J.K. Rowling defends speaking out on trans issues

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

Our resident Karen who always has to put in her verbose and ignorant opinions for every thread related to race and gender identity when she clearly knows nothing about either coming from her cis white only perspective 

[GagaSine 7,464]

33 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I never asked you to state your gender nor did I accuse you of oppressing me since I did not know your gender identity. If you'll re-read what I said, I never accused you of such a thing. You're entitled to find these terms fine but that doesn't mean all women will or should agree with you.

How is it insensitive to say that all oppressed groups should be granted equal respect? Of course I realise black women have two oppressions to deal with but they'll of course be welcome in a female space.

But I view transwomen as women and I recognise that those who identify as female are the not the only ones who menstruate but an entire term should not be stopped just because there's a very small minority who aren't part of that norm. I would like to think they understand the technicalities behind this word and just accept it for what it is. They'll have much bigger issues to deal with than being technically included in this term. And of course I'll accept anyone who menstruates but that shouldn't transpire into how I shouldn't be called a woman when I do it. And I have never encountered an infertile or menopausal women who was offended by terms like these. They were born female, they identify as female, they don't need their bodily functions (which they had once, they just don't any more) to validate that. Speaking as someone who feared that she was going through an early menopause once, it's such a harrowing feeling but at most I feared that I'd feel "less of a woman" but I never for a minute imagined that I'd stop feeling like a woman entirely. We are more than our body parts.

And I never said that all transpeople had to fully transition to be considered genuine. I'm talking about questioning men who look and talk like men but somehow, want to be regarded as women. There's a man who became somewhat internet famous called Danielle. He claims to be female but is clearly a man, has made no level of transitioning, is on no hormones, won't even so much as put on a dress or make up or shave his beard off. The only female thing about him is his name. Pardon me if I think someone like that should be questioned. This will be our new reality if we don't start seeing more evidence of truly wanting to identify as male/female before we start believing people's claims to their identity.

Conflating the fight against racism with the fight against sexism is erasing black women‘s experiences, as these two things are intrinsically linked. And fighting against sexism included fighting for trans rights.

if you‘re a woman people are gonna call you a woman, i‘m referring to broad topics. Like a trans man getting pads or tampons at the drugstore is going to have to walk into the ‘feminine care’ which certainly feels invalidating. It’s not a ‘big’ deal but it does a lot for trans people’s comfort and mental wellness to use inclusive terms instead.

The part I bolded above is exactly why lots of cis women do advocate for those inclusive terms! They don’t want to feel shame or unwoman like for not having periods or being fertile or going through menopause! Lots of older woman feel invisible because our society is so sexist and hyper focused on seeing women only as potential baby incubators and nothing else.

i don’t think you realize in your last paragraph how much you are advocating for gate keeping and creating more barriers for trans people. This harms all people who are gender nonconforming. I have hormonal issues myself and therefore I have a beard. I don’t always have the energy/time to take care of it. By questioning trans people like this you are also activiely promoting concepts that will harm me as well. I have been very masculine by nature all my life and my messed up hormones have amplified that. By your logic I should be scrutinized before being ‘allowed’ to be in female spaces despite being a cis woman. Trans people deserve better than very narrow categories that hurt lots of people. There is a lot of natural variations of what gender looks like even in cis people.

[BangTheGong 310]

“You are Voldemort” .

Very disheartening read. Feel bad for her trans fans. It’s very problematic. She can’t have it both ways... pretends to be empathetic and inclusive while stating every transphobic argument in existence. 

[NewUsername 11,344]

1 hour ago, Hurem said:

Are you gonna pretend like you ever saw anyone talk about non binary identities prior to 2013?  I'm not denying there were people who don't identify as one of the two genders in the past, but y'all pretending like people were calling themselves for decades is hilarious. (Yeah, I know there have been some, but the Tumblr era of non binary is different).

It plays into cancel culture because if you don't agree with them, they automatically "cancel" you, threaten you, if you're someone influential, they'll most likely try and doxx you. It's extremely toxic and violent. 

More attention to something doesn't mean it has just now been 'invented', as you think.

