reveal a group of notably sensitive and clever people.  The more of their accounts of gender dysphoria I’ve read, with their insightful descriptions of anxiety, dissociation, eating disorders, self-harm and self-hatred, the more I’ve wondered whether, if I’d been born 30 years later, I too might have tried to transition. The allure of escaping womanhood would have been huge. I struggled with severe OCD as a teenager. If I’d found community and sympathy online that I couldn’t find in my immediate environment, I believe I could have been persuaded to turn myself into the son my father had openly said he’d have preferred."

"When I read about the theory of gender identity, I remember how mentally sexless I felt in youth. I remember Colette’s description of herself as a ‘mental hermaphrodite’ and Simone de Beauvoir’s words: ‘It is perfectly natural for the future woman to feel indignant at the limitations posed upon her by her sex. The real question is not why she should reject them: the problem is rather to understand why she accepts them.’"

[God Control 2,181]

4 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

Oh please. The linguistic issue is at the core of this debate when people won't stop conflating sex and gender. She's equivocating woman with female when they are not the same and she knows what she's doing.

She said that early in what she wrote. She spoke of sex and gender identity. She isn’t doing anything. But people prefer to make fun of a person’s linguistics in an attempt to invalidate them. I’m actually familiar with that. Whenever I happened to dislike a Gaga song, someone has to somehow bring up Madonna’s current chart performance just because I have an avatar of her lol and they also tell me that they “know what I’m doing”.

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 minute ago, God Control said:

So you’re saying a man who looks like a typical manly man, who says they identify as a woman, is 100% without a shred of doubt legitimate?

No, I did not say that. You should read the comment I responded to. It's about nonbinary genders which your comment doesn't seem to do anything with.

[Electric Mary 1,051]

I mean I know if you're a super progressive, fem male or wtv you kinda feel "disgusted" being put in the same "gender group" of the typical heterosexual bearded man" and want to be different, but hey men can exist in a lot of different ways, that's what the fight is all about

[derpmonster 22,412]

Just now, God Control said:

She said that early in what she wrote. She spoke of sex and gender identity. She isn’t doing anything. But people prefer to make fun of a person’s linguistics in an attempt to invalidate them. I’m actually familiar with that. Whenever I happened to dislike a Gaga song, someone has to somehow bring up Madonna’s current chart performance just because I have an avatar of her lol and they also tell me that they “know what I’m doing”.

It's not making fun of it. It's simply pointing out the disingenuity in the argument. She's aware of the difference and she's still using the wrong term and strategically so - it's a fallacy called equivocation that she's using to make a persuasive point that's actually fallacious.

Half her analyses have strawman arguments or other fallacies.

[God Control 2,181]

1 minute ago, derpmonster said:

No, I did not say that. You should read the comment I responded to. It's about nonbinary genders which your comment doesn't seem to do anything with.

So do you believe non-binary genders should also have access to women restrooms?

[derpmonster 22,412]

2 minutes ago, Electric Mary said:

I mean I know if you're a super progressive, fem male or wtv you kinda feel "disgusted" being put in the same "gender group" of the typical heterosexual bearded man" and want to be different, but hey men can exist in a lot of different ways, that's what the fight is all about

I don't think you're understanding that people don't just choose not to be called men because they don't like other men or fit in with them.

Some people simply don't  feel like men, or even women. That's what gender identity is about. It's similar to how you're attracted to men or you're not. Imagine if someone told you, "well you don't have to be attracted to men, just go for a strong independent manly woman."

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 minute ago, God Control said:

So do you believe non-binary genders should also have access to women restrooms?

Please stop replying to my posts that are about a different topic from the one that I'm discussing with you. 

And no. This is why I believe gender neutral restrooms should be everywhere and easily accessible, so anyone including nonbinary people can use them.

[Electric Mary 1,051]

1 minute ago, derpmonster said:

I don't think you're understanding that people don't just choose not to be called men because they don't like other men or fit in with them.

Some people simply don't  feel like men, or even women. That's what gender identity is about. It's similar to how you're attracted to men or you're not. Imagine if someone told you, "well you don't have to be attracted to men, just go for a strong independent manly woman."

what is being "man" or woman"? you see? even people like you have those stereotypes printed inside your heads. there is no "feeling like a man" or "feeling like a woman", you are biologically MALE OR FEMALE, but there are no "standard" behaviours or ways to act I mean at least it shouldn't be the case. THAT DOES NOT mean you're allowed to call yourself a different way. 

[God Control 2,181]

1 minute ago, derpmonster said:

Please stop replying to my posts that are about a different topic from the one that I'm discussing with you. 

And no. This is why I believe gender neutral restrooms should be everywhere and easily accessible, so anyone including nonbinary people can use them.

Huh?

I only asked you a question. You can choose not to reply. It’s a public forum, and the topic at hand here thay JK Rowling is discussing was men who require only their word to prove their gender identity and get a certificate for it.

[Electric Mary 1,051]

Non binary logic: I dont feel like a man or a woman 

Also non binary: falls into the gender stereotypes/norms

 

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 minute ago, Electric Mary said:

what is being "man" or woman"? you see? even people like you have those stereotypes printed inside your heads. there is no "feeling like a man" or "feeling like a woman", you are biologically MALE OR FEMALE, but there are no "standard" behaviours or ways to act I mean at least it shouldn't be the case. THAT DOES NOT mean you're allowed to call yourself a different way. 

It's a psychological phenomenon. It's simply that. I am NOT talking about stereotypes. No matter how you dress, if you feel like a man, you're a man. If you don't, you're not. That's what gender identity is and there is tons of evidence for that out there.

Once again, it is independent of how you dress or express yourself.