15% of Bernie supporters say they'll vote for Trump

[Hybrid AT 78]

1 minute ago, Morphine Prince said:

The labels I used were correct. This is not what I’m talking about. 

IMO, no they were not. See below.

 

4 minutes ago, HybridAT said:

Let's use better labels for this context: Bernie and non-Bernie supporters, since there are progressives who support candidates not named Bernie and centrists who support Bernie.

 

[Morphine Prince 109,665]

Just now, HybridAT said:

IMO, no they were not. See below.

 

 

I don’t care about what you think about what I was saying. I am telling you what I’m referring to, and it’s not what you suggested. 

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

10 minutes ago, HybridAT said:

Let's use better labels for this context: Bernie and non-Bernie supporters, since ideological lines on the left are clearly not as well defined as you think they are. The whole primary has anyway  been about the Bernie vs. a Bernie alternative race. Plus, there are progressives who support candidates not named Bernie and centrists who support Bernie.

And non-Bernie supporters could literally use the same argument and say that Bernie supporters are more interested in defeating non-Bernie supporters, since the OP is about those 15% who would support Trump over Biden in a GE, in case you forgot.

Um... not possible. People misidentify themselves all the time. Everyone likes to think that theyre the sensible moderates in the world, but in the context of society, if you’re supporting Bernie, you’re a progressive.

We love to see it tho, no shame in not being a moderate.

We are interested in winning... but it’s clear neoliberals are mainly obsessed with beating Trump. It’s not an inspiring campaign message (see 2016) and that’s extremely problematic.

Nobody forgot about the main topic of the OP, we just already put that to rest. 

[Whispering 18,865]

36 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Centrists seem more passionate about defeating progressive candidates than they are about beating Trump sometimes. 

Probably cause the GOP makes them look better and progressive, meanwhile actual leftists show how flawed and mediocre their policies actually are. 

Edit: A Buttigieg stan “LMAO” ‘d this which proves me right. He was the epitome of mediocre. 

Not true. Sixty-five per cent of moderates stated that defeating Trump was their main concern. 

They didn't care as much about defeating Bernie, as much as they simply weren’t motivated to vote for him. 

[Whispering 18,865]

37 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

 

 Mrs. Cuomo being sick and not having the ability to bring progressives on his show... truly a tragedy.

 

Who is Mrs. Cuomo? 

What show does she have?

[Hybrid AT 78]

35 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

Um... not possible. People misidentify themselves all the time. Everyone likes to think that theyre the sensible moderates in the world, but in the context of society, if you’re supporting Bernie, you’re a progressive.

We love to see it tho, no shame in not being a moderate.

We are interested in winning... but it’s clear neoliberals are mainly obsessed with beating Trump. It’s not an inspiring campaign message (see 2016) and that’s extremely problematic.

Nobody forgot about the main topic of the OP, we just already put that to rest. 

Except that's not true. There are liberal Dems aka "centrists" who might just support Bernie for non-policy attributes. That they see him as a consistent man, with a solid ideology, that he's honest about his politics, that he understands the youth and the urgent issues, that he has moved the party to the left etc. In the same way, there are progressive voters who might support candidates other than Bernie like Pete, Warren etc. for their policy stances like Pete's stance on decriminalization of all drugs and structural democratic reform and Warren's wealth tax or anti-corruption bill etc.

It's not as black and white as you think. Voters just can't be boxed as centrists, progressives etc. so easily is the point I'm trying to make. In fact, the use of these political labels as an insult over the last few decades has made things even more complicated. People should not be villifying each other just because they differ in their political views. It creates a sanctimonious air around it where you see your own politics as holier-than-thou and view others as inferior to you. It makes political discourse unnecessarily toxic.

You can make points without insulting those who don't agree with you politically, or in some cases literally wishing death upon people, like it happened with me a few pages back right in this thread. But maybe it's too hard a concept for some to understand, idk. 