Also, is it that hard to understand the concept of spectrums? Given you're on the biggest fan forum of Lady Gaga, the chance you're not straight is high, or you'd at least expect that you'd understand how sexuality is a spectrum. So, then why is it hard to understand that gender can also be and most probably is a spectrum? But no, let's go all slippery slope and talk about identifying as animals  
 

1 hour ago, Regina George said:

I’m sorry but did you even read what she wrote in that statement? I don’t care for her to be completely honest but I hate the fact that majority of people in this thread didn’t even read what she wrote and are arguing with me making false accusations about me and this text. What she wrote is definitely not support for trans community and it’s definitely not hate towards them. She neutrally explained reasoning behind her tweet and her opinions by giving real statistics and real facts. I’m just saying that what she wrote is not her being transphobic. That text is not transphobic. Maybe she is, but judging by that text she didn’t say anything that could be translated as transphobia. 

I read her whole essay and we can discuss about how transphobic or how not transphobic it was, but neutral? It was clearly everything but neutral. That overall tone...

1 hour ago, Hurem said:

I wonder what percentage of the world identifies as something other than one of the 2 genders.  

So following your logic, just because something forms a low %, it isn't real? wut.
 

42 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It's not about creating barriers for transpeople, it's about confirming their identity as genuine and I didn't say being inclusive to non-transitioned transpeople was dehumanising but not being allowed to use the word "woman" was. Transpeople are so rare but biological females are the overwhelming majority, yet our terms have to be erased to include to appease a really small amount of people. Are you really telling me that I can't talk about my experiences as a biological woman while using the word "woman?" It's funny, with all the recent race-based discussion, what repeatedly mentioned is that white people have no right to tell black people what to say, think, feel or act. Yet, you go over to another oppressed group, women, and find that it's still not the generally accepted wisdom not to tell them what to think, say, feel or act. Clearly, woke ideology is not a equal street, there's still huge double standards and women are still repeatedly silenced in so many ways. Sad thing is, people don't even realise they're doing it, right down to Daniel Radcliffe and Eddie Redmayne, cisgender straight males, talking over a woman's opinion and apologising on her behalf based on her reasoning behind issues that they will never have or relate to. They were widely hailed as progressive for this. Irony is a foreign concept to many people.

Daniel and Eddie saw transphobia and called her out on it. It doesn't matter if she's a cis woman or if they are cis men.

[Lifeline 539]

4 hours ago, LadariousGarage said:

Read something about Gender Dysphoria

and as a trans woman, this is super hurtful and out of touch, we literally are trying to take a f*cking sh*t oh my god, and where is the outrage when a trans man goes into the mens bathroom? not saying they shouldn't be allowed to but y'all ONLY focus on trans women. Trans women are not men trying to intrude on womens spaces, nor are we predators, we have a mental illness called Gender Dysphoria, which is a disconnect between gender identity and biological sex. 

Sex is your organs, what you are born as, gender is your identity, that is one of the most stupid arguments ever, there is scientific evidence to debunk EVERYTHING you just said

if you need some papers to read about Gender Dysphoria written by actual scientists I have plenty.

Hi can you recommend me some papers about gender dysphoria? I want to learn more. 

[Regina George 59,387]

2 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

I read her whole essay and we can discuss about how transphobic or how not transphobic it was, but neutral? It was clearly everything but neutral. That overall tone...

I definitely didn’t feel like she voiced her support towards trans community (which I do think is wrong because she needed to address TOSE accusations) but I also didn’t feel like she voiced or expressed her hate towards the community ether. I feel like she took a rather ignorant take on the topic and she did make MANY points I didn’t agree with but it still didn’t feel like her being hateful, it just felt like her being misinformed/ignorant on the topic IMO. She tried to make a point and it ended up not actually giving us her personal opinions on the topic at all and that’s why I’m saying the text itself is not transphobic but actually neutral because it’s not giving us anything really. 

[GagaSine 7,464]

If anyone is interested in one trans woman’s perspective on this, Kat Blaque has two videos about JKR

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,599]

23 minutes ago, Gagaloo911 said:

Our resident Karen who always has to put in her verbose and ignorant opinions for every thread related to race and gender identity when she clearly knows nothing about either coming from her cis white only perspective 

I've seen that. Just because you don't call me by name doesn't mean I don't see it. I think I can speak about gender identity considering we all have one. And I don't come from a cis white only perspective.

