Kesha found guilty of defamation, ordered to pay $370k to Dr. Luke

[March34th 1,973]

1 minute ago, illySpencer said:

I truly sorry about you, BUT we are not talking about you.

Plus there is a video of her saying Dr Luke didn't do anything to her. So stop now, she lied, she is punish, and of the story. 

I know we aren't talking about me. I'm making a simple comparison to validate her experience.

And sorry but you clearly have no comprehension about how trauma and denial come hand in hand. After a traumatic experience many people go into denial out of fear and for their own sanity before they begin to have a clarity break. This period can last for a few months to even decades. She was likely scared, in denial, worried about her career, worried about being charged, and generally traumatized.

If you're preaching that we shouldn't take her word as gospel when she's claimed she was raped, then stop contradicting yourself by taking a video out of context to support YOUR opinion and view.

She didn't f*cking lie, and I'm sorry but the trauma she's exhibited over the past decade and a half is more than enough evidence that SOMETHING happened, not to mention how Luke won't f*cking leave her alone and is constantly trying to pull her back into the cycle of abuse.

You could seriously benefit from researching how rape trauma works. You clearly see it as something black and white when there's plenty of gray area. It's not as simple as "here's proof!" "okay, charged/not charged". It's almost impossible to EXPLICITLY "prove" a rape happened, and it's just disrespectful and dehumanizing to the victim to even try after a certain point. She didn't videotape the assault.

And this goes past rape. He verbally abused her and there's been a multitude of evidence on that that has surfaced online. I'm not wasting my time finding or citing stuff because you clearly are stuck in your opinion and not educated enough on how trauma works,

[March34th 1,973]

6 hours ago, HighRoad said:

Kesha heard this info from an industry insider (producer) & Kesha told Gaga through text. This was the defamation Kesha got charged for 

thank you for understanding. There's reason to believe now that Luke *may* have started the rumor himself knowing that it would float back over to Kesha and she would talk about it. She was looking out for other people and that shows her character. She's a literal angel and this entire thread and this entire issue is breaking my heart. I hope she's doing okay right now in this moment.

[illySpencer 1,434]

1 minute ago, March34th said:

I know we aren't talking about me. I'm making a simple comparison to validate her experience.

And sorry but you clearly have no comprehension about how trauma and denial come hand in hand. After a traumatic experience many people go into denial out of fear and for their own sanity before they begin to have a clarity break. This period can last for a few months to even decades. She was likely scared, in denial, worried about her career, worried about being charged, and generally traumatized.

If you're preaching that we shouldn't take her word as gospel when she's claimed she was raped, then stop contradicting yourself by taking a video out of context to support YOUR opinion and view.

She didn't f*cking lie, and I'm sorry but the trauma she's exhibited over the past decade and a half is more than enough evidence that SOMETHING happened, not to mention how Luke won't f*cking leave her alone and is constantly trying to pull her back into the cycle of abuse.

You could seriously benefit from researching how rape trauma works. You clearly see it as something black and white when there's plenty of gray area. It's not as simple as "here's proof!" "okay, charged/not charged". It's almost impossible to EXPLICITLY "prove" a rape happened, and it's just disrespectful and dehumanizing to the victim to even try after a certain point. She didn't videotape the assault.

And this goes past rape. He verbally abused her and there's been a multitude of evidence on that that has surfaced online. I'm not wasting my time finding or citing stuff because you clearly are stuck in your opinion and not educated enough on how trauma works,

She lied honey, accept it. 

Plus, like I said it before being a bad personn doesn't make him a rapist. Two different thing. You should really go away from this case, cause clearly you take it too personnally. 

[Economy 47,840]

4 minutes ago, March34th said:

Okay I understand where you're coming from now. These are valid points. I thought you were primarily focusing on the false allegations rather than trying to either take the middle ground or acknowledge how whacked the justice system is in regards to allegations and how people don't report because of how messy it can get or how they can easily be charged for defamation or other stuff for speaking up.

I agree that someone just saying "hey I was abused" isn't enough to stand on, but if you look past that and analyze the alleged incident there are many ways to collect evidence of it without explicitly proving it happened (if that makes any sense)

Like with Kesha's case, she claimed she was drugged at a party with Luke and he took her to a hotel room where they fell asleep together, and when she woke up her vagina hurt and he left. That's definitely a sketchy situation, plus with her evident trauma, in my own opinion - I think that's enough to charge him, he definitely was putting himself in a weird situation. I respect your opinion if you disagree though. I think I'm just very defensive on her behalf because I've had my own experiences similar to hers and am still processing my own experiences so I always tend to come to the defense of survivors.

Yeah that's more what I was talking about I wasn't saying just call ppl a liar or something if they don't have proof. I was talking more about the legal actions aspect of it

 

And I'm so sorry u had to go thru that fortunately, as much trauma as I've been thru in my life sexual harrassment was not one of them

 

Also don't take this the wrong way, but on that last part, our own personal experiences can make us biased because then we have emotions in the background too not just pure reason

 

Just like a judge or jury can't have any person connection to the people being tried what's so ever....

