xoxo Craig 55,649 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, vixdean said: The many times I have seen you write about Madonna is always in a way that is meant to diminish her. It really just shows a complete lack of knowledge of pop history music and Madonna's place in it. If you actually knew Madonna's history and discography, you wouldn't be making claims like the ones above. The subtle but shady comment you wrote - "songs that others had written for her like Like A Virgin" - clearly demonstrates you are coming from a biased and uninformed place, because Madonna is an an accomplished songwriter, having been inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and nominated multiple times for the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Her voice might not be the belting type, but is one that conveys true emotion -- there's plenty of belting-type singers in American Idol, XFactor and those kind of shows that never become stars. You know why? Because it's not only having a voice that makes a star. Just a few points on why she will always remain at the forefront of popular culture and will maintain a unmatched position as THE female artist and pioneer: - Her music, style, music videos, fashion and overall persona has marked decade after decade the musical landscape and those who came after her. Like a Prayer, Justify My Love, Erotica, Vogue, Hung Up -- these songs by themselves are cultural staples, not to mention the visuals that accompanied them. - The tour format that all artists follow today was pioneered by her in her Blond Ambition Tour, which set the blueprint from today's tour formats. - Her reinventions are part of the World's cultural memory - the wedding dress, and grungy bracelet girl style, the S&M persona, the spiritual M, the pink leotard - all these are uniquevolly Madonna and will forever be remembered as such. - Her fight and support for the LGBTQ community at a time that could cost her her career in the 80s will forever be remembered. She was the one true star at the height of her career that openly campaigned for gay rights and fought for HIV prevention at a time that thousands of gay people were literally dying of what was called the 'gay plague'. - Finally, the many unmatched hits, all-time records, and best-selling achievements all speak for themselves. Much, much more could be said about Madonna, but she's not just someone that "paved the way for female artists to be taken more seriously." Her impact and influence will forever remain unequivocally in pop history music as one of the greatest. There's no need to bring down Madonna to prop up Gaga, and Gaga can definitely make a space for herself. I wasn't bringing Madonna down to praise Gaga at all. These of course are my opinions and in my original answer I gave way back in this thread, I said that Madonna is the one of the greatest pop stars of all time because she represents something bigger than her music. I actually prasied Madonna earlier in this thread, and I'll admit that sometimes biased opinions come through. But I did infact praise Madonna much earlier in the thread. If you check back you can see exactly what I said. It wasn't me who brought Gaga into things. Someone said that Gaga wouldn't have an identity if Madonna wasn't around. And that is completely false. I was defending that in my answer you quoted me in. Its a know fact that she doesn't write all her music. Her voice is very mediocre, and y'all need to stop staying "oh its not the belting type" as an excuse because if someone else had Madonna's voice, you wouldn't be prasing it. Ariana Grande doesn't have a belting voice, neither does Alessia Cara or Lorde... but their singing styles are better sounding than Madonna. Now, obviously thats subjective. But the point is Madonna is not known for her vocals purely because they are pretty weak. As I said in my previous answer, the only reason why Madonna can be held as ONE of the greatest pop stars of all time is simply because Madonna stands for much more than just music. She was so courageous and outspoken about things that others were afraid of. She used sex in a way that wasn't seen before, she stood up for what she believed in and helped the fight against AIDS. She has always been at the forefront of being an excellent example of someone using their power to do good things like humanitarian work. She has had hits, but honestly, when someone asks you about Madonna, music is not the first thing that comes to peoples minds. Its always the work like the AIDS thing, or her Sex Book, or her continuous fight for the LGBT community and everything else she has done with her platform for good. Madonna is bigger than her music or her songs, and her bravery in sticking with it when people were coming at her means that she will forever be one of the greatest. But I don't see it just being on music alone. End Racism Now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindness Hooker 7 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 People saying Britney... Also why are people saying Madonna she's definitely an icon but she's also definitely more of a "performer" than an "artist". She's not as well rounded as someone like Prince who solo produced a lot of his music AND can perform the haus down. Michael Jackson is always on top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMonster 14,675 Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, vixdean said: The many times I have seen you write about Madonna is always in a way that is meant to diminish her. It really just shows a complete lack of knowledge of pop history music and Madonna's place in it. If you actually knew Madonna's history and discography, you wouldn't be making claims like the ones above. The subtle but shady comment you wrote - "songs that others had written for her like Like A Virgin" - clearly demonstrates you are coming from a biased and uninformed place, because Madonna is an an accomplished songwriter, having been inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and nominated multiple times for the Songwriters Hall of Fame. Her voice might not be the belting type, but is one that conveys true emotion -- there's plenty of belting-type singers