[Chromatican 4,046]

Me at Bidenites and the DNC after Trump becomes the first impeached president to win re-election and the progressive faction of the Democratic party becomes even more disillusioned:

 

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

6 minutes ago, HybridAT said:

Except that's not true. There are liberal Dems aka "centrists" who might just support Bernie for non-policy attributes. That they see him as a consistent man, with a solid ideology, that he's honest about his politics, that he understands the youth and the urgent issues, that he has moved the party to the left etc. In the same way, there are progressive voters who might support candidates other than Bernie like Pete, Warren etc. for their policy stances like Pete's stance on decriminalization of all drugs and structural democratic reform and Warren's wealth tax or anti-corruption bill etc.

It's not as black and white as you think. Voters just can't be boxed as centrists, progressives etc. so easily is the point I'm trying to make. In fact, the use of these political labels as an insult over the last few decades has made things even more complicated. People should not be villifying each other just because they differ in their political views. It creates a sanctimonious air around it where you see your own politics as holier-than-thou and view others as inferior to you. It makes political discourse unnecessarily toxic.

You can make points without insulting those who don't agree with you politically, or in some cases literally wishing death upon people, like it happened with me a few pages back right in this thread. But maybe it's too hard a concept for some to understand, idk. 

Um I’m sorry what? Can you list some non-policy reasons people would support Bernie? The rest of that paragraph are the policy reasons people love him. I know it’s not black and white and there’s different types of progressive but Bernie is a democratic socialist that pushes progressive populist-left ideas - his campaign is pretty unique aside from Warren

Girl idk who wished you death a few pages back but yeah that’s really ****ing rude and I’m not here for it. Report ha. Neoliberal is not an insult tho. There’s just an extreme negative connotation around it, bc it’s the train of thought that has lead to the income inequality we have today, extreme socialism for the rich, and has sent good jobs away across seas for slave wages.

I see the tea. Y’all are most here for the cultural issues, and that’s fine but it’s not the full picture. Joe Biden says he thinks healthcare is a human right but doesn’t support medicare for all. He thinks climate change is real but is against the Green New Deal.

He’s just not willing to stand up against the donors who put these harmful systems in power in the first place, and that’s my whole issue. Bernie and Joe probably agree on every cultural issue (gay/trans rights, abortion, immigration reform, good education for all). So many have died waiting for “the next election. Just have this small step that doesn’t fix things right away not bc it’s not possible, it’s bc people won’t fight for it.”

How many more lives have to suffer and or die? It’s so tragic...

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

29 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Who is Mrs. Cuomo? 

What show does she have?

We- I’m talking about Chris Cuomo on CNN lol. Gays add Mrs. to stuff sometimes as a joke. I know his real pronouns

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

Aww look at you trying to act all cute and smart when YOU have always been the one to use personal insults first (not my first encounter with you) to shame Buttigieg and his supporters. I also saw you roaming around in Warren threads calling her a snake etc. Archetypal toxic Bernie Bro.

Lol girl please. I have never called Warren a snake. Imagine having to resort to lies because you can’t substantiate your claims 

Whatever shaming I’ve done has been a response to the nastiness of users like you. Literally look at your first post in this thread. Nasty and rude. With the way you expose yourself I don’t have to do a thing. I guess the hypocrisy comes with a lack of self awareness 

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

The only reason Pete didn't win this time was because enough voters didn't know the mayor of fourth largest town of Indiana and chose an ex-VP and a two-time presidential candidate over him. Yet he still managed to change the perception about LGBTQ+ candidates in national politics, became the first openly gay candidate to win a presidential primary state and secure delegates AND amassed over 1M donors and 2M+ donations in less than a year. But you probably won't understand that because you're too busy hating him and the progress he made. You also really don't have to minimize the progress of other candidates to validate the progress made by your own. A concept probably too hard for you to understand  

