Bernie: "Biden can defeat Trump too"

[Morphine Prince 109,984]

Of course he has to say that. 

But with a strong economy and an easy target like Biden on his record, etc. Trump's campaign will have a field day with that. 

The debates are going to be a disaster. Trump will humiliate him. It's not about "winning" debates anymore. It's about political theater. Trump will insult him worse than Hillary. 

Only thing that can save us is a huge turnout in November in the swing states. Or if Biden manages to get back the Trump voters who voted for Obama. 

I continue to believe Trump will win. 

[LilyLark 10,213]

5 minutes ago, Buddy said:

If the DNC knew they could win with Bernie and no one else, they would choose to lose. A Bernie administration is an existential threat to them, while a second Trump term is just business as usual. They prefer Trump over Bernie 100%.

So the DNC somehow engineered it for Bernie to get crushed by Black voters by huge margins in SC, VA, AL, NC, etc. and lose (by smaller margins) in CA, NV, etc.?  This is so dumb. The DNC sucks, but they aren't some all powerful entity....if they were, Bloomberg wouldn't have run and Sherrod Brown would have been a candidate (allegedly numerous Democrats BEGGED Sherrod to run).

*I'm still mad Sherrod didn't run. He's the only Dem who could have carried OH, and one of the few Dems the centrists, the center left, and the leftist all like...h*ll, the man is friends with Bernie AND Hillary.

[Buddy 5,686]

46 minutes ago, SolidSnake said:

Bad take. They would absolutely prefer Bernie to Trump. Bernie might not be ideal, but Trump shifts the overton window further to the right which would mean even less support among core Democratic voters (LGBT, Black, etc) 

You clearly know nothing about the DNC. Bernie is a major threat to their corporate interests. If Trump shifts the Overton window, they will just move with him. The fact that they bent the rules for Bloomberg at the debates because he paid them goes to show where their priorities are. People like you need to wake up so we can finally have a party for the people.

[Adakam 2]

3 minutes ago, Buddy said:

If the DNC knew they could win with Bernie and no one else, they would choose to lose. A Bernie administration is an existential threat to them, while a second Trump term is just business as usual. They prefer Trump over Bernie 100%.

Lmao quit that antiDNC bs already, they wont support Bernie because Bernie 2020 couldnt even get more votes than Bernie 2016. They dont even have to  "rig it" this time. I know its a hard pill to swallow but Bernie failed, his turnout on tuesday was an embarrasment.

[Buddy 5,686]

2 minutes ago, LilyLark said:

So the DNC somehow engineered it for Bernie to get crushed by Black voters by huge margins in SC, VA, AL, NC, etc. and lose (by smaller margins) in CA, NV, etc.?  This is so dumb. The DNC sucks, but they aren't some all powerful entity....if they were, Bloomberg wouldn't have run and Sherrod Brown would have been a candidate (allegedly numerous Democrats BEGGED Sherrod to run).

*I'm still mad Sherrod didn't run. He's the only Dem who could have carried OH, and one of the few Dems the centrists, the center left, and the leftist all like...h*ll, the man is friends with Bernie AND Hillary.

I'm simply throwing out a hypothetical scenario 

[SolidSnake 2,804]

4 minutes ago, Buddy said:

You clearly know nothing about the DNC. Bernie is a major threat to their corporate interests. If Trump shifts the Overton window, they will just move with him. The fact that they bended the rules for Bloomberg at the debates because he paid them goes to show where their priorities are. Hopefully people like you wake up some day so we can actually have a party for the people.

This reeks of conspiracy. Sure the DNC is very unfair to Bernie and likely acts against him, but to say they prefer Trump over him is dumb. Especially when the opposite is true as Democrats since 2016 have adopted more of Bernie's policies in order to win over public support. They wont shift rightward when the party is by and large shifting leftward thanks to the likes of Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, and The Squad. 

Edit: Bernie's main problem is he cannot get low income support, black support and is struggling to maintain Latino support. He very strongly appeals to younger white men who dont vote. 

[LilyLark 10,213]

2 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Of course he has to say that. 

But with a strong economy and an easy target like Biden on his record, etc. Trump's campaign will have a field day with that. 

The debates are going to be a disaster. Trump will humiliate him. It's not about "winning" debates anymore. It's about political theater. Trump will insult him worse than Hillary. 

Only thing that can save us is a huge turnout in November in the swing states. Or if Biden manages to get back the Trump voters who voted for Obama. 

I continue to believe Trump will win. 

