ADVENTURE 856 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Florin said: Yea. Why are so many people screaming at us? Because they are boring darling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 @blankpaper @ADVENTURE While I can understand the viewpoint you all share, that Starbucks comment from @Florin was unequivocally ignorant regardless of whether or not it was meant to be humorous and clearly showcases a lack of perspective regarding the legitimate seriousness of the current situation. Also, you're not exaclty presenting a healthy environment for discussion by following up your post with comments such as "Just wait. Lockdown supporters will find a new reason why people need to stay home." My point is, don't act as though you're better than anyone else here when you are quite literally instigating these heated discussions by leaving nonsensical and immature comments meant to degrade/mock others with an opposing opinion. I may not agree with all of your particular opinions on certain things, but I don't see how that would give me the incentive to begin spouting condescending comments about you or others that share the same sentiments. Basically, gain some maturity and present your ideals in a respectful manner. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 12 hours ago, Midknight said: idk if this is relevant to the thread but...I'll just leave this here in case some ppl need to print it. These people should at least sign a DNI and DNR, so they don’t become a burden on the medical system and put medical workers in danger. It’s the least the can do for their “freedom”. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CautiousLurker 19,709 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Florin said: Why dont u discuss the article / study instead of going after me? What's the narrative? The truth? The Elon Musk thread was created because he is Elon Musk. Not every article I posted is a study or about covid, but if I remmember correctly he also tweeted an article that showed that lockdowns dont save many people, which again shows that his opinion is at least based on some data. Cuz I can't be bothered to vet every source just to check someone's bloated ego - you can find an article to support any view point, but going over expert credentials takes time... Just because you found a bunch of articles doesn't make you right, I can do the same but why bother, you'll dismiss it without vetting em even faster - that's not why you make these threads Considering how even the most conservative of states went into lockdown, your narrative is hardly the truth - I highly doubt you're so smart you just know things better than everyone including numerous politicians who have been swayed despite having every incentive not to be... Oh, and Elon Musk is a moron - his opinion is based on money, and he has made plenty of questionable statements, including that one - making the lockdown about freedom has got to be the stupidest take - only neckbeards with like 3 braincells buy that one... oh well, maybe you should make friends with those types, certainly sounds like you have things in common, at least more so than this community since few on here are buying your shtick It's a joke! When you give me that look, it's a joke! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankpaper 21 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, WholesomeOOf said: @blankpaper @ADVENTURE While I can understand the viewpoint you all share, that Starbucks comment from @Florin was unequivocally ignorant regardless of whether or not it was meant to be humorous and clearly showcases a lack of perspective regarding the legitimate seriousness of the situation. Also, you're not exaclty presenting a healthy environment for discussion by following up your post with comments such as "Just wait. Lockdown supporters will find a new reason why people need to stay home." My point is, don't act as though you're better than anyone else here when you are quite literally instigating these heated discussions by leaving nonsensical and immature comments meant to degrade/mock others with an opposing opinion. @WholesomeOOf, you know I love you, but the biggest issue here is that anyone who dares present anything that’s not a worst case scenario, doom and gloom argument is seen as peddling propaganda. Why is it acceptable for people to constantly post about how this is the apocalypse and the entire world is going to die without acknowledging studies that show hope and a light at the end of the tunnel? If it’s okay for one side to focus solely on articles and studies that support their opinion, then it should be okay for the other side too. Until that double standard is evened out, we’re tired of being vilified and that turns into offhand sarcastic comments about Starbucks As for not promoting a healthy environment for discussion, neither are those disagreeing. They rarely present an actual argument, and just call us stupid or entitled instead reality’s tight if the music is right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 17 hours ago, Postboy said: Lol you tried. This system will always be susceptible to the mismanagement of corrupt politicians who hold the needs of the rich and powerful above the rest. The shut down only exists because the healthcare system is being held hostage. If this country had done the logical thing, we would be prepared to take on as many cases as needed and we wouldn’t be forced to close down the precious economy. This has always been about our rotten healthcare system... not shutting down just for the sake of shutting down. Then why are countries with “excellent healthcare” shutting down? The Lombardy Province in Italy has excellent hospitals and they were beyond their breaking point during a complete lockdown. The lockdowns weren’t propaganda. They were necessary, in order to keep the virus under control and to keep the medical system from shutting down. If we lose too many doctors, we are screwed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, CautiousLurker said: Cuz I can't be bothered to vet every source just to check someone's bloated ego - you can find an article to support any view point, but going over expert credentials takes time... Just because you found a bunch of articles doesn't make you right, I can do the same but why bother, you'll dismiss it without vetting em even faster - that's not why you make these threads Considering how even the most conservative of states went into lockdown, your narrative is hardly the truth - I highly doubt you're so smart you just know things better than everyone including numerous politicians who have been swayed despite having every incentive not to be... Oh, and Elon Musk is a moron - his opinion is based on money, and he has made plenty of questionable statements, including that one - making the lockdown about freedom has got to be the stupidest take - only neckbeards with like 3 braincells buy that one... oh well, maybe you should make friends with those types, certainly sounds like you have things in common, at least more so than this community since few on here are buying your shtick So much talk and again zero evidence. U cant be bothered to "vet every source", but you have the time to make multiple comments about me posting an article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 20 minutes ago, Whispering said: Then why are countries with “excellent healthcare” shutting down? The Lombardy Province in Italy has excellent hospitals and they were beyond their breaking point during a complete lockdown. The lockdowns weren’t propaganda. They were necessary, in order to keep the virus under control and to keep the medical system from shutting down. If we lose too many doctors, we are screwed! To this day, I haven't seen a single scientific evidence that the lockdowns were effective. Can you show me any study that shows that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geusst1235 