Pete lost because he was unable to connect to POC because of his various controversies including firing his town’s first black police chief and terrible race relations with his town. How can someone be president of one of the most diverse nations in the world when they can’t even handle a small town? Just like a moderate to only talk about the struggles of POC to score cheap political points and sweep them under the rug when they’re no longer needed. You should know the main reason why Buttigieg lost but I guess not everybody has the intelligence for critical thinking 

 

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

I've always credited Bernie for his ideas and have always commended him for shifting the Overton window. Check my posts. As I said earlier, great ideas, terrible politics. He just didn't know how to expand his support beyond  I just don't agree with his politics because I don't believe he can achieve his goals and his campaign's and his supporters' rhetoric didn't ever help him either and made his movement more toxic and alienating as time passed. 

Great we can agree on something! Except for the part in bold. Bernie’s movement was based on pulling in working class men and women along with all people of different races into his coalition. It’s why at one point he had the most donations of Latinos and women across the board. Focusing on his subset of toxic supporters is pointless as I have seen plenty of nasty moderates all over Twitter. Some called for Bernie’s death and made voodoo dolls with his face on them.... truly depraved stuff.

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

And there's literally other Bernie supporters in this same thread that are chastising those 15% and rejecting them for not being part of their movement because it's common sense that if they believe in progressive policies they shouldn't be voting for Trump and aren't in it for the right reasons. But you feel okay with that and are quick to point me out and conflate that with "voter shaming". Maybe you're a cosplay socialist too after all, not that I care in the least  

Those other Bernie supporters said that this 15% does not represent the rest of his supporters. That’s different from saying that they’re immature and childish. That is literally voter shaming, which you’ve done on multiple occasions. Do I seriously need to explain the difference? Yikes.

 

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

How are the rat and snake emojis working for you again mr. another-leftist-keyboard-warrior-who-excels-at-coalition-building? Cry more please, I think you're coping reaaally well with Bernie losing the primary. Keep it up.  

But again, what do you expect from a toxic Bernie stan (except oodles of delusion, hypocrisy and gaslighting)?  

I’ve never used those emojis so I wouldn’t know. Again more lying

I know that Bernie is going to lose and I’ve never stated the opposite. Unlike you when I saw that my candidate was losing I accepted it and moved on.

How on earth can you berate someone for being toxic when you’re one of the most toxic users on this site... the lack of self awareness.

When arguing with someone who supports a fraud like Buttigieg, it should be no surprise that they project their hypocrisy, delusion and try to gaslight you. At least you tried 

[Whispering 18,865]

33 minutes ago, StarstruckIllusion said:

We- I’m talking about Chris Cuomo on CNN lol. Gays add Mrs. to stuff sometimes as a joke. I know his real pronouns

You are joking about him having Coronavirus?

Classy.

[StarstruckIllusion 53,565]

3 minutes ago, Whispering said:

You are joking about him having Coronavirus?

Classy.

w h a t

no.

the pronoun thing. not the virus (which he actually does have) 

[Hybrid AT 78]

6 minutes ago, Marilyn MonHoe said:

Lol girl please. I have never called Warren a snake. Imagine having to resort to lies because you can’t substantiate your claims 

Whatever shaming I’ve done has been a response to the nastiness of users like you. Literally look at your first post in this thread. Nasty and rude. With the way you expose yourself I don’t have to do a thing. I guess the hypocrisy comes with a lack of self awareness 

Pete lost because he was unable to connect to POC because of his various controversies including firing his town’s first black police chief and terrible race relations with his town. How can someone be president of one of the most diverse nations in the world when they can’t even handle a small town? Just like a moderate to only talk about the struggles of POC to score cheap political points and sweep them under the rug when they’re no longer needed. You should know the main reason why Buttigieg lost but I guess not everybody has the intelligence for critical thinking 

 

Great we can agree on something! Except for the part in bold. Bernie’s movement was based on pulling in working class men and women along with all people of different races into his coalition. It’s why at one point he had the most donations of Latinos and women across the board. Focusing on his subset of toxic supporters is pointless as I have seen plenty of nasty moderates all over Twitter. Some called for Bernie’s death and made voodoo dolls with his face on them.... truly depraved stuff.