23 minutes ago, GagaSine said:

Conflating the fight against racism with the fight against sexism is erasing black women‘s experiences, as these two things are intrinsically linked. And fighting against sexism included fighting for trans rights.

if you‘re a woman people are gonna call you a woman, i‘m referring to broad topics. Like a trans man getting pads or tampons at the drugstore is going to have to walk into the ‘feminine care’ which certainly feels invalidating. It’s not a ‘big’ deal but it does a lot for trans people’s comfort and mental wellness to use inclusive terms instead.

The part I bolded above is exactly why lots of cis women do advocate for those inclusive terms! They don’t want to feel shame or unwoman like for not having periods or being fertile or going through menopause! Lots of older woman feel invisible because our society is so sexist and hyper focused on seeing women only as potential baby incubators and nothing else.

i don’t think you realize in your last paragraph how much you are advocating for gate keeping and creating more barriers for trans people. This harms all people who are gender nonconforming. I have hormonal issues myself and therefore I have a beard. I don’t always have the energy/time to take care of it. By questioning trans people like this you are also activiely promoting concepts that will harm me as well. I have been very masculine by nature all my life and my messed up hormones have amplified that. By your logic I should be scrutinized before being ‘allowed’ to be in female spaces despite being a cis woman. Trans people deserve better than very narrow categories that hurt lots of people. There is a lot of natural variations of what gender looks like even in cis people.

They can be linked but they can also be separate. On the issues of bodily functions, they're absolutely separate.

No one says that a transman can't buy these products. Many people assume a man's buying that stuff for a female relative, no one need ever be aware of other reasons behind it.

I've never heard a cis woman advocate for these terms to include infertile or menopausal women. I'm literally flabbergasted to hear that. Yes, plenty of older women feel invisible but they still feel like women and never stopped feeling that way now that they're older. I've genuinely never heard your concerns about women literally stopping feeling like women when they go through this stuff. They still have the other markers of femininity so I don't know how deep that feeling can really go.

I'm not creating more barriers, just allowing the ability to ask some questions. Is having a beard your only outward sign of masculinity? If so, the rest of you could still read female and you won't get asked anything. It's usually quite clear when someone is pre-transition or in the middle of transition. Biological men and women and fully transitioned men and women usually don't throw up a question mark regardless of how they present themselves so the chances of ever asking anyone will be rare. I have seen very masculine women who are still clearly women. It's not hard to get that instinctual feeling. Once again, being transgender is so rare that this will be a very rare situation to happen anyway. And I'm talking about very extreme representations. A 6ft 2 man with a beard and male clothes and a deep voice going into a woman's bathroom or changing room is the kinda thing that I'm asking to be questioned, not a woman with a pixie crop, tomboy clothes and no make up.

12 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

Daniel and Eddie saw transphobia and called her out on it. It doesn't matter if she's a cis woman or if they are cis men.

But they completely dismissed her words and personal experiences of being a woman. They focused on one side of the debate and focused on one oppressed group over another when they should have weighed up both equally.

[NewUsername 11,344]

3 minutes ago, Regina George said:

I definitely didn’t feel like she voiced her support towards trans community (which I do think is wrong because she needed to address TOSE accusations) but I also didn’t feel like she voiced or expressed her hate towards the community ether. I feel like she took a rather ignorant take on the topic and she did make MANY points I didn’t agree with but it still didn’t feel like her being hateful, it just felt like her being misinformed/ignorant on the topic IMO. She tried to make a point and it ended up not actually giving us her personal opinions on the topic at all and that’s why I’m saying the text itself is not transphobic but actually neutral because it’s not giving us anything really. 

Not apologizing in any way or being more clear in your support towards the trans community after having been called out for being transphobic on this scale, regardless of her being it or not, can already be seen as transphobic by itself.

 

I mention all this only to explain that I knew perfectly well what was going to happen when I supported Maya. I must have been on my fourth or fifth cancellation by then. I expected the threats of violence, to be told I was literally killing trans people with my hate, to be called **** and bitch and, of course, for my books to be burned, although one particularly abusive man told me he’d composted them.