in American Idol, XFactor and those kind of shows that never become stars. You know why? Because it's not only having a voice that makes a star. Just a few points on why she will always remain at the forefront of popular culture and will maintain a unmatched position as THE female artist and pioneer: - Her music, style, music videos, fashion and overall persona has marked decade after decade the musical landscape and those who came after her. Like a Prayer, Justify My Love, Erotica, Vogue, Hung Up -- these songs by themselves are cultural staples, not to mention the visuals that accompanied them. - The tour format that all artists follow today was pioneered by her in her Blond Ambition Tour, which set the blueprint from today's tour formats. - Her reinventions are part of the World's cultural memory - the wedding dress, and grungy bracelet girl style, the S&M persona, the spiritual M, the pink leotard - all these are uniquevolly Madonna and will forever be remembered as such. - Her fight and support for the LGBTQ community at a time that could cost her her career in the 80s will forever be remembered. She was the one true star at the height of her career that openly campaigned for gay rights and fought for HIV prevention at a time that thousands of gay people were literally dying of what was called the 'gay plague'. - Finally, the many unmatched hits, all-time records, and best-selling achievements all speak for themselves. Much, much more could be said about Madonna, but she's not just someone that "paved the way for female artists to be taken more seriously." Her impact and influence will forever remain unequivocally in pop history music as one of the greatest. There's no need to bring down Madonna to prop up Gaga, and Gaga can definitely make a space for herself. This was a great run down of Madonna's legacy, and it's completely undeniable. She, without doubt, is THE female pop star. But what's kind of incredible is that, as I read your list, I realize that Gaga ticks all of those boxes, too, and has already achieved most of what Madonna has. She really did follow in Madonna's footsteps and 'elevated' it, or at least reimagined it for a modern audience at the time. Gaga was something totally new for the music scene in the late 2000s. She kind of 're-lit' the 'Madonna' flame in the industry in many ways. A direct comparison, for example: 1) The iconography and visual memorability: Poker Face, Paparazzi, Telephone, Bad Romance, the meat dress (+ countless other looks). 2) The tours: Gaga, in many ways, elevated the high-production tour format and set a new blueprint for artists of her time. 3) Reinventions / eras: Gaga's era-to-era transformations certainly defined her fame. Even down to Joanne, her styles and evolutions are known far and wide. 4) LGBT+ support: Gaga was the first (and only?) artist to get the words 'gay, bi, lesbian, transgender' on the radio - and she did it absolutely at her peak, and when success was so expected from her. BTW was really Gaga at her most anticipated and hyped, and she decided to give that moment to the gays. And again, this absolutely has defined who Gaga is in terms as an artist and icon. 5) Hits / records / stats: I don't have the time right now to pull up the receipts, but Gaga was THE digital artist, and defined an entire era of modern pop music. And even now, she's still hitting new highs with Shallow and ASIB. It's totally fascinating when you compare their careers, tbh. Gaga really is Madonna's reign and, imo, will - in time - have a legacy that matches hers. And since, again imo, she has more raw talent than Madonna does, I believe she will certainly be remembered as the most TALENTED female pop artist of all time. And it's weird, because I don't think many people outside of our fandom realize that. But, in time, I really do think history will remember Gaga extremely well - just as she, herself, once predicted, lol. subtext / fantasy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoxo Craig 55,649 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, OMonster said: This was a great run down of Madonna's legacy, and it's completely undeniable. She, without doubt, is THE female pop star. But what's kind of incredible is that, as I read your list, Gaga ticks all of those boxes, too, and has already achieved most of that. She really did follow in Madonna's footsteps and 'elevate' it or at least reimagine it for a modern audience at the time. Gaga was something totally new for the music scene in the late 2000s. She kind of 're-lit' the 'Madonna' flame in the industry in many ways. A direct comparison, for example: 1) The iconography and visual memorability: Poker Face, Paparazzi, Telephone, Bad Romance, the meat dress, the countless looks. 2) The tours: Gaga, in many ways, elevated the high-production tour format and set a new blueprint for artists of her time. 3) Reinventions / eras: Gaga's era-to-era transformations are huge and certainly defined her fame. Even down to Joanne, Gaga's styles and evolutions are known far and wide. She is most famous for that, imo. 4) LGBT+ support: Gaga was the first (and only?) artist to get the words 'gay, bi, lesbian, transgender' on the radio - and she did it absolutely at her peak and when success was so expected. BTW was really Gaga at her most anticipated and hyped, and she decided to give that moment to the gays. And again, this absolutely has defined who Gaga is in terms of advocacy and fighting for social justice, 5) Hits / records / stats: I don't have the time right now to pull up the receipts, but Gaga was THE digital artist and defined an era of music. And even now, she's still hitting new highs (Shallow). It's totally fascinating when you compare their careers, tbh. Gaga really is Madonna's reign and, imo, will - in time - have a legacy that matches hers. And since, again only imo, she has more raw talent than Madonna does, I believe she will certainly be remembered as the most TALENTED female pop artist of all time. Its just the thing for me that sets them apart is Gaga's vocals, her artistic vision, the way she is so hands on when she comes to creating music, her personality, the way she carries herself, her songwriting, and the way she