Canada Says Won't Do Lockdown Restrictions Right Now

[OBEY 57,109]

Quebec just announced that schools are closed til May1st and just announced all malls, hair salons, etc. are closed.

Also, public gatherings are banned and yesterday in Quebec City alone police arrested people at like 15 parties during the evening - people are calling and denouncing and taking action and im here for it !

[jezze0410 395]

1 hour ago, Economy said:

So what's the strategy exactly?

I’ll try to summarise it the best I can, but that website explains things far better!

The core assumption is that there are so many cases internationally that it is impossible that the virus will go away; it will likely join the seasonal strains of coronaviruses. And modelling has shown that 60-80% of the population will become infected at one point or another, so the focus is on completely isolating the old and vulnerable (the UK has gone further than other countries in this regard, with the NHS contacting millions to tell them self isolate for 12 weeks) and, as all other countries are doing, trying to flatten the peak. 

There has been some domestic criticism about the lack of testing, but given the likely very high number of asymptomatic and mild cases and that the most vulnerable are already isolated, mass testing is frankly not terribly useful and is a waste of resources; What is more useful is an antibody test that shows whether you have had it, so more reliable data about mortality rates and immunity can be gathered, and it is development of such a test that is the UK’s primary research objective in the short term. 

The UK has also been very particular about when restrictive policies are signalled and announced (notice how all of the UK’s restrictions have been signalled quite far in advance of the announcements themselves, but are implemented almost immediately after the announcements; this is partly to prevent a scenario like Hong Kong’s, where a new wave of the virus was triggered due to masses of people rushing back before new quarantining measures were in place), and how (there are fascinating sections in the behavioural science evidence papers on the government website about how some ambiguities in the phrasing of recommendations/restrictions make people more willing to follow them, and how citizens’ perceptions of the UK’s response relative to other countries’ will influence policy efficacy). They have extensively modelled how different restrictive policies (enforced isolation, school closures, curfews etc) and different combinations of these policies affect the virus’s spread, and are keen not to introduce them too early; simply put, if a combination of measures is modelled to reduce the rate of spreading by 10%, doing so when the rate is high is more effective than when it is low. The government plans on adding to and removing from these restrictions and varying the level of enforcement basically until the end of the year, rather than having cycles of complete lockdowns followed by a new wave of the virus when restrictions are lifted. 

I have barely touched on all of the nuances of the UK’s position, but it’s already a far longer post than I had anticipated; I’ve also imbibed a considerable amount this evening  so I probably haven’t laid out my points as clearly as I could have, for which I apologise  Do read the research papers though!

[Economy 52,928]

28 minutes ago, jezze0410 said:

I’ll try to summarise it the best I can, but that website explains things far better!

The core assumption is that there are so many cases internationally that it is impossible that the virus will go away; it will likely join the seasonal strains of coronaviruses. And modelling has shown that 60-80% of the population will become infected at one point or another, so the focus is on completely isolating the old and vulnerable (the UK has gone further than other countries in this regard, with the NHS contacting millions to tell them self isolate for 12 weeks) and, as all other countries are doing, trying to flatten the peak. 

There has been some domestic criticism about the lack of testing, but given the likely very high number of asymptomatic and mild cases and that the most vulnerable are already isolated, mass testing is frankly not terribly useful and is a waste of resources; What is more useful is an antibody test that shows whether you have had it, so more reliable data about mortality rates and immunity can be gathered, and it is development of such a test that is the UK’s primary research objective in the short term. 

The UK has also been very particular about when restrictive policies are signalled and announced (notice how all of the UK’s restrictions have been signalled quite far in advance of the announcements themselves, but are implemented almost immediately after the announcements; this is partly to prevent a scenario like Hong Kong’s, where a new wave of the virus was triggered due to masses of people rushing back before new quarantining measures were in place), and how (there are fascinating sections in the behavioural science evidence papers on the government website about how some ambiguities in the phrasing of recommendations/restrictions make people more willing to follow them, and how citizens’ perceptions of the UK’s response relative to other countries’ will influence policy efficacy). They have extensively modelled how different restrictive policies (enforced isolation, school closures, curfews etc) and different combinations of these policies affect the virus’s spread, and are keen not to introduce them too early; simply put, if a combination of measures is modelled to reduce the rate of spreading by 10%, doing so when the rate is high is more effective than when it is low. The government plans on adding to and removing from these restrictions and varying the level of enforcement basically until the end of the year, rather than having cycles of complete lockdowns followed by a new wave of the virus when restrictions are lifted. 

I have barely touched on all of the nuances of the UK’s position, but it’s already a far longer post than I had anticipated; I’ve also imbibed a considerable amount this evening  so I probably haven’t laid out my points as clearly as I could have, for which I apologise  Do read the research papers though!

A lot of this kind of goes in line with what I think too tbh

 

Ppl use the argument lives matter more than economy and while I agree, it doesn't mean much if the majority of ppl will still get it regardless and mass lockdowns don't erradicate the virus

 

The goal should be to flatten the curve to prevent a sudden spike in healthcare demand and as much protection of the elderly as possible

 

Being realistic on the situation I believe that should be our goal

 

What else are we supposed to do? Stay on total lock down for an entire year until we get vaccines? That's not realistic in the slightest. Even the few weeks we plan restrictions here in Canada (that isn't even a full blown lockdown) will require a dificit to sustain economy worth 10 years of previous budget surpluses

 

How are we supposed to last a whole year. Poverty kills too in case ppl forgot

[blankpaper 21]

18 minutes ago, Economy said:

How are we supposed to last a whole year. Poverty kills too in case ppl forgot

Im kind of expecting there to be two big waves of suicides due to this—there’s going to be so many people who lose their businesses, their homes, can’t feed their family, bankrupted, etc. 