What I didn’t expect in the aftermath of my cancellation was the avalanche of emails and letters that came showering down upon me, the overwhelming majority of which were positive, grateful and supportive. 

[...]

If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

-> ridiculizing tone both between the lines and more clearer. 





 a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair 

-> this pun just feels like laughing in the faces of trans people.

The second reason is that I’m an ex-teacher and the founder of a children’s charity, which gives me an interest in both education and safeguarding. Like many others, I have deep concerns about the effect the trans rights movement is having on both.

-> Unless other paragraphs, she hardly explains this one. Why?
Now it just sounds like "SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN", pretending that kids being educated about trans people and trans rights would be somehow detrimental to the kids.

 It isn’t enough for women to be trans allies. Women must accept and admit that there is no material difference between trans women and themselves.

-> Who even said that?

All I’m asking – all I want – is for similar empathy, similar understanding, to be extended to the many millions of women whose sole crime is wanting their concerns to be heard without receiving threats and abuse.

-> where was her empathy for trans people in the first place when she started and then continued the shitstorm?


There's probably more parts, but these are the ones I remember/find immediately again without having to read the complete text again. Also, it's not evident to single out sentences, because it's especially the tone interwoven in the whole text, which doesn't surprise at all of course, given she's an author.

[Regina George 59,387]

8 minutes ago, NewUsername said:

Not apologizing in any way or being more clear in your support towards the trans community after having been called out for being transphobic on this scale, regardless of her being it or not, can already be seen as transphobic by itself.

 

I mention all this only to explain that I knew perfectly well what was going to happen when I supported Maya. I must have been on my fourth or fifth cancellation by then. I expected the threats of violence, to be told I was literally killing trans people with my hate, to be called **** and bitch and, of course, for my books to be burned, although one particularly abusive man told me he’d composted them.

What I didn’t expect in the aftermath of my cancellation was the avalanche of emails and letters that came showering down upon me, the overwhelming majority of which were positive, grateful and supportive. 

[...]

If you didn’t already know – and why should you? – ‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist.

-> ridiculizing tone both between the lines and more clearer. 





 a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair 

-> this pun just feels like laughing in the faces of trans people.

The second reason is that I’m an ex-teacher and the founder of a children’s charity, which gives me an interest in both education and safeguarding. Like many others, I have deep concerns about the effect the trans rights movement is having on both.

-> Unless other paragraphs, she hardly explains this one. Why?
Now it just sounds like "SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN", pretending that kids being educated about trans people and trans rights would be somehow detrimental to the kids.

 It isn’t enough for women to be trans allies. Women must accept and admit that there is no material difference between trans women and themselves.

-> Who even said that?

All I’m asking – all I want – is for similar empathy, similar understanding, to be extended to the many millions of women whose sole crime is wanting their concerns to be heard without receiving threats and abuse.

-> where was her empathy for trans people in the first place when she started and then continued the shitstorm?


There's probably more parts, but these are the ones I remember/find immediately again without having to read the complete text again. Also, it's not evident to single out sentences, because it's especially the tone interwoven in the whole text, which doesn't surprise at all of course, given she's an author.

I actually agree with everything you mentioned about her not apologizing... if you read my previous replies I didn’t defend her. I defended the text that she wrote now and that’s actually the center of the discussion. I don’t think this text in particular she shared today is transphobic. I do think she should make a statement regarding her previous remarks and only that. I didn’t find this text transphobic because when I read something, I read it without previous judgement. I didn’t open that text thinking I’m not going to like it because she wrote it and I think majority of people reading it already had their judgement ready before even reading it. In a context that it is written by a transphobe, it could be interpreted as transphobic but even then you have to really try hard to find the second meaning. I’d ask myself: “If this text was written by an unknown person, would I consider them transphobic?” and my answer still stands and it’s “no.” I hope you understood what I wanted to say. 

[NewUsername 11,344]

11 minutes ago, Regina George said:

I actually agree with everything you mentioned about her not apologizing... if you read my previous replies I didn’t defend her. I defended the text that she wrote now and that’s actually the center of the discussion. I don’t think this text in particular she shared today is transphobic. I do think she should make a statement regarding her previous remarks and only that. I didn’t find this text transphobic because when I read something, I read it without previous judgement. I didn’t open that text thinking I’m not going to like it because she wrote it and I think majority of people reading it already had their judgement ready before even reading it. In a context that it is written by a transphobe, it could be interpreted as transphobic but even then you have to really try hard to find the second meaning. I’d ask myself: “If this text was written by an unknown person, would I consider them transphobic?” and my answer still stands and it’s “no.” I hope you understood what I wanted to say. 