5,398 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 42 minutes ago, blankpaper said: @WholesomeOOf, you know I love you, but the biggest issue here is that anyone who dares present anything that’s not a worst case scenario, doom and gloom argument is seen as peddling propaganda. Why is it acceptable for people to constantly post about how this is the apocalypse and the entire world is going to die without acknowledging studies that show hope and a light at the end of the tunnel? If it’s okay for one side to focus solely on articles and studies that support their opinion, then it should be okay for the other side too. Until that double standard is evened out, we’re tired of being vilified and that turns into offhand sarcastic comments about Starbucks As for not promoting a healthy environment for discussion, neither are those disagreeing. They rarely present an actual argument, and just call us stupid or entitled instead Thanks 💕❤💕 Well obviously I don't believe that this is an end of the world scenario or anything (I don't think that most of the people who also agree with the lockdown do either), but it is undeniably an incredibly serious situation that should be met with the proper response. I think one of the issues that has risen from the particular notion of people wanting the lockdown to end now is that there are indeed those who are completely disregarding any semblance of precautionary action regarding Covid-19. Of course I'm not going to generalize by stating that everyone who wants to go back to some shred of normality is acting in such a way, however there is a concerning amount of people that are acting as if the virus has suddenly disappeared altogether. As we all know that simply is not the case in the slightest; ergo reckless behavior such as not wearing masks, ignoring social distancing guidelines,etc can absolutely lead to the preventable loss of more life regardless of how large or small that number may end up being. Now, wanting to go back to work so people can actually pay their bills and feed their families is totally valid. The thing is, the government should be aiding those that are financially struggling during this crisis so that the states can at least slowly/safely open up within the proper requirements that have been set instead of deciding to reopen everything randomly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG 19,908 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Florin said: To this day, I haven't seen a single scientific evidence that the lockdowns were effective. Can you show me any study that shows that? Lockdowns literally break down the transmission. I have yet to see a single scientific evidence that proves the contrary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blankpaper 21 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, WholesomeOOf said: Thanks 💕❤💕 Well obviously I don't believe that this is an end of the world scenario or anything, but it is undeniably an incredibly serious situation that should be met with the proper response. I think one of the issues that has risen from the particular notion of people wanting the lockdown to end now is that there are indeed those who are completely disregarding any semblance of precautionary action regarding Covid-19. Of course I'm not going to generalize by stating that everyone who wants to go back to some shred of normality is acting in such a way, however there is a concerning amount of people that are acting as if the virus has suddenly disappeared altogether. As we all know that simply is not the case in the slightest; ergo reckless behavior such as not wearing masks, ignoring social distancing guidelines,etc can absolutely lead to the preventable loss of more life regardless of how large or small that number may end up being. Now, wanting to go back to work so people can actually pay their bills and feed their families is totally valid. The thing is, the government should absolutely be aiding those that are financially struggling during this crisis so that the states can at least slowly/safely open up within the proper requirements that have been set instead of randomly deciding reopen everything. I can’t speak for Florin or Maleficent or Adventure or whoever else is supporting reopening, but my personal opinion is that the protesters are stupid and reopening shouldn’t be a free for all. But restrictions should start easing and we should start phasing in reopening, and we’re probably at the point where the economic implications are going to be more deadly. It’s frustrating and unfair when people paint us all with the same brush and assume anyone who supports reopening is out protesting and threatening to run over healthcare workers or something As for how the government should be helping people...they should but they aren’t and won’t. So people need to go back to work reality’s tight if the music is right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bt1 5,213 Posted May 2, 2020 Author Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, BenG said: Lockdowns literally break down the transmission. I have yet to see a single scientific evidence that proves the contrary. From what I've seen, Sweden with no lockdowns has a similar curve as a lot of countries with lockdowns, when we are talking about deaths. That, at least until now, shows that the efficiency of lockdowns isnt there. The fact that lockdowns stop the transmissions of viruses outside households is true with any virus. We didnt take such a measure until now for a reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chun li 3,056 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 the fact that you want lockdown to stop not because you need to work, not because you're away from home, not because you have mental health issues, but because you want to go to starbucks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenG 19,908 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Florin said: From what I've seen, Sweden with no lockdowns has a similar curve as a lot of countries with lockdowns, when we are talking about deaths. That, at least until now, shows that the efficiency of lockdowns isnt there. The fact that lockdowns stop the transmissions of viruses outside households is true with any virus. We didnt take such a measure until now for a reason. 1. A curve will always exists whether there is a lockdown or not. The gradient of the curve is not the only measure of effectiveness of a lockdown because the natural reproduction number varies from country to country. Sweden has had a low R0 since the beginning, whereas other countries had way higher R0's. Without lockdowns, most countries would have many, many more cases, given that the spread is exponential. This would have overwhelmed the healthcare system. 2. Firstly, COVID-19 is novel. We combat various viruses with different measures. The most basic methods are prevention (vaccines, condoms, handwashing etc.) and treatment/cure. COVID-19 does not have a vaccine, nor a disease-specific treatment/cure. Secondly, the SARS-CoV-2 virus has a very high R0, unlike the common cold. Let's look back at the closest thing we had, which was SARS, and a vaccine was developed to combat the virus. However, it was successfully contained and eventually died off. The difference is that it was easier to contain because transmission was only by patients who were already showing symptoms, making it much easier to track and isolate patients. Just look at the difference in number of deaths. This is unprecedented, hence lockdowns being imposed for the first time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorlax 6,370 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 On 5/1/2020 at 11:23 AM, Lucas said: There were some people in China who got reinfected after being healed so... China is feeding you lies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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