CNN: Bernie is magical thinking on climate

[Lilmonzter 2,864]

4 hours ago, Florin said:

But do u understand that by bringing that point into discussion, do you agree with CNN and the video? 

See. Sometimes it doesnt hurt to watch the video. 

This is such an idiotic position to take and you don't get why a person takes a position they do.

Between I saw the video honey.

The point I made was about nuclear power source theoretically and in practice the most safest and most energy-efficient and environment friendly. 

That stands for itself and I'm not going back on that 

But 

Solar energy source creates so many more jobs and doesn't need targeted skilled labour which is scarce in America. And doesn't have the stigma or risk associated with nuclear power.

Chernobyl disaster and Fukushima incident may have been singular devastating incidents but they point to people's fear that IF

And that's a big If anything were to happen the risk of  radiation is humongous and it would be devastating for generations to come. Why take risk when there are doable other options.

The initial capital for both are  quite high and calling them pipe dreams just cause you can without any prior research or scientific input is so idiotic and ill informed. 

 

[Economy 52,851]

On 2/16/2020 at 12:10 PM, rojo said:

Oh poor oil and coal industries! I feel sooo bad. We should just stop any effort and accept global warming because it will fail. GTFO 

We still need them tho and I don't think ppl get that

 

A phaseout as rapid as possible tho yes

[Economy 52,851]

On 2/16/2020 at 11:31 AM, Lionel Hutz said:

A Bernie hater hating on Bernie. What else is new?

There was nothing "hateful" about the post. It's an opinion video

 

Bernie supporters make simmilar threads on GGD for other candidates

[Economy 52,851]

23 hours ago, Florin said:

Climate change isnt actually the topic here, but how realistic the Bernie plan is. 

I think his plan is duable but it will require more economic sacrafice than he lets on or than that people realize there would be

 

A change that significant in 10 years that would require so much storage capacity added plus over 50% of electricity changed (natural gas + nuclear and the remaining coal) would cost an absolute fortune

 

I think hydro prices would have to go up at least temporarily and his wealth tax that almost no expert thinks will raise as much money as he expects will not be enough and everyday people will have to be taxed more as well

 

Is the climate worth it? I'd say yes. And I do think it's technically duable

 

But I also think people who think it's so easily duable like it's nothing are also deluding themselves

 

If Nations like the US are gonna commit to this, ppl need to acknowledge that it will cost them. And I don't think they realize it will

 

His free education, student debt cancellation and all these other services hes proposing is already gonna cost a lot (I won't include healthcare cuz savings on insurance premiums or out if pocket expenses would more than offset any tax hikes). There's no his tax hikes on the rich will have enough left over for a revamp of the entire electric grid this quickly

 

Everyday ppl will pay more one way or another there's no end if or but

 

Or raise the deficit. But that is a bad idea long term as US debt is already passed 100% of GDP

 

@Morphine Princei

 

You say Bernie haters don't understand science. That could be true for many. But on the flip side I also feel like many Bernie supporters are not very good at seperating ideology from realism

 

There's the ideal things we want done. But Bernie Sanders supporters seem to have this idea that everything is so easy and that if u just tax the rich u can do anything and everything and that it's all the DNC Centrists fault for holding it all back

 

I genuinely don't think it's that simple

 

I think he has some ideas that are partial solutions and would help. I agree with his idea of more wealth redistribution and more investment in society and the people. But the overall package as a whole seems like too much promises

[Morphine Prince 109,656]

26 minutes ago, Economy said:

 

@Morphine Prince

 

You say Bernie haters don't understand science. That could be true for many. But on the flip side I also feel like many Bernie supporters are not very good at seperating ideology from realism

 

There's the ideal things we want done. But Bernie Sanders supporters seem to have this idea that everything is so easy and that if u just tax the rich u can do anything and everything and that it's all the DNC Centrists fault for holding it all back

 

I genuinely don't think it's that simple

 

I think he has some ideas that are partial solutions and would help. I agree with his idea of more wealth redistribution and more investment in society and the people. But the overall package as a whole seems like too much promises

Bernie Sanders proposes things that are real and the norm in many parts of the world. 

