Kesha found guilty of defamation, ordered to pay $370k to Dr. Luke

[SEANGT 5,180]

how is a private text that was only revealed because of court discovery...defamation....

[Meruk Holland 2,253]

Just now, Admin said:

I’m not. I don’t know what happened. But I believe that lying under oath should be punishable. Otherwise what’s the point?

It is, but only in the most serious of cases is it actually punished with jail time. Otherwise it's just some fines. And that's if the offense is pursued. 

The fact is lying under oath is incredibly common place, and for all kinds of different, possibly morally justifiable, reasons. And the justice system accounts for it. For example, in this specific case, the court is assuming that both of Kesha's statements are simultaneously lying under oath and being true at the same time. 

[Economy 49,192]

15 hours ago, KingRedd said:

Here’s the issue. As a man, it’s so easy to become a target these days. Not taking anything away from her, but women have the lower to ruin a man instantly by saying he sexually assaulted her at some point. The media and GP bash first and ask questions later. If the judge and attorneys didn’t find any reason to deem him guilty than something is up. So many have been found guilty and he hasn’t after this trial. The hate needs to stop and the realization that Kesha most likely fabricated needs to be heard. It’s not fair on his part if he’s just a bad businessman but is labeled a rapist. 

 

15 hours ago, M Monstre said:

Just because the system says 'x' doesn't mean it's right.

As for Kesha herself...look, I seriously doubt she did this to just get out of a contract. Rape and sexual assault is a very serious thing to accuse someone off. I believe she was telling the truth, and I believe in this instance, the justice system has failed.

Here's the thing. If u wanna get back at someone, have some kind of vendetta or in this case a motive like a contract u wanna get out of...

 

Sexual assaults is probably one of the easiest things to make up. Or at the very least embellish (let's say one is indeed harassed to some degree so there's some truth to it but then puts it forward as full out rape)

 

The issue I have with this culture of believe the victim and cancel the rapist is that ppl will jump on it with no proof or regard for any possibility that one could be innocent

 

False accusations happen believe it or not and sexual assault is one of the easiest to make up out of the blue

 

However I'm not saying Kesha did this nor did I ever get that impression... I also think it's Beyonce insensitive to call her a liar. If ur not 100% certain about something u can still send support

 

But in terms of canceling someone or saying that it's so improbable someone would lie, it does happen so innocent till proven guilty is important

[March34th 1,973]

2 minutes ago, Economy said:

Here's the thing. If u wanna get back at someone, have some kind of vendetta or in this case a motive like a contract u wanna get out of...

Sexual assaults is probably one of the easiest things to make up. Or at the very least embellish (let's say one is indeed harassed to some degree so there's some truth to it but then puts it forward as full out rape)

The issue I have with this culture of believe the victim and cancel the rapist is that ppl will jump on it with no proof or regard for any possibility that one could be innocent

False accusations happen believe it or not and sexual assault is one of the easiest to make up out of the blue

However I'm not saying Kesha did this nor did I ever get that impression... I also think it's Beyonce insensitive to call her a liar. If ur not 100% certain about something u can still send support

But in terms of canceling someone or saying that it's so improbable someone would lie, it does happen so innocent till proven guilty is important

False accusations account for one of the tiniest percentages of rape accusations. And thats just ones that get reported.

Unless you have been raped or abused you will NEVER understand how much courage and intensity inside of you it takes to come forward. Most people NEVER come forward because the system is so rigged against victims because it doesn't take into account the physical or emotional after effects of a rape or assault.

Trauma is enough indication that a rape happened and its very hard to fake having trauma. It's very hard to fake physical health issues that come out of a rape. Its very hard to fake having insomnia, fear of intimacy, fear of men/women (depending on who raped who), its hard to fake having trauma and keep that up for years

So seriously its irrelevant to bring up the whole "well people sometimes lie" crap. Someone always says that whenever stuff like this happens and its getting really old.

We should applaud and encourage people to support survivors and people who come forward because again, you need to wrap your head around how minuscule the amount of false accusations are out there, and how much it actually takes to come forward and to even be heard.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is hard to apply to this in my opinion as well. There isn't going to be video or photographic/witness evidence of a rape in most cases and courts use that to get the rapist free and to in turn charge the accuser, it happens all the time and almost happened to me when I told my family and friends when my boyfriend raped me when I was 17. He threatened to take action against me because he knows he would win any lawsuit because the courts almost always take the side of the abuser, especially when its in gray areas such as marital or spousal rape, unconscious rape, or things like when someone decides they want to stop having sex after its been initiated, then the other party continues, and then technically rapes them because the consent has been removed.