I was a Warren supporter who voted for Bernie. But where is this youth turnout or increased turnout? Look, like it or not the turnout that increased was mostly in states Biden won....for example, the turnout in VA was way above 2008. Biden loses younger Latino voters by a large margin, but nowhere near as large as margin as Bernie does with older Black voters (and Biden even won  younger Black voters in several states)....I mean he just got absolutely destroyed in NC and VA and that was with Bloomberg on the ticket. Obviously, Black and Latino/Hispanic voters aren't a monolith (I'm part of the group)....but make up a decisive factor in VA/NC/FL/MI/AZ. And Biden, frankly, has a strength over Bernie in that area.

And the dementia thing is stupid. Biden, like Trump, obviously is slow at times. But the infamous "sister wife" thing...I watched the full clip....his sister and wife (you can see it on the longer video) are moving around behind him and switched sides. 95% of those clips are taken wildly out of context or edited. And as someone who has a family member with a stutter and has seen the stutter get worse under pressure, that is a lot of it too...Biden had these moments way back in '08 even.

Plus, Trump isn't going to debate Biden or Bernie. He's already hinted at it more than once.

TLDR: I can't believe I'm defending Biden...I'm no fan, but he really isn't as awful as some of y'all make him out to be and I think he can win.

[Morphine Prince 109,984]

3 minutes ago, LilyLark said:

I was a Warren supporter who voted for Bernie. But where is this youth turnout or increased turnout? Look, like it or not the turnout that increased was mostly in states Biden won....for example, the turnout in VA was way above 2008. Biden loses younger Latino voters by a large margin, but nowhere near as large as margin as Bernie does with older Black voters (and Biden even won  younger Black voters in several states)....I mean he just got absolutely destroyed in NC and VA and that was with Bloomberg on the ticket. Obviously, Black and Latino/Hispanic voters aren't a monolith (I'm part of the group)....but make up a decisive factor in VA/NC/FL/MI/AZ. And Biden, frankly, has a strength over Bernie in that area.

And the dementia thing is stupid. Biden, like Trump, obviously is slow at times. But the infamous "sister wife" thing...I watched the full clip....his sister and wife (you can see it on the longer video) are moving around behind him and switched sides. 95% of those clips are taken wildly out of context or edited. And as someone who has a family member with a stutter and has seen the stutter get worse under pressure, that is a lot of it too...Biden had these moments way back in '08 even.

Plus, Trump isn't going to debate Biden or Bernie. He's already hinted at it more than once.

TLDR: I can't believe I'm defending Biden...I'm no fan, but he really isn't as awful as some of y'all make him out to be and I think he can win.

I know about both of their turnouts and performances so far. I still believe Trump will win. 

Everyone was wrong in 2016. Anything can happen. 

I believe Bernie's message and IF he had the support in the numbers he needs, I think he could beat Trump. But clearly, that's not happening. 

So the only hope for Trump to be out is for Biden to have a high turnout in November in the key states and with the key demographics. I hope it happens but I'm not holding my breath.

If Trump wins it won't be shocking. He's poised to win as every president in my lifetime has been re-elected. 

[Buddy 5,686]

13 minutes ago, SolidSnake said:

This reeks of conspiracy. Sure the DNC is very unfair to Bernie and likely acts against him, but to say they prefer Trump over him is dumb. Especially when the opposite is true as Democrats since 2016 have adopted more of Bernie's policies in order to win over public support. They wont shift rightward when the party is by and large shifting leftward thanks to the likes of Bernie, Elizabeth Warren, and The Squad. 

When the DNC and ENTIRE mainstream media spend months ignoring your candidate, then launch nonstop smear campaigns against your candidate, then gaslight your candidate's supporters, then compare your candidate to the rise of Nazism... then suddenly, after Biden wins ONE state after 30 years of campaigning the centrist DNC candidates drop out and the entire establishment rushes to endorse...

Yes, it was organized. Bernie was a threat. I'm not saying that it's rigging as it's perfectly legal, but give me a break if you don't think the establishment is far up Biden's ass right now.

The DNC and mainstream media despise Bernie, and 2016's WikiLeaks only confirm my "beliefs"

Like do you even pay attention? It is MORE than blatant. When did you start tuning in to this election and how closely do you follow it? All of you new members suddenly jumping into politics on here... like why now? Lmao.

[LilyLark 10,213]

18 minutes ago, SolidSnake said:

Thats without me looking at the polls. Its just common sense lol. Marketing yourself as Democratic Socialist (when you arent even advocating socialist policy) and going on about the good Castro did is just a recipe for disaster in the state. 

