DeleteMyAccount 11,881 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 1 minute ago, LilyLark said: It's always hard to defeat an incumbent with a good economy...even if it's a monster like Trump. As sad as it is, the one reason (regardless of who is the Democratic candidate) Trump may lose is if he keeps botching the corona virus response...and not because he's a racist, stupid egomaniac. It might be his "Katrina." But at this point, I do think it's better to be positive that Bernie and/or Biden can win. I think Biden can take NC if the turnout remains high in the general (also, the polling for the senate race is showing the Dem candidate ahead by several points)....and it's basically game over for Trump if that happens. Bloomberg is also setting up offices in NC to juice turnout...and I think Bernie can take IA and WI...which will be game over for Trump in that scenario. My main worry is the media...the NYT is awful to any Dem (be it Biden or Bernie)...and centrists staying home if it's Bernie and leftists staying home if it's Biden. I hope to god they both pick VPs who appeal to the other side....Biden could go with Gwen Moore (very progressive, shares like 97% of Bernie's ideals...and is also a popular Black congresswoman from Milwaukee who can juice turnout in that area). I know a lot Bernie supporters despise Kamala and Amy K, but both of them would be good running mates for him as a counterbalance. She represents me. Would not be a terrible idea, strategy wise. I mean, Dems need to hit the Midwest hard this time around. 64k votes! I still think Trump large won because people had the "lessor of two evils" mindset and picked him.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyLark 10,213 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, FeelTheBern said: He said the same things about castro that Obama did in 2008 why are people blowing this up bigger then it actually is? Because it's timing! I understand what he is saying....but you don't say that sh*t before an election. Obama tried to unfreeze relations with Cuba late in his second term when he made similar comments...not in '08....and the comments he made in '08 about Cuba were way milder than what Bernie said. And yes it is cynical but being "pure" to your beliefs means you may hurt your chance to win and then make actual change. All he had to do was say "Castro made great strides in developing literacy, but unfortunately people can't put those skills to use because of the extreme censorship of the free press in Cuba." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheBern 371 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, LilyLark said: Because it's timing! I understand what he is saying....but you don't say that sh*t before an election. Obama tried to unfreeze relations with Cuba late in his second term when he made similar comments...not in '08....and the comments he made in '08 about Cuba were way milder than what Bernie said. And yes it is cynical but being "pure" to your beliefs means you may hurt your chance to win and then make actual change. All he had to do was say "Castro made great strides in developing literacy, but unfortunately people can't put those skills to use because of the extreme censorship of the free press in Cuba." I was wrong on the date Obama made those comments in 2016 but what he said was identical to Bernie. He praised there healthcare system and there education system just like Bernie. Back in the 1980s, Sanders had some positive things to say about the former Soviet Union and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Here he is explaining why the Cuban people didn’t rise up and help the U.S. overthrow Cuban leader Fidel Castro: “He educated their kids, gave them health care, totally transformed the society, you know?” Bernie Sanders: We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but, you know, it’s unfair to simply say everything is bad, you know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it? Anderson Cooper: A lot of p— dissidents imprisoned in, in Cuba. Bernie Sanders: That’s right. And we condemn that. Unlike Donald Trump. Let’s be clear, you want to — I do not think that Kim Jong-un is a good friend. I don’t trade love letters with a murdering dictator. Vladimir Putin, not a great friend of mine. Here is what Obama had to say about Cuba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyLark 10,213 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, ZacharyMark said: She represents me. Would not be a terrible idea, strategy wise. I mean, Dems need to hit the Midwest hard this time around. 64k votes! I still think Trump large won because people had the "lessor of two evils" mindset and picked him.. She's a good pick, regardless, but Gwen Moore might also win over some positive press from the Intercept/Jacobin/TYT crowd...which could trickle down to some of the Bernie folks who might not come out. Same thing would happen if Bernie picks a moderate...he'd get some praise in the MSM and it might sway some folks. I completely agree that the Midwest needs to be hit hard...also, NC. I think people just gave up after Obama lost NC in 2012, but between the recent turnout and the polling it's definitely a possibility...I think it will be easier to flip blue than FL and IA. I despise Bloomberg, but at the same time am strangely grateful that he's pouring money into operations in FL/IA/WI/PA/NC/AZ for the election be it Bernie or Biden. