Buddy 5,686 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 hour ago, HybridAT said: Where did I call Biden progressive? At best, he's center left and more right to Bernie, Pete, Warren etc. That still doesn't change the fact that he's trying to improve things and running on a platform that's arguably more progressive than Obama 2008. And Trump is a literal fascist so I'm not sure what's the point you're trying to make. Joe Biden is center right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn MonHoe 11,011 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 10 hours ago, HybridAT said: Because Buttigieg had actual right-wing Republicans who supported him? Because he knew how to sell progressive policy ideas in a moderate tone and not make them feel insulted and not welcome in his movement? His whole candidacy was built upon inclusion and belonging and making people across the aisle feel welcomed. That's why he used to always say "future former Republicans" because he wanted to expand his coalition beyond just Democrats. Unlike Bernie who wanted to win with approx 30% support of his own base and failing to expand his ideological coalition The only policy Pete The Fraud Buttigieg tried to sell was his healthcare plan, which was not progressive . All the other times it was nothing but platitudes and long winded answers that never went anywhere. And don’t copy and paste his policies here because he almost never talked about them during the debates. (Some of those polices being copied from Bernie) ”Knew how to sell progressive policy ideas in a moderate tone.” That’s a funny way of saying: “Deceptively tried to co-opt the popularity of actual progressive policies like M4A to sell his moderate healthcare plan.” From lying about what his healthcare plan actually was to how he lied about his black politician support in S.C., almost everything about him was fake and deceptive. I can’t at a Buttigieg stan trying to go after Bernie for failing to expand his coalition when Pete was never able to expand his base beyond just white people. Or did you forget that fact? 10 hours ago, HybridAT said: There's a difference between voting for Trump out of spite or voting for Trump because they're more closer to his politics. But hey, at least you tried. Cute. Are you going to sit here and pretend that Bernie doesn’t appeal to Republicans? I guess you forgot about when Bernie had multiple town halls with Fox News and had their audiences cheering for him to the dismay of the moderators . Or when he was able to get a majority of Republicans to support M4A? Girl please. The fact that you have to try and revise history to prove a point. But what can you expect from a Buttigieg stan Either political candidates need to be able to reach out to voters for their support or they’re automatically entitled to them which gives way to voter shaming. Y’all moderates need to pick a narrative and stick with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid AT 78 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said: The only policy Pete The Fraud Buttigieg tried to sell was his healthcare plan, which was not progressive . All the other times it was nothing but platitudes and long winded answers that never went anywhere. And don’t copy and paste his policies here because he almost never talked about them during the debates. (Some of those polices being copied from Bernie) ”Knew how to sell progressive policy ideas in a moderate tone.” That’s a funny way of saying: “Deceptively tried to co-opt the popularity of actual progressive policies like M4A to sell his moderate healthcare plan.” From lying about what his healthcare plan actually was to how he lied about his black politician support in S.C., almost everything about him was fake and deceptive. I can’t at a Buttigieg stan trying to go after Bernie for failing to expand his coalition when Pete was never able to expand his base beyond just white people. Or did you forget that fact? Are you going to sit here and pretend that Bernie doesn’t appeal to Republicans? I guess you forgot about when Bernie had multiple town halls with Fox News and had their audiences cheering for him to the dismay of the moderators . Or when he was able to get a majority of Republicans to support M4A? Girl please. The fact that you have to try and revise history to prove a point. But what can you expect from a Buttigieg stan Either political candidates need to be able to reach out to voters for their support or they’re automatically entitled to them which gives way to voter shaming. Y’all moderates need to pick a narrative and stick with it. I talked about ideological coalition, not a racial coalition. Pete's coalition was ideologically pretty balanced. It wasn't diverse enough because minority voters and the broader electorate didn't know him enough and he hadn't run for president before and wasn't a senator or VP etc. But he did drop out when he saw no path to the nomination and gained the goodwill of voters to put party and country over his own ego unlike ahem, Bernie. It's a fact that nobody except Biden had the diverse winning coalition. SC, Michigan, Florida, Mississippi etc. proved that. It's sad that you and others who consistently accused him of speaking in "platitudes" (whatever the hell that means in a political context) lacked nuance to understand simple, basic political statements. Tsk tsk Hope you're enjoying losing the primary as you played your part to continue to alienate other Democrats who supported other candidates. Stay pressed and seethe because Bernie lost his last chance to become the President as the "revolution" never materialized in the numbers he needed while Pete will be a true force for the next many decades to come as his name recognition improves and he quite possibly gets a cabinet position in a Biden administration #FeelTheBern "I was protected by the monks of Azarath, I was raised by my friends. They are my family, this is my home and you are not welcome here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid AT 78 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 44 minutes ago, Buddy said: Joe Biden is center right. Um no lol he's center-left, public option, free public tuition on a sliding scale, bankruptcy and gun reforms are not center-right positions in any way, learn about the political spectrum first. Your support for Bernie doesn't make these aforementioned policy positions center-right. "I was protected by the monks of Azarath, I was raised by my friends. They are my family, this is my home and you are not welcome here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy 5,686 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, HybridAT said: Um no lol he's center-left, public option, free public tuition on a sliding scale, bankruptcy and gun reforms are not center-right positions in any way, learn about the political spectrum first. Your support for Bernie doesn't make these aforementioned policy positions center-right. Biden left on bankruptcy and student tuition? He was literally the person who made it so students can't file for bankruptcy to pay off their debt. LOL! Europe disagrees. