Shorter songs means gone the days of Gaga's signature Hooks?!

[Rio 5,088]

Sorry but it's a house album, or very house-influenced. Shouldn't have expected longer tracks to begin with

[Ziggy 10,363]

Tbh I think Venus was her laying the groundwork for this. It’s all hooks, one after another. She said as much. I’d characterize these newer songs (Shallow onward) to be of a similar ilk. She’s still doing hook, but it’s ALL hook. Whether you like that or not is a matter of opinion, but I see it as a condensing of her music style rather than a real change in it.

[GC1234 585]

Tbh I think some of us were more worried that the days of PopGa were gone! So I’ll take a shorter song as long as we get to keep our Queen of pop 

[PlasticDollGirl 1,236]

If gaga wants success she has to follow this trend. Otherwise hello flop

[Emigrante 9,323]

1 hour ago, Antonoff said:

lmao what?

I FREAK OUT I FREAK OUT I FREAK OUT LOOK AT ME

RAIN. ON. ME.

RAIN ON ME RAIN RAIN

I think we have plenty of them so far

this x100

those are hooks

[JoanneMonster 7,968]

Its funny to me that some of you are mad that this album has “short songs” its not about how long the songs are, this album is almost as long as joanne. Are u guys listening to songs while counting how long they are? Its music, and if a song is 32 seconds long its because its supposed to. I dont know why do u care so much about the lenght of the songs.

and “rain on me, rain, rain” is still a hook and its pretty “gaga” so please stop specualting when the album is not even out yet.

[JustHMLover2 706]

Maybe it's because of the Chromatica theme - very straightforward dance music. A dance track can be just 2 min long and can be ICONIC. It leaves you wanting more and getting you back to the replay button. I bet when she makes a pop record ala born this way she will record longer tracks. But its never about lenght - its about quality.

[jorja 1,082]

girl... it's just shorter hooks that's all 

[JustJames 669]

It's bizarre how defensive people get; the trend toward shorter songs aimed at streaming success has had a major impact on Gaga who - despite claims - has gone on record stating how she has a formulaic approach to her songwriting (before BTW, she discussed how she tried to change up her typical structures, while giving thoughts on a chorus' importance and the ideal length of a pop hit [3:30 secs for the record]). Formulaic does NOT mean bad, nor is the OP stating that Chromatica is going to be a disappointment.

BEFORE: The average single from Born This Way was over 4:30; EOG and Y&I both surpassed 5:00.

AFTER: The average single from Chromatica will be ~3:00 to reflect 2020 demand. 

That is ~2 full minutes of music that was *typical* of any Gaga song that will *no longer* be there, even on deep cuts, in direct response to the way music is consumed and measured for Charts, Certifications, etc. Why is this discussion met with such hostility? We can all be - hopefully are - excited for Chromatica. But, with a new album SHOULD come discussion on the evolution of a career as legendary as Gaga's. 

Gaga's best hits absolutely had identifiable characteristics. That doesn't mean 'generic'; it means she broke through the noise-filled pop industry with a hard-hitting and undeniably catchy way of creating music.

1. INTROS/OUTROS: The emotional accoustic-like singing of the chorus before the beat hits in Bad Romance sets the stage and is iconic, and the ending with the identifiable clapping outro chorus was brilliance. BTW and ARTPOP / ARTPOP demos have some of the most amazing intros and outros from Government Hooker, Scheisse, and Judas to Aura, MANiCURE (demo/studio), ARTPOP.

2. VERSES/PRE-CHORUS: The 2 verses of the Chromatica singles (and any hit 2020 pop song) likely do not add up to 1 from an older Gaga smash; it amazes me at how much she packs in - sometimes too much. Just Dance, Alejandro, Scheisse, G.U.Y., Applause have some of the most bizarre and fantastic pre-choruses in pop! Yes, Stupid Love had a catchy pre-chorus, but with little before or after.

3. CHORUSES: 2 singles in, the choruses, in total are: "I want your stupid love." + "I'd rather be dry, but at least I'm alive. Rain on me." Let's take a look at Paparazzi: "I'm your biggest fan, I'll follow you until you love me. Paparazzi. Baby, there's no other superstar, you know that I'll be your paparazzi. Promise I'll be kind, but I won't stop until that boy is mine. Baby, you'll be famous, chase you down until you love. Paparazzi." Really, guys? I love ROM. But, Paparazzi's chorus alone explains the sinister love-stalker lyrical story, while we need interviews and the context of past events to understand the inspiration for ROM. 

4. BRIDGES: Gaga does have more bridges in her 2 Chromatica singles than I've heard in a while. But, "I don't need a reason. Not sorry I want your stupid love." x2 doesn't advance a story like Gaga's bridges used to. She was never a Taylor Swift-like storyteller except in Gypsy (again, incomparable and impossible in a 3-minute constraint), but from the longest of bridges like The Fame, Speechless, and Dance in the Dark, to simpler ones like DWUW and Million Reasons, to the wordless ones of Edge of Glory and Shallow, Gaga's bridges have always sewn up the song before bursting into the final chorus.