Courts most of the time act like rape only happens when its some woman walking home alone at night who gets attacked. Most rapes happen by someone the victim already knows and trusts, or by members of their family, friend group, their spouse, or someone they trust.

After a rape or even general abuse happens, there's also often things like gaslighting which happen, where the rapist will convince the abused person that what happened wasn't serious, or wasn't rape because of X Y Z. Victims also often experience a period of amnesia where the event is either completely repressed or forgotten as a survival tactic. Or they will try to convince themselves that it wasn't as serious as it actually was, or hide it from loved ones or friends or the public out of fear. There's so many avenues rape happens in and that's why its such a difficult thing with the legalities, but we need to stop focusing on the tiny percentage of rape allegations that turn out to be false, all that does is triggers victims and silences people who have spoken up, or makes them look like liars. We need to focus on helping people who need help, and helping them seek justice if they want to go that route, and if not, we need to do everything we can to support them through their pain.

And also besides that, there's legit proof that he drugged her and raped her in her sleep. And she's been experiencing trauma and legit emotional and psychological pain for almost two decades now.

Someone who lied wouldn't be keeping this up for so long. ESPECIALLY after she had a chance to come forward and say he didn't rape her to get the charges dropped, and she STILL didn't lean in to saying he didn't, because she wants justice.

(I'm not attacking you for your opinion by the way I just would like to present you with another side of this that you may not have considered)

[REALITY 75,883]

25 minutes ago, Economy said:

 

Here's the thing. If u wanna get back at someone, have some kind of vendetta or in this case a motive like a contract u wanna get out of...

 

Sexual assaults is probably one of the easiest things to make up. Or at the very least embellish (let's say one is indeed harassed to some degree so there's some truth to it but then puts it forward as full out rape)

 

The issue I have with this culture of believe the victim and cancel the rapist is that ppl will jump on it with no proof or regard for any possibility that one could be innocent

 

False accusations happen believe it or not and sexual assault is one of the easiest to make up out of the blue

 

However I'm not saying Kesha did this nor did I ever get that impression... I also think it's Beyonce insensitive to call her a liar. If ur not 100% certain about something u can still send support

 

But in terms of canceling someone or saying that it's so improbable someone would lie, it does happen so innocent till proven guilty is important

I have said this already many times in this thread: 2-8% of reported sexual assault cases are false.

Look, is there a possibility—even the slighest possibility—that Kesha made this up? I suppose. Anything's possible. However, I really don't believe she did. She's spoken about this countless times and each time she's spoken about it, it genuinely affects her. Unless she wants to win an Oscar for Best Actress or something, I just don't see her lying about something like this. 

[Economy 49,192]

9 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I have said this already many times in this thread: 2-8% of reported sexual assault cases are false.

Look, is there a possibility—even the slighest possibility—that Kesha made this up? I suppose. Anything's possible. However, I really don't believe she did. She's spoken about this countless times and each time she's spoken about it, it genuinely affects her. Unless she wants to win an Oscar for Best Actress or something, I just don't see her lying about something like this. 

That's more than high enough to require proof before any kind of conviction or "cancelling" especially in cases that ppl know nothing about. I'd hate to be in that 2% to 8% 

 

But in any case if u read my comment again more carefully i also made a generalized comment too not just Keshas case specifically because my quoted comment also went into generalizations we well

 

I did say I never got the impression Kesha lied.

 

[REALITY 75,883]

2 minutes ago, Economy said:

That's more than high enough to require proof before any kind of conviction or "cancelling" especially in cases that ppl know nothing about. I'd hate to be in that 2% to 8% 

 

But in any case if u read my comment again more carefully i also made a generalized comment too not just Keshas case specifically because my quoted comment also went into generalizations we well

 

I did say I never got the impression Kesha lied.

 

I never said that you said that she lied. You talked about a general instance --> I gave statistics about said general instance --> I brought it back to Kesha because this is what this thread is about. 