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid AT 78 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Buddy said: Biden left on bankruptcy and student tuition? He was literally the person who made it so students can't file for bankruptcy to pay off their debt. LOL! Europe disagrees. I'm talking about his current policy platform. He co-opted Bernie and Warren's plans/bills. And the US isn't Europe. It's still a centre-right country so Biden's platform is center-left. "I was protected by the monks of Azarath, I was raised by my friends. They are my family, this is my home and you are not welcome here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bionic 50,111 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 I 100% support 'Bernie or bust'-type tactics. It is effective and gets results. Facts don't lie! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOSK 640 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 14 hours ago, MACATL said: cutting off your nose to spite your face. I was just getting ready to post that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy 5,686 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, HybridAT said: I'm talking about his current policy platform. He co-opted Bernie and Warren's plans/bills. And the US isn't Europe. It's still a centre-right country so Biden's platform is center-left. Biden has decades of fighting against the working class. What he says now to win doesn't erase that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid AT 78 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, Buddy said: Biden has decades of fighting against the working class. What he says now to win doesn't erase that. Bernie voted five times against the Brady Bill for background checks. Today he supports them wholeheartedly. Regardless of his intentions, it did harm thousands of people. Which one should I believe? People change. No politician has a spotless record. "I was protected by the monks of Azarath, I was raised by my friends. They are my family, this is my home and you are not welcome here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorusRa2 5,005 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 2 hours ago, HybridAT said: If you take your Bernie blinders off for a hot minute, you'd probably see things more objectively. But then you think Biden is just as bad as Trump. You also clearly never read Pete's plans ever, you're just regurgitating those same old, tired [insert popular left think-tank here a la Intercept, Current Affairs, TYT etc] points. You're clearly out of touch with reality so there's no point of a conversation here because that's just waste of both of our times. Stay safe and I wish you well. Ah, so because you don’t like my opinion, I’m automatically delusional and not worth conversations. But even the Washington Post agrees with what I said with regard to penalizing people who are uninsured. I’m sorry but you are the one that isn’t being objective with regard to Pete’s plan because you supported and idolized him as a candidate. Also, left-wing journalism isn’t worth the kind of dismissive attitude you are presenting here especially for a democrat. I’ve looked at Pete’s plan by the way & his plan is not the way forward for reasons I already explained. Also: if you go policy by policy Biden is not any better than Trump. I did, in my first post, concede that a Biden administration would be better than Trumps on some issues (especially social issues) but that both administrations would enrich their donors and continue the status quo with regard to wealth redistribution and taxes. Also, telling me you wish me well and to stay safe after basically saying I’m not worth your time doesn’t make you a better person. It makes you two-faced and unwilling to take criticism. https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2020/02/10/pete-buttigiegs-health-care-plan-is-a-joke/ https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/jgemeg/mayor-pete-buttigieg-health-plan-includes-retroactive-billing-enrollment https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/buttigieg-health-plan-hinges-on-supercharged-version-of-unpopular-obamacare-mandate/2019/12/24/415ae876-21bb-11ea-9146-6c3a3ab1be6c_story.html A backstop fund will reimburse health care providers for unpaid care to patients who are uninsured. Individuals with no coverage will be retroactively enrolled in the public option. By itself, this text raises more questions than it answers. It tells us clearly that uninsured people who show up to health care establishments will be cared for and that the government will pay for it. Then it tells us uninsured people will be retroactively enrolled. But does this mean only people who went to the doctor that year will be retroactively enrolled? In that case, it would never make sense for anyone to buy insurance because they could always wait and see if they need it and then get retroactively enrolled. Or does it mean all uninsured people will be retroactively enrolled, in which case this is just a sly way of saying Buttigieg’s proposal is a supercharged version of the wildly unpopular Obamacare individual mandate? Jeff Stein at the Washington Post got to the bottom of this question in Decemberand reported that it is the latter: the Obamacare mandate on steroids. Under Buttigieg’s plan, rather than paying a $695 fine at the end of the year if you are uninsured (as in the now-repealed Obamacare mandate), you could pay a fine as high as $7,000. This sort of lump sum shock is going to wreck most of the households hit with it and be even more of a political disaster than the much more modest Obamacare fine, which was itself a bit of a political disaster Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy 5,686 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 13 minutes ago, HybridAT said: Bernie voted five times against the Brady Bill for background checks. Today he supports them wholeheartedly. Regardless of his intentions, it did harm thousands of people. Which one should I believe? People change. No politician has a spotless record. Biden just admitted last week that he knew the Iraq war was based on lies but pushed for it anyway. MILLIONS DEAD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid AT 78 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 21 minutes ago, Buddy said: Biden just admitted last week that he knew the Iraq war was based on lies but pushed for it anyway. MILLIONS DEAD. Why are you continuing to move goalposts? What does that have to do with the original discussion? "I was protected by the monks of Azarath, I was raised by my friends. They are my family, this is my home and you are not welcome here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy 5,686 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 1 minute ago, HybridAT said: Why are you continuing to move goalposts? What does that have to do with the original discussion? Why are you inspired by two guys holding hands when babies are being blown to bits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hybrid AT 78 Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, Buddy said: Why are you inspired by two guys holding hands when babies are being blown to bits? What does that have to do with the original discussion either, that whether Biden's platform is center-left or center-right? Lol. Why is it that y'all like to conveniently shift goalposts when you run out of arguments? I supported Pete's candidacy for a multitude of reasons, including policy reasons and I'm in no way obligated to explain it to you. How about that? "I was protected by the monks of Azarath, I was raised by my friends. They are my family, this is my home and you are not welcome here." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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