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyLark 10,213 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, FeelTheBern said: I was wrong on the date Obama made those comments in 2016 but what he said was identical to Bernie. He praised there healthcare system and there education system just like Bernie. Back in the 1980s, Sanders had some positive things to say about the former Soviet Union and the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. Here he is explaining why the Cuban people didn’t rise up and help the U.S. overthrow Cuban leader Fidel Castro: “He educated their kids, gave them health care, totally transformed the society, you know?” Bernie Sanders: We’re very opposed to the authoritarian nature of Cuba, but, you know, it’s unfair to simply say everything is bad, you know? When Fidel Castro came into office, you know what he did? He had a massive literacy program. Is that a bad thing? Even though Fidel Castro did it? Anderson Cooper: A lot of p— dissidents imprisoned in, in Cuba. Bernie Sanders: That’s right. And we condemn that. Unlike Donald Trump. Let’s be clear, you want to — I do not think that Kim Jong-un is a good friend. I don’t trade love letters with a murdering dictator. Vladimir Putin, not a great friend of mine. Here is what Obama had to say about Cuba. I agree that Bernie and Obama's comments were pretty similar....that's why I mentioned timing. Bernie needed to say it after the election or in the midst of establishing diplomatic times...not now. He could have framed it in far more measured terms now and been less cautious once he was elected. Obama's comments in '08, when he was trying to beat Hillary, were was more cautious and measured...his comments in '14/'15 were not. There are a lot of Warren supporters (and Bernie supporters) who sincerely like Bernie but find this sort of thing frustrating. I honestly believe Ro Khanna can help Bernie's campaign though with these sort of missteps.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheBern 371 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Just now, LilyLark said: I agree that Bernie and Obama's comments were pretty similar....that's why I mentioned timing. Bernie needed to say it after the election or in the midst of establishing diplomatic times...not now. He could have framed it in far more measured terms now and been less cautious once he was elected. Obama's comments in '08, when he was trying to beat Hillary, were was more cautious and measured. There are a lot of Warren supporters (and Bernie supporters) who sincerely like Bernie but find this sort of thing frustrating. To be fair the timing wasn't really Bernie's choice someone brought up his comments of Cuba in the 80's so he defended his comments. But I will agree the timing is bad for Sanders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adakam 2 Posted March 7, 2020 Author Share Posted March 7, 2020 41 minutes ago, FeelTheBern said: He said the same things about castro that Obama did in 2008 why are people blowing this up bigger then it actually is? Because all the people who are fearful of socialism because of countries like Venezuela, have this paranoia that all socialists are interconnected somehow, and if you say one good thing about one then it must mean that you want to turn your country into Venezuela 2.0. The exact same thing happened to Mexico's current president too during his campaign, he said one good thing about Castro and he said that he wouldnt intervene in Venezuela, and his entire opposition jumped to use it against him, saying he would turn Mexico into Venezuela 2.0. So, the anti-socialism agenda is something that blew up in recent years, fair or unfair, right or wrong, Bernie shot himself in the foot, he gave the opposition (both the left and the right) an extremely easy weapon to use against him. He already plummeted in Florida polls for it. When Obama said it, Venezuela was far from what it is today, socialism wasnt as "destructive" back then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteMyAccount 11,881 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, LilyLark said: She's a good pick, regardless, but Gwen Moore might also win over some positive press from the Intercept/Jacobin/TYT crowd...which could trickle down to some of the Bernie folks who might not come out. Same thing would happen if Bernie picks a moderate...he'd get some praise in the MSM and it might sway some folks. I completely agree that the Midwest needs to be hit hard...also, NC. I think people just gave up after Obama lost NC in 2012, but between the recent turnout and the polling it's definitely a possibility...I think it will be easier to flip blue than FL and IA. I despise Bloomberg, but at the same time am strangely grateful that he's pouring money into operations in FL/IA/WI/PA/NC/AZ for the election be it Bernie or Biden. One of the reasons I've been leaning Biden is because of how he got the black vote out in SC. I'm going to be focusing on future primaries to see if he can continue that momentum. Black voter turnout declined for the first time in 2016 since the 90s which helped hand Trump the win. Black voter turnout rates were the highest among other races in 2008 and 2012. Additionally, black turnout was down 19% from 2012 in Wisconsin. 19%!!! " Another reason for Wisconsin’s reduced turnout was distaste for both presidential candidates, particularly among Milwaukee’s African-American voters, Pillsbury said. Republican Donald Trump received about 2,700 fewer votes than 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney, while Democrat Hillary Clinton received almost 239,000 fewer votes than President Barack Obama, with much of the decline coming in Milwaukee. UW-Madison political science professor Barry Burden noted that while Wisconsin turned out to be a close contest, it received less attention from the presidential candidates than in previous elections — Clinton didn’t visit the state at all — which could be another factor. " https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-had-second-worst-presidential-election-turnout-decline-since/article_a5706969-46be-5321-ba12-a431d34a0e6d.html I always point this out about Hillary's sh!tty campaigning.. And I'm going to keep saying this until everyone knows and understands. Third party candidates got over 6 million votes total in 2016 vs the less than 2 million in 2012, which was of course more than the previous other presidential elections. 2016's third party turnout was unheard of... And largely due to the "lessor of two evils" debate among Clinton and Trump. I understand the criticisms to why Biden or Bernie can't win, but I need people to start talking about the real issues that are the black vote and how we need to keep third party candidates far away from the election in Nov.... But getting back to the main point, I agree with your suggestion of Gwen. Everyone I talk to says the same thing, the VP needs to be a black woman. But watch it be another old white guy. lol Hillary/Kaine teas.