 

I think in a simmilar way both victims of sexual assault (or in a smaller percentage of the times people who may be falsevily accused) can be a but biased in these cases because they will be influenced by their own experiences which may or not have happened the same way for somebody else in another circumstance

 

So when ppl use the argument "you don't know what it's like" it's true I don't, I couldn't. And I don't want to deminish or downplay the severity in anyway but at the same time someone whose been hurt could actually see the case less objectively because they will have their own injustices to reflect on and a higher extent maybe assume the other person must be going thru the same thing (even tho just cuz one went thru an experience is not 100% certain the other person is going thru the same thing)

 

Other victims would definitely be the most qualified to speak on the impact it has on the victim emotionally. Again I was talking about the legal and court stuff tho

 

I dunno if I explained myself properly. I feel like sometimes I use wording and it triggers people cuz they think I'm implying a thought on a different angle than I actually am

[March34th 1,973]

Just now, illySpencer said:

She lied honey, accept it. 

Plus, like I said it before being a bad personn doesn't make him a rapist. Two different thing. You should really go away from this case, cause clearly you take it too personnally. 

The law doesn't work so simply.

And I didn't say that he's a bad person therefore he's a rapist? No one is saying that? He's a bad person because he's abusive scum.

[farting 629]

Jesus Christ you guys type a lot

[Economy 47,840]

25 minutes ago, farting said:

Jesus Christ you guys type a lot

You should see me and @ItsTommyBitch debating politics and economy

 

By the time I type everything and he replies with an equally long answer (sometimes longer) sometimes I already forgot what my core point I was trying to make was  

[illySpencer 1,434]

4 minutes ago, March34th said:

The law doesn't work so simply.

And I didn't say that he's a bad person therefore he's a rapist? No one is saying that? He's a bad person because he's abusive scum.

Katy worked with him her whole carreer and nothing happen with him. So stop now. Like I said, no don't know anything about him, but I have to believe you cause you "don't live in the United States and I'm an anonymous person online", I guess.... 

[March34th 1,973]

Just now, Economy said:

Yeah that's more what I was talking about I wasn't saying just call ppl a liar or something if they don't have proof. I was talking more about the legal actions aspect of it

And I'm so sorry u had to go thru that fortunately, as much trauma as I've been thru in my life sexual harrassment was not one of them

Also don't take this the wrong way, but on that last part, our own personal experiences can make us biased because then we have emotions in the background too not just pure reason

Just like a judge or jury can't have any person connection to the people being tried what's so ever....

I think in a simmilar way both victims of sexual assault (or in a smaller percentage of the times people who may be falsevily accused) can be a but biased in these cases because they will be influenced by their own experiences which may or not have happened the same way for somebody else in another circumstance

So when ppl use the argument "you don't know what it's like" it's true I don't, I couldn't. And I don't want to deminish or downplay the severity in anyway but at the same time someone whose been hurt could actually see the case less objectively because they will have their own injustices to reflect on and a higher extent maybe assume the other person must be going thru the same thing (even tho just cuz one went thru an experience is not 100% certain the other person is going thru the same thing)

Other victims would definitely be the most qualified to speak on the impact it has on the victim emotionally. Again I was talking about the legal and court stuff tho

I dunno if I explained myself properly. I feel like sometimes I use wording and it triggers people cuz they think I'm implying a thought on a different angle than I actually am

I understand what you mean now, yeah the legalities of it are very rigid and can become embarrassingly dehumanizing for survivors. It sucks and I wish there were ways to change it but it's so difficult.

And that is a good point. I may be slightly biased due to my own experiences and I try to take both sides of every story like this, but I just personally have watched her career crumble then rise back up and I see a drive within her and don't believe she would orchestrate this entire thing that has lasted for almost 20 years now (since the incident occurred in 2005).

You bring some good points about the bias and fellow survivors being blinded by that bias. It's sometimes frustrating even to me because whenever things like this happen sometimes people use it as a way to railroad and talk about just their own experience, though again I don't think that's entirely bad, it starts a discussion which is healthy and gets people talking.

But I try my best to stay in the middle ground until I get enough "evidence" for me to take either side, and I generally try to believe survivors as long as the allegations don't look like they're coming from a place of spite (which I have seen before and have not believed them as quickly before).

I apologize if I came off as defensive though you explained yourself extremely well

[March34th 1,973]

4 minutes ago, illySpencer said:

Katy worked with him her whole carreer and nothing happen with him. So stop now. Like I said, no don't know anything about him, but I have to believe you cause you "don't live in the United States and I'm an anonymous person online", I guess.... 

You tried using the fact that what I'm saying is somehow against the law when I don't even live in the United States so I can't be charged for stating my opinion online, from another country, under a pseudonym online. That whole thing is irrelevant to this debate.