Yeah, yeah, I understood you

My reading, with as less bias as possible, definitely was like how I explained in my previous post. Something doesn't sit right, the words she chose etc. It's definitely at least ambigu, which could be very well intentional.

[MonsterJay 1,539]

 Harry Potter and the XY Cells 

[Hurem 17,800]

1 hour ago, NewUsername said:

So following your logic, just because something forms a low %, it isn't real? wut.

No, my point was despite the low % of people who identify as non binary, they’re pretty vocal and too extreme with their ideas.

[NewUsername 11,344]

Thought of this as well:

Instead of focusing more on: I don't feel comfortable as a biological woman being called "a person who menstruates" she wrote an essay that reads as "Here's my top 5 of reasons why I don't support the trans rights movement". 

---

Just now, Hurem said:

No, my point was despite the low % of people who identify as non binary, they’re pretty vocal and too extreme with their ideas.

People wanting to be treated with respect are vocal.

And "too extreme with their ideas" probably comes of a confirmation bias of yours.

[mpthecat 928]

Quite frankly I decided to not comment on this before but honestly, whatever. I do kinda see where she’s coming from and she has the right to her opinion but the thing is, and I won’t speak for the whole trans community rather just for myself as a trans individual; I know that sex is real and never denied it, in fact my trans reality stems from that very thing. After reading her essay, her tweets came into context and I see what her problems are, as my understanding is that among other things, she fears how trans activism will affect certain areas for women and children as well as having the belief of “trans is the new black”, which is, I suspect, in some parts is backed up by some de-transitioning individuals. Yes, that also happens and that’s their journey to discover themselves, but I for one knew the fact that I want to be a girl, I am a girl, when I was around 5 years old, playing in the backyard with a friend and telling her just that (which kickstarted 13 years of bullying). That feeling never changed or went away even though I tried to bury it as deep as I could or ignore it and so I decided at 29 (!) to start transition this year.  It is not because I wanted to “escape manhood” (in fact I tried to hide in manhood as I thought, that was easier to do even though it’s absolute misery), it is because I finally came to the conclusion that I can’t exist like this or it will eventually end in suicide down the road. 

I don’t see how the reality of cis women would be erased nor do I, personally have any desire for that to happen, ever. Women are beautiful, they’re the giver of life, they’re resilient, full of emotional intelligence, strong and most of all, they’re fighters. I just want to be a part of it, being a woman that is, peacefully, no fanfare. Again, I kinda see her point on bathrooms... but like many others  said it before, an individual who wants to abuse women in any way, shape or form, will do it regardless and I don’t think the sign on a bathroom would stop them. I was raped by two men, those people don’t give a **** about these things and I don’t think it’s as easy to change one’s gender legally as she described it, if it is in certain countries, then there is some (emphasis on some!) validity to it.  Either way, I strongly empathize with her on sexual abuse and violence towards women (or anyone!). 

However, in some cases, she is just singling out a few individual cases and projecting that to the bigger canvas, making it a bit too extreme. 

 

The thing is, the reality of trans people creates a sort of existential crisis in some people, because it questions the very basis of what they thought were normal, what they were taught and what they saw while developing as a child. And I understand that. I get it, I would also scratch my head if I was a cis person while facing these realities. I also scratched my head as a child in 1995 and all the way up to accepting myself as trans. It’s not a cake walk, it’s not as easy as fetishizing Jimmy Choo’s (in fact I never wore woman clothes) or wanting to escape ones man- or womanhood. If I want to be frank, it’s torture, hell even in certain periods and not something someone wishes upon embarking. It is a constant struggle. I don’t think about dresses or make up, I just want to be at peace. 

 

By the way, her writing of Pippa, the trans character in The Silkworm is not the most progressive way of writing a trans character, I believe that was where the research started. 

 

I see my mother in her, whom thankfully made some positive progress over the years.