In any case, 2-8% is extremely low when discussing the "truth" when it comes to sexual assault cases. Take its inverse: 92-98% of sexaul assault cases turn out to be true. That's incredibly high for this argument that, "Oh, people can make stuff up! People can make stuff up about anyone/anything, so let's say Kesha may or may not have lied about what happened". Again, not saying that's what you specifically  said, but in a thread about Kesha, I have to point it out. 

My main problem with this argument is that it's incredibly unlikely that someone would lie about this. 

[Economy 49,192]

2 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

I never said that you said that she lied. You talked about a general instance --> I gave statistics about said general instance --> I brought it back to Kesha because this is what this thread is about. 

In any case, 2-8% is extremely low when discussing the "truth" when it comes to sexual assault cases. Take its inverse: 92-98% of sexaul assault cases turn out to be true. That's incredibly high for this argument that, "Oh, people can make stuff up! People can make stuff up about anyone/anything, so let's say Kesha may or may not have lied about what happened". Again, not saying that's what you specifically  said, but in a thread about Kesha, I have to point it out. 

My main problem with this argument is that it's incredibly unlikely that someone would lie about this. 

I'm fine with what ur saying as long as its in the context of not calling someone a liar or failing to give emotional support cuz they might be "lying" when trying to bring an assault like this to light if that's what u mean

 

My only issue is when ppl wanna cancel someone without proof or think the justice system (in terms of sentencing the accused) should automatically believe the victim and give the accused no benefit of the doubt

 

Some ppl do think that way and that I have an issue with

 

In the sense of generalized talk to the victim yes I agree that since in the majority of cases they are telling the truth, we should talk to them under the assumption they are telling the truth

 

I just mean not in court

[illySpencer 1,434]

1 hour ago, March34th said:

And also besides that, there's legit proof that he drugged her and raped her in her sleep. And she's been experiencing trauma and legit emotional and psychological pain for almost two decades now.

Someone who lied wouldn't be keeping this up for so long. ESPECIALLY after she had a chance to come forward and say he didn't rape her to get the charges dropped, and she STILL didn't lean in to saying he didn't, because she wants justice.

(I'm not attacking you for your opinion by the way I just would like to present you with another side of this that you may not have considered)

There is no legit proofs of what you said. But if you were there, please give your testimony to the court and help Kesha. Otherwise shut your mouth because this is defamation and it's punish by the law. You are outside the law here. 

[Economy 49,192]

3 hours ago, March34th said:

False accusations account for one of the tiniest percentages of rape accusations. And thats just ones that get reported.

Unless you have been raped or abused you will NEVER understand how much courage and intensity inside of you it takes to come forward. Most people NEVER come forward because the system is so rigged against victims because it doesn't take into account the physical or emotional after effects of a rape or assault.

Trauma is enough indication that a rape happened and its very hard to fake having trauma. It's very hard to fake physical health issues that come out of a rape. Its very hard to fake having insomnia, fear of intimacy, fear of men/women (depending on who raped who), its hard to fake having trauma and keep that up for years

So seriously its irrelevant to bring up the whole "well people sometimes lie" crap. Someone always says that whenever stuff like this happens and its getting really old.

We should applaud and encourage people to support survivors and people who come forward because again, you need to wrap your head around how minuscule the amount of false accusations are out there, and how much it actually takes to come forward and to even be heard.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is hard to apply to this in my opinion as well. There isn't going to be video or photographic/witness evidence of a rape in most cases and courts use that to get the rapist free and to in turn charge the accuser, it happens all the time and almost happened to me when I told my family and friends when my boyfriend raped me when I was 17. He threatened to take action against me because he knows he would win any lawsuit because the courts almost always take the side of the abuser, especially when its in gray areas such as marital or spousal rape, unconscious rape, or things like when someone decides they want to stop having sex after its been initiated, then the other party continues, and then technically rapes them because the consent has been removed.

Courts most of the time act like rape only happens when its some woman walking home alone at night who gets attacked. Most rapes happen by someone the victim already knows and trusts, or by members of their family, friend group, their spouse, or someone they trust.

After a rape or even general abuse happens, there's also often things like gaslighting which happen, where the rapist will convince the abused person that what happened wasn't serious, or wasn't rape because of X Y Z. Victims also often experience a period of amnesia where the event is either completely repressed or forgotten as a survival tactic. Or they will try to convince themselves that it wasn't as serious as it actually was, or hide it from loved ones or friends or the public out of fear. There's so many avenues rape happens in and that's why its such a difficult thing with the legalities, but we need to stop focusing on the tiny percentage of rape allegations that turn out to be false, all that does is triggers victims and silences people who have spoken up, or makes them look like liars. We need to focus on helping people who need help, and helping them seek justice if they want to go that route, and if not, we need to do everything we can to support them through their pain.