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyBrown 185 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 I love him so much and my heart ache because this country is STILL not ready for a president like him Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyLark 10,213 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, ZacharyMark said: One of the reasons I've been leaning Biden is because of how he got the black vote out in SC. I'm going to be focusing on future primaries to see if he can continue that momentum. Black voter turnout declined for the first time in 2016 since the 90s which helped hand Trump the win. Black voter turnout rates were the highest among other races in 2008 and 2012. Additionally, black turnout was down 19% from 2012 in Wisconsin. 19%!!! " Another reason for Wisconsin’s reduced turnout was distaste for both presidential candidates, particularly among Milwaukee’s African-American voters, Pillsbury said. Republican Donald Trump received about 2,700 fewer votes than 2012 GOP nominee Mitt Romney, while Democrat Hillary Clinton received almost 239,000 fewer votes than President Barack Obama, with much of the decline coming in Milwaukee. UW-Madison political science professor Barry Burden noted that while Wisconsin turned out to be a close contest, it received less attention from the presidential candidates than in previous elections — Clinton didn’t visit the state at all — which could be another factor. " https://madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/wisconsin-had-second-worst-presidential-election-turnout-decline-since/article_a5706969-46be-5321-ba12-a431d34a0e6d.html I always point this out about Hillary's sh!tty campaigning.. And I'm going to keep saying this until everyone knows and understands. Third party candidates got over 6 million votes total in 2016 vs the less than 2 million in 2012, which was of course more than the previous other presidential elections. 2016's third party turnout was unheard of... And largely due to the "lessor of two evils" debate among Clinton and Trump. I understand the criticisms to why Biden or Bernie can't win, but I need people to start talking about the real issues that are the black vote and how we need to keep third party candidates far away from the election in Nov.... But getting back to the main point, I agree with your suggestion of Gwen. Everyone I talk to says the same thing, the VP needs to be a black woman. But watch it be another old white guy. lol Hillary/Kaine teas.... Clyburn is way too savvy...he will not let it be another Tim Kaine if Biden wins. He more or less said in an interview that he basically told Biden he'll endorse him, but that he better shut up and listen...which made me cackle. Look, I'm a Bernie voter but Clyburn is a political genius and if he's running Biden's campaign from behind the scenes...that's a very good thing imo. My guess is Val Demings or Gwen Moore (Black women from swing states who are "relatively" young compared to the rest of the field and are not centrists...and Moore, especially, is a progressive in the Bernie way)...maybe Tammy Baldwin, Catherine Cortez-Maestro, or Stacey Abrams. Val wouldn't make the Bernie wing as happy as Gwen, but she also is used to doing national press. Bernie will probably stick with a moderate if he wins the nomination. *The suburban white women (who did come to their senses in '18), Hillary's campaign not spending enough time in the Midwest, Comey, Wikileaks, and third party voters were a way bigger issue than Black voters...and I get why people are sensitive because often (not that you are doing this!) some people sort of seem to put most of the blame on them when Black turnout is way down on the list of issues of why Hillary lost.... But yeah, we do need to pay special attention to Black voter turnout and Biden is succeeding in that area so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilyLark 10,213 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, FeelTheBern said: To be fair the timing wasn't really Bernie's choice someone brought up his comments of Cuba in the 80's so he defended his comments. But I will agree the timing is bad for Sanders. Yes, but he worded his response in a poor way...he needed to go '08 Obama on Cuba, not '15 Obama on Cuba. Ro Khanna does a way better job at addressing these type of issues that come up about Bernie, so I'm glad that his campaign is making him front and center nowadays as a spokesperson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeleteMyAccount 11,881 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, LilyLark said: *The suburban white women (who did come to their senses in '18), Hillary's campaign not spending enough time in the Midwest, Comey, Wikileaks, and third party voters were a way bigger issue than Black voters...and I get why people are sensitive because often (not that you are doing this!) some people sort of seem to put most of the blame on them when Black turnout is way down on the list of issues of why Hillary lost.... But yeah, we do need to pay special attention to Black voter turnout and Biden is succeeding in that area so far... Yes, and I agree. But specifically to a State like Wisconsin, black voter turnout was key compared to other areas. And I mentioned black voters/third party voters mainly because they are voting blocks that can be engaged in 2020. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilmonzter 2,864 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 5 hours ago, SolidSnake said: Biden did fine in the last few debates. Remember he does have a stuttering problem. Bernie has similar baggage. His support of Castro no matter how small wont play well in Florida for example. Yeah Stuttering, early old age memory problems, his son hunter, Ukraine energy companies, nafta, iraq war. The works Well trump 2020 baby More orange and more bigoted Good luck y'all Make good choices and pray for brains Sing C'est la vie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S0436 10,215 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 He is admitting defeat, most are saying Biden is clear favorite now to get the nomination. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlepotter 76,625 Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Democrats 2020 said: Passive/aggressive rhetoric. How is this passive aggressive? Do you just have to talk **** about Bernie at every chance you get so you can feel accomplished? Idgi chaeri pls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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