 

Those other Bernie supporters said that this 15% does not represent the rest of his supporters. That’s different from saying that they’re immature and childish. That is literally  voter shaming, which you’ve done on multiple occasions. Do I seriously need to explain the difference? Yikes.

 

I’ve never used those emojis so I wouldn’t know. Again more lying

I know that Bernie is going to lose and I’ve never stated the opposite. Unlike you when I saw that my candidate was losing I accepted it and moved on.
 

How on earth can you berate someone for being toxic when you’re one of the most toxic users on this site... the lack of self awareness.

When arguing with someone who supports a fraud like Buttigieg, it should be no surprise that they project their hypocrisy, delusion and try to gaslight you. At least you tried 

– I would have never tried to be combative in tone with the Bernie supporters on this website here if they didn't try to ALWAYS be patronizing and condescending, saying some really dehumanizing **** to Pete and his supporters. The toxicity from YOUR camp has inured me and I reject to be civil when I or my fellow supporters have never been treated with some basic human decency and respect just because we didn't support your candidate

– Again, NO. You're completely ignoring his lack of name recognition among voters and overestimating the effect of the controversy that never resonated beyond Twitter and NYT, WaPo columns. Majority of black voters didn't know him and didn't think he was ready for. His city, like every other city, reeled under consequences of systemic racism. It did have racial problems, sure. But that's not why he failed to garner the vote from the black community. If you think he was a known face among voters in just a year, you couldn't be more delusional. And he did make efforts towards diversity and inclusion in his city, which is all documented in this fully-sourced medium article. Feel free to take your time and go through ALL of it. You spent more time hating him based on what was fed to you by biased media sources that created false narratives and misrepresented SB's story and not talking to actual SB residents like @En_Sabah_Nur. I did my research and you didn't. I talked to actual residents of that same city that you talk about based on the false narrative that the media fed you incessantly. So consider shutting up until you actually do your research.

https://medium.com/@JS_M/a-comprehensive-list-of-pete-buttigiegs-efforts-to-promote-racial-justice-and-equity-in-south-bend-f36195648f04

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/pete-buttigieg-black-support-south-bend

– It's a consistent pattern with only his support group and that's why there are literally hundreds and thousands of articles to comb through of his toxic supporters doxxing, harassing, cyberbullying people, sending deaths threats etc. As for the voodoo stuff, that is depraved and I do condemn it. But like Pete said, leadership isn't just about policy, it's also about what you bring out in people. And Bernie does bring out the worst in people consistently. That's also why people don't feel welcomed enough to join his toxic movement and a huge reason why he lost. Even your beloved hero AOC doesn't feel that's the best way to build coalitions which is why she's distancing herself from his campaign lately.

– Um I accepted Pete's loss the minute he dropped out of the race so I'm not sure what this is about. He always was a long shot for the presidency and still managed to win a presidential primary state and get delegates and made history. Too bad your hate for him has consumed you so much that it made you belittle all those achievements. What a truly sad, sad life.

Anyway, this is going to continue to go around in circles and will be a chicken-egg problem with the two of us blaming each other forever. For me, you're not worth having a conversation with any further because you're clearly more interested in name calling than substantive political discourse and have always been about that from your posts about other candidates since last year. Enjoy your life being a bitter person. Muting you now.

Bye.

 

[Morphine Prince 109,665]

I-

Us leaving this thread like: 

 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

– I would have never tried to be combative in tone with the Bernie supporters on this website here if they didn't try to ALWAYS be patronizing and condescending, saying some really dehumanizing **** to Pete and his supporters. The toxicity from YOUR camp has inured me and I reject to be civil when I or my fellow supporters have never been treated with some basic human decency and respect just because we didn't support your candidate

Lol what a load of garbage. I can’t believe one of the most combative and aggressively nasty people on this site is playing the victim. I’ve seen it all. Again look at your first post and see how belligerent and rude it is. Nobody quoted you, you just decided to be that way with no provocation. So spare me with your hysteria.