The Katy Perry part is weird because no, he likely didn't rape her because we don't have evidence and Katy said she wasn't hurt by him, so at this point in time, I'm convinced he likely did not. Maybe if sketchy stuff comes from that (like Katy exhibiting trauma or something that could be linked to Luke) then I will reconsider.

But but what happened was Kesha overheard people talking about it and she told Gaga over texts which leaked last year. Someone could have orchestrated that to get her in trouble with the law for defamation so Luke would have an upper hand, which if that's what happened, is an extremely sh*tty thing to do.  Luke knew she'd hear about it and knows her character.

[Economy 47,840]

13 minutes ago, March34th said:

I understand what you mean now, yeah the legalities of it are very rigid and can become embarrassingly dehumanizing for survivors. It sucks and I wish there were ways to change it but it's so difficult.

And that is a good point. I may be slightly biased due to my own experiences and I try to take both sides of every story like this, but I just personally have watched her career crumble then rise back up and I see a drive within her and don't believe she would orchestrate this entire thing that has lasted for almost 20 years now (since the incident occurred in 2005).

You bring some good points about the bias and fellow survivors being blinded by that bias. It's sometimes frustrating even to me because whenever things like this happen sometimes people use it as a way to railroad and talk about just their own experience, though again I don't think that's entirely bad, it starts a discussion which is healthy and gets people talking.

But I try my best to stay in the middle ground until I get enough "evidence" for me to take either side, and I generally try to believe survivors as long as the allegations don't look like they're coming from a place of spite (which I have seen before and have not believed them as quickly before).

I apologize if I came off as defensive though you explained yourself extremely well

No that's all fair stuff ur saying

 

U misunderstood me but I think I also misunderstood you. I thought u were one of those that advocates for believing the victim no matter what (even with little evidence) which I think is a slippery slope to go down

 

Even with little evidence I wouldn't call someone a liar and I'd try to be supportive if they came out to me. I'm not going to assume the victim is lying and not listen... But I also wouldn't want a person thrown in jail, or in the case of public figures "be cancelled" if there's limited evidence to go on cuz u just never know. In cases with little or not evidence or proof id honestly just give both the benefit of the doubt. Be there for the victim and support her/him but also not want the alleged thrown in jail if were not certain. That does not appear to be the case with Kesha tho I'm literally just generalizing here

 

And what I said about being biased can apply to anything to any of us... People tend to associate simmilar situations they see with ones they've had themselves and then be more inclined to think it's happening the same way to the other person even if you don't really know

 

It's like ppl who are distrustful of specific types of people and stereotype and become racist or sexist or certain types of companies based on past experiences

 

Ok that example is not exactly the same as a crime but I think u get my point. I'm just saying experiences influence our perceptions and hard as we try to be fully objective it's just not within human nature

 

But I think it's admirable that despite going thru something so horrible you say u still try to see all sides

[Didymus 34,379]

29 minutes ago, March34th said:

Like with Kesha's case, she claimed she was drugged at a party with Luke and he took her to a hotel room where they fell asleep together, and when she woke up her vagina hurt and he left. That's definitely a sketchy situation, plus with her evident trauma, in my own opinion - I think that's enough to charge him

Maybe if she went straight to the police and got a medical examination. Not years later when she wanted out of her contract. Not even saying she's lying. But yeah, that should never be enough to charge someone with rape.

[Economy 47,840]

30 minutes ago, illySpencer said:

Katy worked with him her whole carreer and nothing happen with him. So stop now. Like I said, no don't know anything about him, but I have to believe you cause you "don't live in the United States and I'm an anonymous person online", I guess.... 

I mean nothing happening to Katy does not necessarily prove anything tho

 

An abuser doesn't have to target every single person they come across

 

Also there's always other factors at play such as when did an opportunity to do something actually occur? Was there a moment of weakness?

 

Some crimes like rape or murder are not necessarily planed and pre meditated. If a person had an opportunity at a specific time and maybe his mind that day was extra lustful etc he could of done something that most of the time he wouldn't have who knows

 

It's not that black and white. Not ALL ppl guilty of sexual abuse necessarily plan it ahead of time or are guilty of repeated attacks or offences

 

Sometimes its a one time thing that could have occurred in the right set of factors. It doesn't make it not serious tho

 

Think of it like cheating. Not everyone who cheats on their spouse does it repeatedly or necessarily planed to do it. They could have gotten too close to someone else and finally there's a day where something happened under the right factors

 

So nothing happening to Katy that whole time is not necessarily proof he didn't abuse Ke$ha

 

 

[Suuus 5,632]

54 minutes ago, illySpencer said:

I truly sorry about you, BUT we are not talking about you.

Plus there is a video of her saying Dr Luke didn't do anything to her. So stop now, she lied, she is punish, and of the story. 

Did it ever cross your mind that kesha maybe did this out of fear i gues not

[illySpencer 1,434]

5 hours ago, Suuus said:

Did it ever cross your mind that kesha maybe did this out of fear i gues not

If she was affraid of him, why she stayed by his side after this event ?