And also besides that, there's legit proof that he drugged her and raped her in her sleep. And she's been experiencing trauma and legit emotional and psychological pain for almost two decades now.

Someone who lied wouldn't be keeping this up for so long. ESPECIALLY after she had a chance to come forward and say he didn't rape her to get the charges dropped, and she STILL didn't lean in to saying he didn't, because she wants justice.

(I'm not attacking you for your opinion by the way I just would like to present you with another side of this that you may not have considered

All of ur arguments only emphasise how crappy a situation it is for a victim but it doesn't change the fact that because false accusations do happen, it would be a very slippery slope in court to just assume one is guilty

 

I don't see how it being a small percentage makes any difference. Even if false accusations are only 2% of cases ur seriously suggesting we should assume someone is guilty without proof and throw them in jail????

 

As for ur argument about it being difficult to come forward that has nothing to do with the false accusations because those are real cases that involve real emotional trauma

 

That argument is not relevant in the cases of false allegations

 

What I'm saying is, the victim telling the truth the majority of the time shouldn't be enough in legal aspects. Certainly not to convict someone

 

Anyone that actually thinks that way I think is falling way too deep into media rehetoric

 

As for encouraging victims to come forward yes of course. Even if they can't prove it they should at least try... And to shrug them off and accuse them if being liars is also not fair

 

But any crime should be proven for any kind of conviction. I really don't see how big percentage or small has any relevance here... If even a few ppl go to jail for something they did not do, do u not think that's a few too many????

 

Also I'm highly generalizing now, this is not specifically on Kesha. Again I never once got the impression she was lying and I never accused her of it

[JANNNNEEEEEEEE 141]

no words just tears 

[StrawberryBlond 14,684]

More information about Luke's creepy behaviour has come out since from other women. That's not coincidental. And to be honest, it's not like Kesha's gained that much from breaking away from him. She's had less success than she did when he was managing her, especially with her latest album. She's had nothing to gain and everything to lose since accusing him and has stood by her guns even when she was offered the opportunity to get out her contract if she dropped all the charges against him. That's why I believe her. Liars always choose the deal when offered, that's why so many of these accusation cases involving celebrities end up dropped or "settled out of court." They follow the money which suggests there was exaggeration or lies involved. But Kesha's never wavered all these years. I doubt a liar could maintain deceit this long. I thought MeToo would make more people likely to believe her now because it's all laid bare why women keep quiet for so long, continue to be in contact with abuser, etc. But alas, we're still no further forward. Sad.

[gagaxsebert 5,804]

Ok I’ve been reading everywhere that the defamations was ruled because of the TEXTS TO GAGA! Not because of the other allegations. 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

I'm not saying she didn't spread misinformation about Katy Perry to Gaga or whoever, as I recall it seems likely she did (Luke didn't rape Katy)

But its a shame that that was turned into defamation when it only got out into the public because of this overall court case in the greater context of her rape case... Wrong or right, I think that element of things is a bit ridiculous, and kind of emblematic of a bigger reason of why women just don't report rape often. It almost never works out for them.

 

[OBEY 57,109]

56 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

More information about Luke's creepy behaviour has come out since from other women. That's not coincidental. And to be honest, it's not like Kesha's gained that much from breaking away from him. She's had less success than she did when he was managing her, especially with her latest album. She's had nothing to gain and everything to lose since accusing him and has stood by her guns even when she was offered the opportunity to get out her contract if she dropped all the charges against him. That's why I believe her. Liars always choose the deal when offered, that's why so many of these accusation cases involving celebrities end up dropped or "settled out of court." They follow the money which suggests there was exaggeration or lies involved. But Kesha's never wavered all these years. I doubt a liar could maintain deceit this long. I thought MeToo would make more people likely to believe her now because it's all laid bare why women keep quiet for so long, continue to be in contact with abuser, etc. But alas, we're still no further forward. Sad.

As I said in one of my posts a few pages back, clearly there's lack of proof unfortunately and maybe it did happen but ****** won't be able to prove it because the system is, by default, against victims since they have to prove the criminal offense happened out of any reasonable doubt