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

Again, NO. You're completely ignoring his lack of name recognition among voters and overestimating the effect of the controversy that never resonated beyond Twitter and NYT, WaPo columns. Majority of black voters didn't know him and didn't think he was ready for. His city, like every other city, reeled under consequences of systemic racism. It did have racial problems, sure. But that's not why he failed to garner the vote from the black community. If you think he was a known face among voters in just a year, you couldn't be more delusional. And he did make efforts towards diversity and inclusion in his city, which is all documented in this fully-sourced medium article. Feel free to take your time and go through ALL of it. You spent more time hating him based on what was fed to you by biased media sources that created false narratives and misrepresented SB's story and not talking to actual SB residents like @En_Sabah_Nur. I did my research and you didn't. I talked to actual residents of that same city that you talk about based on the false narrative that the media fed you incessantly. So consider shutting up until you actually do your research.

https://medium.com/@JS_M/a-comprehensive-list-of-pete-buttigiegs-efforts-to-promote-racial-justice-and-equity-in-south-bend-f36195648f04

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/pete-buttigieg-black-support-south-bend

I recognize the fact that his low name recognition went into him losing but to discount the various racial controversies as if they weren’t a big factor in his loss is delusional. The black residents of South Bend are not happy with Pete and the way he has done things. Do their voices not matter just because they’re not singing his praises? What a way to silence the voices of POC. How very moderate of you.

Yes I’m sure one of the most ardent supporters of Buttigieg is going to get the full unbiased scoop on what’s really happening in South Bend. And telling me to shut up? I thought that I was the toxic one and you were the paragon of decency and respect? 

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

Um I accepted Pete's loss the minute he dropped out of the race so I'm not sure what this is about. He always was a long shot for the presidency and still managed to win a presidential primary state and get delegates and made history. Too bad your hate for him has consumed you so much that it made you belittle all those achievements. What a truly sad, sad life.

I’m talking about how it was apparent that Pete was never going to win based off of his low support among POC. It was obvious to any rational person. You cannot be the Democratic nominee with utterly abysmal numbers among POC. But as delusional as it was, you continued thinking that he was going to increase his numbers somehow. Here’s a tip: Don’t lie about your support among black politicians and then try to brush it off like it was nothing.

Too bad you tried to spread lies about me and then dropped them once you were confronted. Imagine having to spread slander about someone in order to prove some false point. What a sad pathetic way to live honestly.

2 hours ago, HybridAT said:

Anyway, this is going to continue to go around in circles and will be a chicken-egg problem with the two of us blaming each other forever. For me, you're not worth having a conversation with any further because you're clearly more interested in name calling than substantive political discourse and have always been about that from your posts about other candidates since last year. Enjoy your life being a bitter person. Muting you now.

Bye.

Name calling? You mean the thing that you did in your first post of this thread? I honestly don’t understand how you can call people out for the same thing you did literally in your first post like... where is the logic or self awareness?

I have had plenty of substantive political discourse on this site. Most Bernie supporters have. A lot of moderates go into threads calling Bernie supporters BeRnIe BrOs and then when we respond, we’re made out to be villains. If there’s something moderates love to do it’s to gaslight, voter shame and preach as if they have some kind of moral high ground.

Also I’d like to point out that it’s funny that you told me to stop crying over Bernie (with no evidence) when you’ve been crying over Buttigieg for 3 pages now. Girl he lost idk why you’re still defending him. Get a grip, get a life and get over it.

Enjoy being nasty, bathing in your hypocrisy and being an all around terrible person. 

But seeing as how you’re a Buttigieg stan, I never had high hopes for you to begin with