[Economy 52,928]

Just now, blankpaper said:

Im kind of expecting there to be two big waves of suicides due to this—there’s going to be so many people who lose their businesses, their homes, can’t feed their family, bankrupted, etc. 

Yeah the big picture has to be considered

 

Poverty ruins people's lives too and deaths related to poverty in some way shape or form directly or indirectly do unfortunately occur

 

We have to consider the damage of our measures as well and look at the big picture. Simply looking at the benefits of reduced rate of spread alone doesn't tell u the whole story. U can't look at it from only one angle

 

Measures are important but when Governments decide how long and how agressively it's important they consider EVERYTHING 

[MissKombucha 308]

8 hours ago, Economy said:

Yeah the big picture has to be considered

 

Poverty ruins people's lives too and deaths related to poverty in some way shape or form directly or indirectly do unfortunately occur

 

We have to consider the damage of our measures as well and look at the big picture. Simply looking at the benefits of reduced rate of spread alone doesn't tell u the whole story. U can't look at it from only one angle

 

Measures are important but when Governments decide how long and how agressively it's important they consider EVERYTHING 

But it’s such a difficult issue to handle because you also have to worry about the immunocompromised — and that’s so difficult to determine for yourself or loved ones. One of the deaths in New Jersey was of a 24-year old who his family and physicians weren’t aware that he in-fact had leukemia — it had never been diagnosed ! So it’s not just about the elderly — but ... How do you flatten the curve but maintain a functioning economy and do it while waiting for a vaccine or effective treatments against the ailment ? It’s essentially juggling knives blindfolded on a rope about to snap — 

based on the brief description of the UK does that mean they’ll have a lockdown , then a reopening , then a lock down again, so on and so forth until a vaccine is made ??

thank god we already have the genetic sequence of the virus and that it’s 80% identical to SARS reason being vaccines were able to be developed so quickly .. now we wait for testing and peer reviews ... imagine had it been something completely novel — we’d have thrown in the towel then 

 

 

[PartySick 173,156]

11 hours ago, Modern Ecstasy2 said:

A lot of people where I live are still taking it like a complete joke meanwhile there are over 400 confirmed cases in my province (which is very low on a global scale, but still). I don’t know what the solution is but very severe restrictions being put in place.

Cases exploded in Miami and because our governor refused to close the beaches, bars, restaurants, etc all those spring breakers are heading back to their home towns carrying the virus with them.

I know Washington and NYC are like the biggest hotspots but I really do believe Florida is the closest thing to herpes a country can have

[PartySick 173,156]

They need to just shut everything down.

Two weeks is long enough to dramatically slow transmission, give a lot of people time to recover, and give people who were unknowingly infected time to present symptoms and seek treatment.

People just need to stop being stupid.

Have they not heard doctors describing what happens to a person who goes through the worst of what this virus can do?  if you don't drown in your own blood, you die from a bacterial infection that spreads from your lungs to the rest of your body

Can't your clubbing and sh*t be put on hold long enough to prevent that?

[Economy 52,928]

9 hours ago, PartySick said:

They need to just shut everything down.

Two weeks is long enough to dramatically slow transmission, give a lot of people time to recover, and give people who were unknowingly infected time to present symptoms and seek treatment.

People just need to stop being stupid.

Have they not heard doctors describing what happens to a person who goes through the worst of what this virus can do?  if you don't drown in your own blood, you die from a bacterial infection that spreads from your lungs to the rest of your body

Can't your clubbing and sh*t be put on hold long enough to prevent that?

2 weeks would slow it down big time but the moment restrictions are lifted it will just spread like wildfire again

 

I don't know what the answer is here we seem to be damned either way.

 

Don't shut down society and it spreads... Keep it shut for months and the economy collapses

 

 

[OBEY 57,109]

9 hours ago, PartySick said:

They need to just shut everything down.

Each Province is already doing it by themselves  

Clubs, restaurants, hair salons, malls, schools, public gatherings, events, etc. are all closed/banned in the Province of Quebec. 

[Fuffy 1,049]

21 hours ago, Economy said:

The mayor of Toronto was pissed because Toronto put in their own lockdown measures that go beyond the minimums that the Province of Ontario set and some people aren't listening

 

For exame this EB Games store stayed open after the city mandated all non-essential businesses close and he dragged the sh*t out of them

 

He's like "games aren't an essential business and they aren't listening etc". I mean id be mad too if I was him

Yep, Toronto is dead here.

I will say I'm very impressed by how serious this city is taking it. But it really does suck. 

[Peroxide555 587]

21 hours ago, Economy said:

Is the UK Centralized like most of Europe or Decentralized like US & Canada?

 

I assume England, Scotland and Whales each have their autonomies. What about regions within those regions?

Sis don't disrespect my country with that spelling

[Economy 52,928]

1 hour ago, Peroxide555 said:

Sis don't disrespect my country with that spelling

How do u spell it? I guess its Wales? Only other spelling that makes sense

 

To be fair, Canada is spelt incorrectly cuz the whites that cames here messed up the name 

[MissKombucha 308]

3 hours ago, Economy said:

2 weeks would slow it down big time but the moment restrictions are lifted it will just spread like wildfire again

 

I don't know what the answer is here we seem to be damned either way.

 

Don't shut down society and it spreads... Keep it shut for months and the economy collapses

 

 

And an economic collapse means MORE dead as there’s no jobs no food no security looting riots theft violence murder and suicide 

if the series of treatments that have been touted for the last few weeks work then we can essentially reduce this thing to a bad flu — let’s hope that’s what we can weaken it to until a vaccine is available 

[CELINE 747]

B.C. needs a stricter policy because people in here are not taking it seriously. 

We've closed a few parks and that's about it.