Furthermore, it is obvious candidates propose many things that might not happen during their presidency. So I as his supporter don't expect everything to magically get done. 

BUT, we need to aim high and then make some compromises. Not aim low and get something even worse (what moderate Democrats tend to do).

 

 

[Economy 52,851]

21 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Bernie Sanders proposes things that are real and the norm in many parts of the world. 

Furthermore, it is obvious candidates propose many things that might not happen during their presidency. So I as his supporter don't expect everything to magically get done. 

BUT, we need to aim high and then make some compromises. Not aim low and get something even worse (what moderate Democrats tend to do).

 

 

Not everything is the norm. Mass debt forgiveness for example is certainly not a norm

 

And his green plan is only the norm in terms of the end result but not the pace at which he wants to do it

 

I also want to add that most of the Countries that have these other programs Bernie wants to have also have to rely on higher taxes on the general population as a whole as well. Only taxing the rich like Bernie generally proposes doesn't generally cut it with the exception of some very resource Countries like Saudi Arabia that provide services with almost no tax

[Economy 52,851]

1 hour ago, Lilmonzter said:

This is such an idiotic position to take and you don't get why a person takes a position they do.

Between I saw the video honey.

The point I made was about nuclear power source theoretically and in practice the most safest and most energy-efficient and environment friendly. 

That stands for itself and I'm not going back on that 

But 

Solar energy source creates so many more jobs and doesn't need targeted skilled labour which is scarce in America. And doesn't have the stigma or risk associated with nuclear power.

Chernobyl disaster and Fukushima incident may have been singular devastating incidents but they point to people's fear that IF

And that's a big If anything were to happen the risk of  radiation is humongous and it would be devastating for generations to come. Why take risk when there are doable other options.

The initial capital for both are  quite high and calling them pipe dreams just cause you can without any prior research or scientific input is so idiotic and ill informed. 

 

There is new nuclear under development based on waste that does not carry the risks traditional nuclear does and it allows us to put that waste to use

 

Should be at least considered as a source

 

Not like instead of solar but I mean like in addition to.

 

It would help fix the intermittent gap between wind and solar so we wouldn't have to have so much storage

[Morphine Prince 109,656]

25 minutes ago, Economy said:

Not everything is the norm. Mass debt forgiveness for example is certainly not a norm

 

And his green plan is only the norm in terms of the end result but not the pace at which he wants to do it

 

I also want to add that most of the Countries that have these other programs Bernie wants to have also have to rely on higher taxes on the general population as a whole as well. Only taxing the rich like Bernie generally proposes doesn't generally cut it with the exception of some very resource Countries like Saudi Arabia that provide services with almost no tax

Bernie has said not only the rich will have their taxes increased. Like for Medicare For All, he has said taxes will go up but there will no longer be things like premiums, high deductibles, etc. which cost more in the end. 

[Economy 52,851]

7 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

Bernie has said not only the rich will have their taxes increased. Like for Medicare For All, he has said taxes will go up but there will no longer be things like premiums, high deductibles, etc. which cost more in the end. 

I agree on the healthcare. I always have.

 

On taxes tho I have not found any specific on general hikes tho

 

I know he wants to raise Corporate taxes to 35% with fewer loop holes (I rate I find internationally uncompetitive btw especially when u add State Taxes)

 

I know he has his wealth tax, the inheritance tax that kicks in after $3.5M 

 

The Capital Gains hike and top income gains of 70% for very high income

 

Then there's the 4% payroll (I think that one is meh I feel like it could discourage raises)

 

But I haven't found any info on general income tax rates. I'll look at them if u can find a link

[Lilmonzter 2,864]

25 minutes ago, Economy said:

There is new nuclear under development based on waste that does not carry the risks traditional nuclear does and it allows us to put that waste to use

 

Should be at least considered as a source

 

Not like instead of solar but I mean like in addition to.

 

It would help fix the intermittent gap between wind and solar so we wouldn't have to have so much storage

Yep I  agree with that

Also hydel is a good source  to tap into. The initial capital would be excessive but it's proven effective in Slavic countries.but it should be done in way that is not detrimental to Aquarian life.