will not stop until she has made the world a better place. Yeah Gaga has achieved everything and probably slighty more than what Madonna has, but Gaga to me just has something much more attractive to her than what Madonna had (not talking about looks here). There's something so pure and so authentic when it comes to Gaga, and I never got that from Madonna at all. Gaga to me has the full package while achieving everything Madonna has achieved in less time. Gaga will be remembered as one of the greatest, talented and versatile popstars/musicians to ever grace this earth, and I don't think its too early to say that. End Racism Now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OMonster 14,675 Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, xoxo Craig said: Its just the thing for me that sets them apart is Gaga's vocals, her artistic vision, the way she is so hands on when she comes to creating music, her personality, the way she carries herself, her songwriting, and the way she will not stop until she has made the world a better place. Yeah Gaga has achieved everything and probably slighty more than what Madonna has, but Gaga to me just has something much more attractive to her than what Madonna had (not talking about looks here). There's something so pure and so authentic when it comes to Gaga, and I never got that from Madonna at all. Gaga to me has the full package while achieving everything Madonna has achieved in less time. Gaga will be remembered as one of the greatest, talented and versatile popstars/musicians to ever grace this earth, and I don't think its too early to say that. You're right, I agree with all that you've said Madonna paved the way and will always be the original 'main pop girl', but Gaga really ran with it and elevated it and raised the standards by virtually every measure. There will never be another Gaga. subtext / fantasy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperballad 4,309 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just came to stop by and say Madonna is the greatest pop star to ever exist and will FOREVER be the greatest pop star to ever exist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresco 1,688 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 I like the OP list. I might add Hanna Montanna/Miley Cyrus. Anyone see her Easter pictures on twitter. There are many popstars that could get a mention, but ... Cher for iconic performances and the kids today have no idea how much impact the Sonny and Cher show had on culture in its day. Kelly Clarkson with her ground breaking American idol fame, longevity, and a talk show now. Though she is more country than pop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T3ARS 4,132 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Michael Madonna Prince Whitney Mariah Time will tell if the stars of our genreation will be remembered as legends like those mentioned above. It is not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize, accept, and celebrate those differences. - Audre Lorde Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsy101 5,453 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 12 hours ago, OMonster said: Yeah, Beyonce is undeniably one of the greatest performers of our time (up there with MJ) - but she doesn't write, doesn't play an instrument, didn't have a moment that singlehandedly redefined culture and doesn't have the same raw, artistic talent as the others on the list. Beyonce is, imo at least, the perfect, manufactured pop artist. She is THE pop star, along with early Britney - though, of course, Beyonce had / has a far more impressive voice. But she / they do not compare, musically or artistically, to artists like MJ, Madonna, Freddie, Gaga ect. girl Beyonce does write and plays the piano, plus she has had many moments that defines culture: kanye interrupting taylor to defend beyonce, that moment in the elevator, dropping both her last two albums unexpectedly. don’t play like Beyoncé does not have a legacy in pop culture wtf plus the bitch has sang and danced her ass off for over 25 years and looked damn good doing it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
I LOVE GGD 1,247 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylucifer 5,133 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 hours ago, JRCF29 said: - Pollstar Award for Best Pop Tour of 2019/Great dancer/Excellent outfits/Incorporates aerial routines/Puts on a complete SHOW - Has never lip-synced/One of her shows was described by Adele as a defining moment of her life/Excellent range oh my god, yes, I went to one of her shows on her last tour and it was incredible The Tortured Poets Department is out NOW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylucifer 5,133 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 12 hours ago, BLACKPINK said: I'd say I really like the voice memos she did for 1989. I loved on how she incorporated the ballpen ting on Blank Space. Bitch, that was genius. The heartbeats on Wildest Dreams tho, wish she had a voice memo for that. YES, one of the most talented writers of this generation. Also very skinny how she dreams of things and uses them - I Did Something Bad and All You Had To Do Was Stay The Tortured Poets Department is out NOW Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQueenEnthusiast 937 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 It surprises me that some of you are putting ur C-rated fav vocalists on here but not Beyonce. BEYONCE. The category includes singing gays. SINGING. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyperballad 4,309 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, TheQueenEnthusiast said: It surprises me that some of you are putting ur C-rated fav vocalists on here but not Beyonce. BEYONCE. The category includes singing gays. SINGING. Beyoncé should absolutely be included Is writing included too? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQueenEnthusiast 937 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, Hyperballad said: Beyoncé should absolutely be included Is writing included too? Yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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