People got mad at me for saying this, but yep. And this is from someone who voted for Bernie...but he honestly has such bad political instincts at times. For example, right after he lost in SC, railing on about losing because of the "establishment" and "money" was the wrong choice and come off as tone deaf. Biden's campaign was notoriously broke, and he won SC because of Black voters.  In terms of FL, Obama made major strides to repairing relations with Cuba late in his second term. Timing is everything....

Honestly, Ro Khanna is so, so good at conveying Bernie's message.  He absolutely knows how to bridge the divide between all factions...and I've noticed Bernie's campaign has him out doing a lot more interviews nowadays. From day one, Ro should have been the number one spokesperson for Bernie and I wish Bernie would have adopted some of his rhetoric.

[Buddy 5,686]

How does one come to the conclusion that the DNC and mainstream media DON'T have it out for Bernie?  I... just... don't know what to tell that type of person. How do I explain to someone that the sky is blue when they are telling you it's green?

 

[DeleteMyAccount 11,881]

26 minutes ago, LilyLark said:

He's not wrong....I know some folks on here don't want to hear that, tho.

Bernie's path is through the rust belt (WI, IA, OH, MI) and Biden's path is through NC, MI, PA and possibly FL (he's beaten Trump in several head to head polls in FL). Both of them can win. I wouldn't be surprised if AZ went blue, too. Mark Kelly is routinely beating McSally in the polls by a fairly decent margin....

God I hope McSally is beat badly. 

 

 

[FeelTheBern 371]

39 minutes ago, SolidSnake said:

Thats without me looking at the polls. Its just common sense lol. Marketing yourself as Democratic Socialist (when you arent even advocating socialist policy) and going on about the good Castro did is just a recipe for disaster in the state. 

He said the same things about castro that Obama did in 2008 why are people blowing this up bigger then it actually is? 

[LilyLark 10,213]

7 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

I know about both of their turnouts and performances so far. I still believe Trump will win. 

Everyone was wrong in 2016. Anything can happen. 

I believe Bernie's message and IF he had the support in the numbers he needs, I think he could beat Trump. But clearly, that's not happening. 

So the only hope for Trump to be out is for Biden to have a high turnout in November in the key states and with the key demographics. I hope it happens but I'm not holding my breath.

If Trump wins it won't be shocking. He's poised to win as every president in my lifetime has been re-elected. 

It's always hard to defeat an incumbent with a good economy...even if it's a monster like Trump. As sad as it is, the one reason (regardless of who is the Democratic candidate) Trump may lose is if he keeps botching the corona virus response...and not because he's a racist, stupid egomaniac. It might be his "Katrina."

But at this point, I do think it's better to be positive that Bernie and/or Biden can win. I think Biden can take NC if the turnout remains high in the general (also, the polling for the senate race is showing the Dem candidate ahead by several points)....and it's basically game over for Trump if that happens. Bloomberg is also setting up offices in NC to juice turnout...and I think Bernie can take IA and WI...which will be game over for Trump in that scenario.

My main worry is the media...the NYT is awful to any Dem (be it Biden or Bernie)...and centrists staying home if it's Bernie and leftists staying home if it's Biden. I hope to god they both pick VPs who appeal to the other side....Biden could go with Gwen Moore (very progressive, shares like 97% of Bernie's ideals...and is also a popular Black congresswoman from Milwaukee who can juice turnout in that area).  I know a lot Bernie supporters despise Kamala and Amy K, but both of them would be good running mates for him as a counterbalance.

[LilyLark 10,213]

12 minutes ago, Buddy said:

How does one come to the conclusion that the DNC and mainstream media DON'T have it out for Bernie?  I... just... don't know what to tell that type of person. How do I explain to someone that the sky is blue when they are telling you it's green?

 

Chris Hayes from MSNBC, Dave Weigel from WaPo, and Jeff Stein from WaPo are so clearly pro Bernie it isn't even funny. I follow several HuffPost reporters on twitter because they are/were clearly sympathetic to Warren and  Bernie. Liz Bruenig is openly pro Bernie and works for the NYT.

It's absolutely true that a lot of the mainstream media dislikes him (Joy Anne, for example, and Chris Matthews)...but it's not nearly as bad as supporters make it out to be. And to counterbalance, the Intercept, TYT, Jacobin, etc. are equally biased against Biden and in general the NYT hates Biden and Bernie equally.