This was not a creative choice, and the lyricism on Chromatica is going to reflect an understandable need to tailor her output to make money in the current market. Do I fault her for it? Absolutely not. Do I think some of her older songs could be tightened up? Sure. Will I miss all that she was able to deliver in the 2 minutes that have been chopped off songs thanks to streamers who 'skip' after 2 minutes? YES! 

[Gagz 2,572]

I would love to get a new song with some of her signature stuttering 

[Lukey 588]

Girl... all three of the tracks we've heard from Chromatica (SL, ROM & FW demo) are a series of hook one after another

"Freak out, freak out", "Hey yeah yeah yeah, ooh ooh" "Stupid Love, Love" from SL

"Rain. On. Me" "Rain on me, rain rain" "I hear the thunder coming down" form ROM

"Be. Free." "I'm a Free Womaeaeaeaeaean" "I want want to be be be free free free free forever baby" from FW

There's not a defined "Gaga" hook here, 'cause the song is entirely a hook

[Gerrard174 508]

20 minutes ago, JustJames said:

It's bizarre how defensive people get; the trend toward shorter songs aimed at streaming success has had a major impact on Gaga who - despite claims - has gone on record stating how she has a formulaic approach to her songwriting (before BTW, she discussed how she tried to change up her typical structures, while giving thoughts on a chorus' importance and the ideal length of a pop hit [3:30 secs for the record]). Formulaic does NOT mean bad, nor is the OP stating that Chromatica is going to be a disappointment.

BEFORE: The average single from Born This Way was over 4:30; EOG and Y&I both surpassed 5:00.

AFTER: The average single from Chromatica will be ~3:00 to reflect 2020 demand. 

That is ~2 full minutes of music that was *typical* of any Gaga song that will *no longer* be there, even on deep cuts, in direct response to the way music is consumed and measured for Charts, Certifications, etc. Why is this discussion met with such hostility? We can all be - hopefully are - excited for Chromatica. But, with a new album SHOULD come discussion on the evolution of a career as legendary as Gaga's. 

Gaga's best hits absolutely had identifiable characteristics. That doesn't mean 'generic'; it means she broke through the noise-filled pop industry with a hard-hitting and undeniably catchy way of creating music.

1. INTROS/OUTROS: The emotional accoustic-like singing of the chorus before the beat hits in Bad Romance sets the stage and is iconic, and the ending with the identifiable clapping outro chorus was brilliance. BTW and ARTPOP / ARTPOP demos have some of the most amazing intros and outros from Government Hooker, Scheisse, and Judas to Aura, MANiCURE (demo/studio), ARTPOP.

2. VERSES/PRE-CHORUS: The 2 verses of the Chromatica singles (and any hit 2020 pop song) likely do not add up to 1 from an older Gaga smash; it amazes me at how much she packs in - sometimes too much. Just Dance, Alejandro, Scheisse, G.U.Y., Applause have some of the most bizarre and fantastic pre-choruses in pop! Yes, Stupid Love had a catchy pre-chorus, but with little before or after.

3. CHORUSES: 2 singles in, the choruses, in total are: "I want your stupid love." + "I'd rather be dry, but at least I'm alive. Rain on me." Let's take a look at Paparazzi: "I'm your biggest fan, I'll follow you until you love me. Paparazzi. Baby, there's no other superstar, you know that I'll be your paparazzi. Promise I'll be kind, but I won't stop until that boy is mine. Baby, you'll be famous, chase you down until you love. Paparazzi." Really, guys? I love ROM. But, Paparazzi's chorus alone explains the sinister love-stalker lyrical story, while we need interviews and the context of past events to understand the inspiration for ROM. 

4. BRIDGES: Gaga does have more bridges in her 2 Chromatica singles than I've heard in a while. But, "I don't need a reason. Not sorry I want your stupid love." x2 doesn't advance a story like Gaga's bridges used to. She was never a Taylor Swift-like storyteller except in Gypsy (again, incomparable and impossible in a 3-minute constraint), but from the longest of bridges like The Fame, Speechless, and Dance in the Dark, to simpler ones like DWUW and Million Reasons, to the wordless ones of Edge of Glory and Shallow, Gaga's bridges have always sewn up the song before bursting into the final chorus.

This was not a creative choice, and the lyricism on Chromatica is going to reflect an understandable need to tailor her output to make money in the current market. Do I fault her for it? Absolutely not. Do I think some of her older songs could be tightened up? Sure. Will I miss all that she was able to deliver in the 2 minutes that have been chopped off songs thanks to streamers who 'skip' after 2 minutes? YES! 