But there's that niggling thought that nuclear power creates mass hysteria cause of previous bad brushes with nuclear energy in history and that idea that humans can't handle it. 

[Morphine Prince 109,656]

13 minutes ago, Economy said:

I agree on the healthcare. I always have.

 

On taxes tho I have not found any specific on general hikes tho

 

I know he wants to raise Corporate taxes to 35% with fewer loop holes (I rate I find internationally uncompetitive btw especially when u add State Taxes)

 

I know he has his wealth tax, the inheritance tax that kicks in after $3.5M 

 

The Capital Gains hike and top income gains of 70% for very high income

 

Then there's the 4% payroll (I think that one is meh I feel like it could discourage raises)

 

But I haven't found any info on general income tax rates. I'll look at them if u can find a link

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/study-medicare-all-means-middle-class-taxes-could-save-them-n1073431

Not exact numbers but this article explains the logic a bit. On Healthcare. 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

11 hours ago, Woolfsmck said:

We can only express our concerns and interests to them … 'getting them to' do anything is a wait and see prospect … 

delcaring 'emergency' only pushes rational thinking people the opposite way ...

the climate 'catastrophe' is a slow and gradual event in terms of human perception... plus climate change is and will always be a threat regardess of human activity, history has proven this time and again … 

live in a panic state about something that you or even all the US can't do is silly and a waste ...

 

There's a strong unscientific mentality in this comment  

1) protesting and activism have never worked ever apparently? Good to know

2) Rational people came up with plans and solutions a while ago. It's our corrupt government (and global economy) that hasnt implemented them yet

3) Climate Change is cyclical, but also man-made in this case and exacerbated to an extreme. We can mitigate the damage, so we should, obviously. To not do so would be immoral (and just stupid) in my mind.

4) Who said we're living in a panic state just because we want to do something about it as quickly as possible?  If anything, the average person SHOULD be more panicked or at least cognizant of the damage potential, but this isn't the case currently. Hundreds of Millions of Americans are surely living their daily lives mostly not thinking about climate change constantly because they have things like working multiple jobs at low pay to think about  

[Economy 52,851]

10 minutes ago, Lilmonzter said:

Yep I  agree with that

Also hydel is a good source  to tap into. The initial capital would be excessive but it's proven effective in Slavic countries.but it should be done in way that is not detrimental to Aquarian life.

But there's that niggling thought that nuclear power creates mass hysteria cause of previous bad brushes with nuclear energy in history and that idea that humans can't handle it. 

If by hydel u mean hydro that's the 2nd biggest source of electricity in my Province (Ontario) after Nuclear

 

For us it works cuz we have tones of water and rivers...

 

Solar sucks in the winter cuz we have short sunlight days and wind is not consistently abundant all the time here...

 

I think Scandinavian Countries and other North Europe Countries like Netherlands and Denmark rely a lot more on wind than solar because their costs have consistent wind but they too have short sunlight hours in winter

 

They are fine to have in the mix but it would be hard to rely on them very very significantly. For us Hydro just works better

 

That's the thing I find about renewable energy. Ppl over generalize what's a good solution. I think what's best in one geographical location is not the best in another

 

Some areas got abundant geothermal hot spots others not as much

 

It really depends

 

[Emvee 8,829]

Oh so the media is advocating for incremental changes that “can actually be done” but they know won’t actually be done. Got it, thanks. As if I haven’t heard this story my whole damn life. 
 

The only thing that is going to address climate change now is radical change and the media is really the biggest thing in the way of that. 

[Economy 52,851]

6 minutes ago, Morphine Prince said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/study-medicare-all-means-middle-class-taxes-could-save-them-n1073431

Not exact numbers but this article explains the logic a bit. On Healthcare. 

Thanks I read

 

Yikes those taxes are really high. By value added consumption tax I assume like a sales tax? 42% is really high

 

There must be a way to reshuffle stuff to not have to raise taxes across the board (including Corporate taxes) so high. 

 

Single payer would definitely help this. Privatization takes way profit margins in healthcare industry that just balloon costs. 

 

If there's one thing I agree with Bernie strongly it's the Universal HealthCare approach