Oh my!! U totally summed up my idea/thoughts. The bridge thing was in my mind but i didnt want to discuss it here.

Girls, i'm not even complaining cause we all is going to get an album soon. But i gonna miss her old songs writing. Sometimes the people in this forum is too defensive over thoughts like this. 

 

[Ziggy 10,363]

34 minutes ago, JustJames said:

It's bizarre how defensive people get; the trend toward shorter songs aimed at streaming success has had a major impact on Gaga who - despite claims - has gone on record stating how she has a formulaic approach to her songwriting (before BTW, she discussed how she tried to change up her typical structures, while giving thoughts on a chorus' importance and the ideal length of a pop hit [3:30 secs for the record]). Formulaic does NOT mean bad, nor is the OP stating that Chromatica is going to be a disappointment.

BEFORE: The average single from Born This Way was over 4:30; EOG and Y&I both surpassed 5:00.

AFTER: The average single from Chromatica will be ~3:00 to reflect 2020 demand. 

That is ~2 full minutes of music that was *typical* of any Gaga song that will *no longer* be there, even on deep cuts, in direct response to the way music is consumed and measured for Charts, Certifications, etc. Why is this discussion met with such hostility? We can all be - hopefully are - excited for Chromatica. But, with a new album SHOULD come discussion on the evolution of a career as legendary as Gaga's. 

Gaga's best hits absolutely had identifiable characteristics. That doesn't mean 'generic'; it means she broke through the noise-filled pop industry with a hard-hitting and undeniably catchy way of creating music.

1. INTROS/OUTROS: The emotional accoustic-like singing of the chorus before the beat hits in Bad Romance sets the stage and is iconic, and the ending with the identifiable clapping outro chorus was brilliance. BTW and ARTPOP / ARTPOP demos have some of the most amazing intros and outros from Government Hooker, Scheisse, and Judas to Aura, MANiCURE (demo/studio), ARTPOP.

2. VERSES/PRE-CHORUS: The 2 verses of the Chromatica singles (and any hit 2020 pop song) likely do not add up to 1 from an older Gaga smash; it amazes me at how much she packs in - sometimes too much. Just Dance, Alejandro, Scheisse, G.U.Y., Applause have some of the most bizarre and fantastic pre-choruses in pop! Yes, Stupid Love had a catchy pre-chorus, but with little before or after.

3. CHORUSES: 2 singles in, the choruses, in total are: "I want your stupid love." + "I'd rather be dry, but at least I'm alive. Rain on me." Let's take a look at Paparazzi: "I'm your biggest fan, I'll follow you until you love me. Paparazzi. Baby, there's no other superstar, you know that I'll be your paparazzi. Promise I'll be kind, but I won't stop until that boy is mine. Baby, you'll be famous, chase you down until you love. Paparazzi." Really, guys? I love ROM. But, Paparazzi's chorus alone explains the sinister love-stalker lyrical story, while we need interviews and the context of past events to understand the inspiration for ROM. 

4. BRIDGES: Gaga does have more bridges in her 2 Chromatica singles than I've heard in a while. But, "I don't need a reason. Not sorry I want your stupid love." x2 doesn't advance a story like Gaga's bridges used to. She was never a Taylor Swift-like storyteller except in Gypsy (again, incomparable and impossible in a 3-minute constraint), but from the longest of bridges like The Fame, Speechless, and Dance in the Dark, to simpler ones like DWUW and Million Reasons, to the wordless ones of Edge of Glory and Shallow, Gaga's bridges have always sewn up the song before bursting into the final chorus.

This was not a creative choice, and the lyricism on Chromatica is going to reflect an understandable need to tailor her output to make money in the current market. Do I fault her for it? Absolutely not. Do I think some of her older songs could be tightened up? Sure. Will I miss all that she was able to deliver in the 2 minutes that have been chopped off songs thanks to streamers who 'skip' after 2 minutes? YES! 

I’m glad you bring this up because these are my thoughts on the Chromatica tracks I’ve heard so far— the songs need room to breath a bit. I like ROM a lot, but I’d love it even more if she had not made it quite *so* tight. Even just Telephone-type length would be nice. I can appreciate her doing and trying something different, but I’m not necessarily a fan of how she is not just condensing but sacrificing certain unique elements of her songwriting in this process. I think it’s a worthwhile discussion to have a back and forth on how this change in trends affects her songwriting and the strength of it. It’s evident to me that she brings in people like Bloodpop and Robson to help restrain her a bit (Robson said so many times that she wrote a ton of hooks for Shallow and he had to help edit).

a question I have is: do tighter songs like a ROM suit her better than something wider like TEOG? I personally think subject matter and story being told is the most important factor in asking ourselves this.

[Wood 118]

I mean as a popstar Gaga has always done hooks... maybe MORE of the songs will be like that

[ice bear 1]

if so, paper magazine was lying with "hooks stronger than the fame"